LFS: “Local Fish Shop” Or “Lying For Sales?!” Is Your Store Legit?
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Tylermacdonald15
Active Member
Some people are saying that LFS should quarantine there fish. I don't think that's the stores job. It's unrealistic for them to hold fish for months. And even the few stores that do quarantine aren't doing the best job they could, they fish are usually being put into one system at different times with no precautionary steps. The best way to quarantine a fish is by itself or with others but all added at the same time. So when it comes down to it it's up to the buyers to quarantine there fish and make sure they live there full healthy life In there tank. In this hobby it's completely up to the one who is buying the fish to be responsible and do there own qt at home and make sure the fish is eating at the LFS before taking it home. Almost every LFS I've ever been in has showed at least some signs of sickness in there systems, which means if one fish has ich every fish in the whole store or in that system will have it. And yes if not treated in the coming months the fish could die. So it's up to you to treat ALL incoming fish coral and inverts and make sure they are as healthy as possible before putting them in your display!
bigredneck
Active Member
I have an lfs close to my home that is huge and has lots of stuff on hand. It is also very expensive and their livestock is never healthy due to improper acclimation and overcrowding in the tanks. The lfs I patronize is much further away, has a smaller inventory and is run by two guys that are hobbyists themselves. They are nice honest and easy to deal with. They do their best to keep prices as competitive as they can. This shop is Coral Connection in Sarasota Fl. I buy as much of my stuff from them as possible to try and keep my money local and support an lfs that is run by people who care about not only their customers money but the customer themselves.
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rworegon
Active Member
I have a LFS that I shop at when I can. I'm lucky that its only a couple of miles from my house. However, there is only one guy I usually deal with. He isn't the owner, or even the store manager, but has been working in the industry for more than ten years. He goes out of his way to be helpful and informative. If I ask a question and he doesn't know the answer he will tell me, and more often than not offer to do some research. He is always looking for new information and methods. This store has a holding system in the back that is actually two systems, one with copper and one without. Every fish that comes in goes into this holding system, gets freshwater dips and medicated dips for gill flukes and other parasites. Usually gets a deworming and will not be put out on the floor for sale till this guy is satisfied that it is healthy.
This guy has even fish sat for me while I was out of town. Four days for $20.00. I didn't worry about my tanks or fish the whole time I was away. He has had my Porcupine puffer in his medicated system for almost a month now because of ich. Both my 65 and 10 gal Qt's have fish in them and rather than having me start the QT over he has kept the puffer, fed him, dipped him, and generally nursed him back to health.
I have gained invaluable experience and knowledge from this guy. I have watched countless times as he has talked to customers and before a sale, asked about their system, the age of the tank, other fish in the system, and many times either flat out refused to sell a fish or strongly discouraged the purchase simply because he cares more for the well being of the fish than making a sale.
The other LFS I have used was strted by a guy who used to be one of the "garage" retailers. He started a store and has an almost "cult" following. However, the pressure of the new business and pressure to grow the business made him start to give into the "sell it now" mentality. He started to sell some sick fish, and almost wiped out several tanks as a result. He now has a copper system in the store. Growing pains I guess.
I am the kind of person that likes to see, hold, feel products before I buy. I would much rather support the local business than the online retailer. Sometimes that isn't possible though. My favorite LFS has oftem told me to order sometning online because they don't carry it, simply because they can't compete with the price point.
This guy has even fish sat for me while I was out of town. Four days for $20.00. I didn't worry about my tanks or fish the whole time I was away. He has had my Porcupine puffer in his medicated system for almost a month now because of ich. Both my 65 and 10 gal Qt's have fish in them and rather than having me start the QT over he has kept the puffer, fed him, dipped him, and generally nursed him back to health.
I have gained invaluable experience and knowledge from this guy. I have watched countless times as he has talked to customers and before a sale, asked about their system, the age of the tank, other fish in the system, and many times either flat out refused to sell a fish or strongly discouraged the purchase simply because he cares more for the well being of the fish than making a sale.
The other LFS I have used was strted by a guy who used to be one of the "garage" retailers. He started a store and has an almost "cult" following. However, the pressure of the new business and pressure to grow the business made him start to give into the "sell it now" mentality. He started to sell some sick fish, and almost wiped out several tanks as a result. He now has a copper system in the store. Growing pains I guess.
I am the kind of person that likes to see, hold, feel products before I buy. I would much rather support the local business than the online retailer. Sometimes that isn't possible though. My favorite LFS has oftem told me to order sometning online because they don't carry it, simply because they can't compete with the price point.
Kimberlee
Active Member
Exactly what I was thinking, it's really unfair to judge unless we are looking at the whole picture. Which from the hobby end is hard to do. And it is really apples and oranges guys. I have an order coming today from an online vender I use, and honestly if I were to compare any LFS w/ him they would fail big time. A lot of that failure wouldn't even be their direct fault. I say direct, because we all have choices and they are the only ones who can change their store. But w/ over head rent and all that a brick and mortar store is harder to keep going. (thx Obama, so happy about the next 3 yrs your going to be here)( sorry that was my rant for the day politically) and the taxes, fines, and other restrictions that brick and mortar gets really expensive. Which in my book isn't much of an excuse it shows poor planning at the start up. The online vender I use has high end live stock that my LFS says they wont bother w/ due to lack of interest by the customers. That right there kind of forces me to shop online, and I understand why.....all the rent and restrictions, but that's not my problem and the bottom line is the same.....if I want high end I have to go else where. So we can take shots at them all day or we as consumers can take a stand a boycott any store that is not up to par w/ what we want. And I have to say it.....THIS is not a cheap or easy hobby. Heck I would go even further to say if your in this hobby for more than a year, it's not just a hobby either, now w/ that said.....anyone who spends the kind of money we do on a hobby as it is called, deserves what they get if their not doing the research that is a must to have a tank. To complain that they gave you bad info or flat out sold you something you shouldn't of had....(oh this will probably get me banned) is like saying I am a moo cow that follows the trend and I can't think for myself so do it for me, and if your not right well than just watch out. And I'm not talking just online there are MANY good books out there, where most of the online info came from. What we find online is just regurgitation of the original info, which came from a book some where. So don't be a victim of heard syndrome and look into things, that right there will stop most if not all of what we're complaining about.
Eienna
5000 Club Member
Even though it was a small minority, it was amazing to me how many dirt bag customers a LFS can see. Everything from thieves to incessant hagglers. The ones who come in with expectations and ego and then get miffed when you tell them a fish or coral is too big/small/mean/nice for their tank or that they already have too many animals are great too. Lots and lots of those.
I think this thread/article should be re-titled: "What You Don't Know Can't Hurt You!!! (Right?): An Online Fish Store Promo"
Even the calls in this thread for LFS's to quarantine their fish are questionable in my experience. I bet the only experience anyone who's mentioned this has with QT is at home, and I bet almost no one has even that. QT must be some kind of magic bullet, right? Yeah, sure. It's not apples-to-apples in the first place to be able to make a comparison between online and and local shopping. The complainers here really, truly just don't know what they are complaining about. Then they try to compare that with some online experience at what is probably one of the best online establishments in the world which they've specifically chosen....also not apples-to-apples, but one's cheaper and you don't have to meet or get to know anyone when you shop there so obviously they are honest and perfect so there's nothing wrong with comparing them.
-Matt
P.S. Anyone else here generally a fan of things local wherever possible vs things imported or online? Speak up, especially about why!
I love to be able to go pick out the exact fish or coral I want. I can often tell if a fish is more dominant or more submissive, and patterns vary somewhat. I take it home gently inside of an hour or so instead of putting them through shipping...many of them are ready to chow down the first night.
ALL GREAT POINTS!!! I love this!
Of the 6 fish I have left, 1 came from Petco, the rest were from club members. The 4 that died were all from fish shops. In all honesty, I look at the stores, and online, but prices make local shops prohibitive, as does shipping for online purchases.
why do online vendors promote multiple purchase shipping discounts on fish..but the rule of thumb is buy one (or a pair/group) at a time?
If you get free shipping at say $100, they have enough profit to eat shipping at that point.
As for the multiple deal, qt takes time. Buy 5 fish put them in display at staggered schedule while the rest sit in QT
As for the multiple deal, qt takes time. Buy 5 fish put them in display at staggered schedule while the rest sit in QT
Good point on the staggering additions, though it may cause your QT to require extra attention/risk of one fish killing/infecting the rest. I guess having a room of QTs would be ideal, and I have that option, but someone wanting to save $$$ on multiple fish usually saves $$$ elsewhere (meaning they probably don't have 5 quarantine tanks at their disposal).
No they usually dont, but they can be kept communal in qt, and have staggered introduction to the display tank just a longer hold in QT for some than others. After all, the propholytic treatment phase should only last a few weeks, the bulk of qt is for observation rather than medication
What size QT would you recommend that is affordable to everyone but also allows for multiple specimens to live safely?
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Typical is a ten - 20 gallon tank with basic filtration and sand bottom.
Store space and maintenance is at a huge premium in stores, they can only do so much. Here in Florida a small stores operating costs are exorbitant, then add on top of that the running costs for example water changes, filters, RO/DI units, tanks, and lets not forget lighting, I know personally my electric bill increased $35 a month for my own personal tank now I could only imagine multiplying that by 50 tanks and then the usual business costs like a store lease etc... To suggest QT is a great idea however would put 90% of the stores here out of business and provide less options to their customers on where to shop, and the personal experience some of these shops have would disappear. Would the IDEA be nice, heck yea would it logistically work.. Generally speaking no.
rworegon
Active Member
You are right. I would say a 20 gal with bare bottom and pvc fittings for hiding spots. You don't need fancy lights, basic filtration is all thats required. I put an ammonia alert badge on the tank to monitor ammonia. If you are quarantining larger fish, or tangs, you might want to pick up a cheap used 40 breeder just for the extra space. I picked up an acrylic 65 for 10 bucks from a fellow club member who wanted it out of his garage that is working great for a sailfin and a kole right now. Using an old canister filter I had sitting around. Sitting on two nightstands I picked up from goodwill for $12. Total on the 65 gal QT, around $30 with the alert badge. QT doesn't have to be expensive or complicated.
sorry guys I mostly dont agree with the article. if a lfs is flat out lying to you than yeah there is a problem. at the beginning of the article it says ask ask ask but the real question is are they asking you questions! they should be asking you about your system and offering suggestions on the items they have that will work with your system.
around here lfs do qt there fish minimum of a couple weeks...(except petco) (but they all order from the same 2 places)
90% of the time even the pro's dont know what a coral really is, even the name dragon soul favia is totally wrong because its not a favia, but because the lfs calls it a favia I shouldnt trust there opinion?? any general lps info will tell you how to care for it.
and having a lfs hold a coral or fish for you? thats a joke! anyone who sells anything wont hold it, 99% of the time you hold a coral or fish and the person dosnt come back for it or comes back and dosnt want it anymore.
my first tank I went to petco picked up a 29g eclipse reef system, some crushed coral, 10# of rock and a bag of salt, not a bad little start except I didnt mention they also sold me 3 damsels a mandarin and a sohal tang (lol) I had bags of fish floating wile waiting for the dust cloud to settle in my tank! thank God I didnt lose anything! I did some research and got the mandarin eating frozen bought a 125g tank and its history from there (15years ago)
I am sharing this story because it wasnt the responsibility of the guy getting pd $7 an hr to stand there and bag fish. it was my own stupidity! I should have dont the research
I hate it when ppl push the blame off onto the next guy. but I guess you cant fix stupid
around here lfs do qt there fish minimum of a couple weeks...(except petco) (but they all order from the same 2 places)
90% of the time even the pro's dont know what a coral really is, even the name dragon soul favia is totally wrong because its not a favia, but because the lfs calls it a favia I shouldnt trust there opinion?? any general lps info will tell you how to care for it.
and having a lfs hold a coral or fish for you? thats a joke! anyone who sells anything wont hold it, 99% of the time you hold a coral or fish and the person dosnt come back for it or comes back and dosnt want it anymore.
my first tank I went to petco picked up a 29g eclipse reef system, some crushed coral, 10# of rock and a bag of salt, not a bad little start except I didnt mention they also sold me 3 damsels a mandarin and a sohal tang (lol) I had bags of fish floating wile waiting for the dust cloud to settle in my tank! thank God I didnt lose anything! I did some research and got the mandarin eating frozen bought a 125g tank and its history from there (15years ago)
I am sharing this story because it wasnt the responsibility of the guy getting pd $7 an hr to stand there and bag fish. it was my own stupidity! I should have dont the research
I hate it when ppl push the blame off onto the next guy. but I guess you cant fix stupid
then again qt causes more stress causing the fish to lose its slime coat. think of its slime coat as its immune system, without a healthy slime coat the fish will get sick and die
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rworegon
Active Member
When you purchase a fish its already stressed from capture, shipping, and usually overcrowding in the LFS display system. Letting the fish recover in a dimly lit, quiet environment, along with getting it eating good without competition for food or territory, rebuilding the slime coat, only makes sense to me. If the fish doesn't make it in this environment, it probably wouldn't make it in the display tank. I'd rather lose a single fish in QT than have that sick fish wipe out my entire reef. I used to think like you do till I lost 80% of my reef to a sick fish. This is a topic that will be hotly debated till the end of time. Some will always QT, some will think its unnecessary. Each must make their own decision based on what they believe.
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