InvaderJim
Chillin
Those of you who have your RO/DI unit in the garage where are you getting your source water from and where does your drain go? It seems my options are limited as my laundry room is on the other side of the house.
Let’s Mix it Up! Designing and Using a Water Mixing Station
- Thread starter dbl
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ReefCheef
Active Member
Where'd you get that hose!?My frankenstation. I love it!
ReefCheef
Active Member
If you were doing it over again, would you put the ball valves (#3 and #4 in your example) closer to the return pump T, or closer to the bulkheads on either tank? Which is more desirable for keeping out "leftover" water?
Let’s Mix it Up!
There is one undeniable fact in this hobby – WE ALL NEED WATER! In fact, two types of water. Clean fresh water (FW) run through a quality RODI system and the obvious saltwater (SW). Secondly, we all know what a water change is. This is not an article on whether or not water changes are required or necessary, nor is it an article to discuss frequency. Your research and ultimate reefing philosophy will determine those answers for you.
Water changes can be done using something as simple as a 5 gallon bucket. If that is how you currently do it, and you’re okay with that, you can stop reading and move on. But if you’re looking for something a little more formal, and might I add potentially easier, you may want to continue reading. I’ll try not to bore your too much!
My personal goal was to never lift another bucket again…simple as that. So I started searching the internet for ideas. Between Google, forums, Yourtube and Mytube, I quickly realized I didn’t need to recreate the wheel. There is a plethora of designs out there to choose from…pick one. Remember, imitation is the highest form a flattery!
The most critical component of making water is obviously the RODI unit. All I will say is, if you don’t have one yet, get one! I am of the opinion that having control of your water is vital. Making your own (nothing against LFS’s, I love mine) is about the only way to insure you know the exact quality of your water.
The Equipment
Subject to the design you choose, here’s a simple breakdown of what you will and/or may need:
The Location
- RODI unit you already have or will be buying (hint-hint)
- A shut-off valve and float switch – no flooding necessary!
- Water storage containers with lids – two of them preferably
- One for FW, and one for new SW
- These should be food-grade quality containers, preferably they will be NSF Approved
- Size determined by your needs/system capacity
- The grey Brute trash cans are very common and often used
- Although more costly, the water storage containers found online and in farm supply stores work nicely as well
- Plumbing
- I like to use good old PVC (we usually have some laying around anyway right)
- Ball valves, T’s, Elbows and Unions
- Connections – Plumbing in to container walls and/or tops
- Bulkheads for flat surfaces
- Uniseals for curved surfaces
- Pump for mixing
- If designed properly, you can use one pump for mixing and distribution
- Powerhead and Heater – resides in the SW container
- A switched Power strip for easy control (optional)
- Hose long enough to reach your display/sump/top-off reservoir
- Or if you have the ability to hard plumb to your display, even better.
Obviously this will be unique to your environment. My biggest suggestion is in a controlled environment, meaning it’s heated and/or cooled depending on your climate. If you’re lucky enough to have a fish room, then it’s pretty obvious! If not, then maybe it’s a spare closet, the laundry room, the garage or basement may work if temperatures are at least somewhat stable. Note: Garages and basements, particularly non-insulated ones, can cause issues with RODI unit production during extreme temperatures, so choose your space wisely.
You may have to get creative. In my case, my wife wanted me to redo the foyer. Through intense negotiations (which I rarely win) I was able to commandeer the coat closet that had become the dumping grounds for all things junk. I took that space, which happened to back to our laundry room. So she got a new foyer and I got the perfect spot for a mixing station. Use your creativity and you’ll be surprised what you can come up with.
One thing you do have to keep in mind is access to water supply and drainage. That RODI unit you already had or will be getting soon (hint-hint) doesn’t come with its own water! That’s why a laundry room works great. You’ll have both the supply and drain for the washing machine right there at your disposal.
The Assembly
By now, you should have already flattered someone by using their design, but here is a breakdown of the basics. To try to make this easier, the image below is a picture of mine just after setting it up. I’ve labeled things and will refer to this image moving forward.
The main idea of doing all this is to mix and move water, so at a minimum, your new mixing station should be able to:
You can see my RODI unit mounted above. The lettered items are “equipment” and the numbered items are “valves”. This is merely for reference and by no means the only (or best for that matter) way of putting together a mixing station.
In both containers, you’ll need a connection towards the bottom. In the SW container, you’ll also want one towards the top of the container. This will allow circulation within the container for mixing. Your containers will determine how this accomplished – uniseal or bulkhead.
- Transfer water between containers
- Pump/circulate water within the SW mixing container for well, mixing!
- Pump both FW and SW to the display and/or top-off reservoir.
- You will want to be able to empty the containers in case of prolonged power outage or a visit from Mr. Murphy - the inevitable pump failure.
The Operations – (Using the picture above for reference)
Your RODI system will produce FW and be stored in the first container A. You will use this FW for top-offs, as well as supply your second container B with water that will become your new SW after mixing. With this design, and the turning of a few valves, pump C does all the work. Said differently, no more buckets!!! So let’s move some water:
For discussion purposes, assume all valves are closed (like pictured) at the beginning of each task – represented by numbered items below. I would recommend closing all valves at the end of any task to lessen the chances of cross-contaminating the FW and SW. You will also need a hose with a ball valve on the output end. Again, if you can hard plumb to your display/sump/ATO reservoir, all the better.
Heating:
- Move FW to top-off reservoir in the stand under display (in my case)
- Attach hose to the outlet of valve 2 (there is a hose bib converter on the end of that valve)
- Open valves 2 and 4, turn on pump C to fill reservoir via hose
- Move FW to the SW container Bfor mixing
- o Open valve 1 and valve 4, turn on pump C to pump over to container B.
- Mixing new SW
- o Put salt into container B
- o Open valve 1 and valve 3, turn on pump C and begin mixing salt via circulation
- Editor Note: In my case, I built a shelf over my mixing station, so I purchased the hopper D to add salt. Totally unnecessary if you have access to the top of your container.
- Move SW to Display for Water Change
- Open valves 2 and valve 3, turn on pump C to pump SW to display via hose
- Empty Containers without pump due to power outage or visit from Mr. Murphy
- Attached hose to end of either valve 5 or 6, and open the valve. Gravity will do its thing
I have a heater inside container B. I only heat just prior to using the SW. Some will argue this is not necessary dependent on the quantity of your water change, which may very well be true. But since I have the heater already, I just try to match the display.
Water Storage and Continued Mixing:
This is another area of debate among hobbyists. We’ve all seen the threads asking “How long can I keep mixed saltwater?” And “Should I keep it mixed”. There are far too many choices/options to discuss here. Me personally, I mix up about 50 gallons at a time. I mix and heat just prior to performing a water change.
When it comes to storing your RODI water, the important factor is to keep it sealed as tightly as possible. Very simply put, RODI water has been stripped of all things bad, and if allowed, it will try to grab those bad things back! So an air tight lid is best and no stirring necessary.
Over time your containers interior may build up some nasty’s and need to be cleaned. An annual cleaning (or more often if necessary) is recommended – let vinegar be your friend.
Extras
You may have noticed on my station a couple things under the RODI unit. In addition to a powerhead and heater, I also have a salinity monitor and thermometer inside the SW container. I didn’t want to drill a hole in the lid, so I came up with this.
Are there fancier ways of doing this, sure? Did I have this stuff already lying amongst my fish stuff, heck yes! It works great and is essentially air tight once the uniseal is capped with the PVC. Lastly, although I do not have a picture, all the interior items in my SW container are zipped tied to a long piece of PVC that rests inside the container. So if need be, I can pull that one piece of PVC out and bring all the equipment with it. That is the one thing I thought of myself!!!
Let your imagination run wild with one goal in mind…what you can do to make things easier on yourself. This hobby can be difficult enough on its own. Something as simple as a well-designed mixing station can make your weekly/bi-weekly/monthly/whenever water changes a little easier.
I hope this has helped at least give you an idea of the what’s and how’s of a mixing station. Don’t be afraid to put yours together. Having control of the water quality will be something you will never regret. Never lifting another bucket isn’t bad either.
Happy Reefing!
Great thread btw!
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Jgoal55
Community Member
Replying to an old post here, but what size are these containers? As for keeping it cool, Im sure you've found a solution by now, but maybe a chiller?I have decided to move my water station and clean things up a bit. The one issue i continue to struggle with is keeping the water cool in this Texas garage. I usually mix up about 25 gallons and have had it break 100 degrees before. I transferred the water to 5g buckets and cooled them inside while placing RO ice blocks in the remaining water. This process is not sustainable. What are yall doing to counter that?
Jgoal55
Community Member
First time reef2reef poster here (second if you count the one above).
First of all, @dbl, as has been said many times before, incredible thread. I just read through (almost) all 29 pages. Definitely one of the most helpful threads I've seen on any forum so thanks for getting it started and spurring the ideas. It made me join Reef2Reef, which I had been too lazy to do in the past.
So I am finally getting back into the hobby after about 7 years away. Some of that time I had a nano to hold me over. The rest of that time I was building a new home and luckily I was able to somewhat design my office around a "dream" tank.
The tank is approx a 210g which sits on my second floor (concrete slab reinforced during construction with tons of extra rebar!).
I am setting up my mixing station in the first floor garage underneath. I am also aiming to set up AWCs. So a few questions:
1) I notice there are several people who set up their storage tanks one on top of the other, but not as many as I would have guessed. Why don't more people gravity feed instead of pumping into the SW container?
2) As far as the AWC and ATO goes, I am wondering if it's best to draw straight from the SW storage container into the display, or if I should setup two smaller storage tanks under my tank (I have space for two 10-20g tanks) and then refill those when needed. Any feedback as to what would be best practice?
3) Lastly, knowing my display is about 210 and my sump (dreambox) holds about 40g, what size storage containers do you all recommend?
Thank you!
First of all, @dbl, as has been said many times before, incredible thread. I just read through (almost) all 29 pages. Definitely one of the most helpful threads I've seen on any forum so thanks for getting it started and spurring the ideas. It made me join Reef2Reef, which I had been too lazy to do in the past.
So I am finally getting back into the hobby after about 7 years away. Some of that time I had a nano to hold me over. The rest of that time I was building a new home and luckily I was able to somewhat design my office around a "dream" tank.
The tank is approx a 210g which sits on my second floor (concrete slab reinforced during construction with tons of extra rebar!).
I am setting up my mixing station in the first floor garage underneath. I am also aiming to set up AWCs. So a few questions:
1) I notice there are several people who set up their storage tanks one on top of the other, but not as many as I would have guessed. Why don't more people gravity feed instead of pumping into the SW container?
2) As far as the AWC and ATO goes, I am wondering if it's best to draw straight from the SW storage container into the display, or if I should setup two smaller storage tanks under my tank (I have space for two 10-20g tanks) and then refill those when needed. Any feedback as to what would be best practice?
3) Lastly, knowing my display is about 210 and my sump (dreambox) holds about 40g, what size storage containers do you all recommend?
Thank you!
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dbl
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Sorry...not on very much anymore since taking the tank down. Thanks for the kind words and I'm glad it helped you and presumably others. As to your questions, I'll give my $.02 and let others chime in.
My first mixing station was in fact two stacked Brute cans and did in fact gravity feed the SW Brute. So if you have room and the desire, go for it. But remember, if you want to pump water to a reservoir at or near the tank, you'll likely need to pump it if you don't want to do the bucket thing.
As to the ATO and/or the AWC, I personally wouldn't trust pumping directly from the large storage containers. I know, people will say you can put safeguards in place but Mr. Murphey pretty much ignores safeguards, at least for me. If something was going to get stuck on and keep pumping, I'd rather do it from something less than 55 gallons (at least in my case). Again, just my opinion.
Jgoal55
Community Member
oh no. Sorry to hear you took down tank. Or not.
Much less stress that's for sure. No doubt in my mind this is a masochist Hobby. Lol.
thanks for the advice. That’s kind of what I was thinking. In a worst case scenario a 20 gallon spill is much less bad than a 55g spill.
on that note, do you think 55 gallons is enough of a storage container for my system? (250 total volume)
as for the pump, I still plan on having one for sure as I need to get water to the second floor, I was just thinking for the purposes of filling the salt water container, gravity filled would be much easier (turn a valve and done). But yes, the pump would still be used to get water to the display sump.
One last question, do the semi translucent containers like the ones available on tank depot, etc, lend them selves to more algae growth than something dark like a Brute?
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dbl
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I think you're okay with the 55g containers...that's a little over 20% of your total, especially since you're setting up an AWC system. That's my $.02 anyway.
As to the clear containers, my guess is if they are stored in an area that gets a lot of light (read direct sunlight) on a normal basis, it may make a difference. I can't say I ever noticed any algae growth in mine and they are stored in our laundry room, which has a window.
It’s all about preference I went with 100% of tank volume for each so I have 2 250 gallon rotos in my basement. With auto water changes it lasts me 1 month
Jgoal55
Community Member
So to be clear (I failed math), you have a 250g tank correct?
is that total system volume or just display? Also, how much water do you change with your daily WC?
my total system volume is about 250. I’d like a month supply but not sure I have the room for it.
total system volume is 250
120 display
60 gallon frag tank
30 gallon refugium
100 gallon sump
This is my first system. Then actually I have a second which is 300 gallon display and 75 gallon sump. both systems are connected to the 250 gallon roto containers for auto water change. So technically I’m at half not 100% sorry. But these are the biggest I could fit into basement so would have got them anyways
To answer your next question how I figured it was by %. I’d like to do 10% a week or like i usta do manually was 20% every other week. So I broke it down 10% a week is 1.42% a day. And 1.42% of 250gal is about 3.5 gallons. So I do 3.5 gallons a day on both systems each
So 3.5 a day x7 days a week is 24.5 then times 4 weeks that about 100 gallons min. With no room for salt would have to fill to rim to even get the 100 gallons.
So with my 2 set ups to get a month I had to get 250 gallons to make it work
For my 210 I use two 65 gallon tanks along with AWC and also have a quick disconnect and hose if I really need to do a large water change fast.
MissingYuengling
Community Member
What kind of hose are you connecting to that pinned connector/ball valve in the middle for your water changes?Just going to leave this picture here. I cannot thank this group enough for all the knowledge I've been able to gather along the way. This project certainly would not have come out looking this good (if I do say so myself) without this thread!!
Thanks
BigBoi5680
Community Member
What quick disconnect fittings are you using? And can you post a pic of the hose end as well? I am trying to figure out a quick disconnect setup for my mixing station as well. Originally I was looking for a plastic quick disconnect that would work with my Python hose, but its not working out to well for me lol.For my 210 I use two 65 gallon tanks along with AWC and also have a quick disconnect and hose if I really need to do a large water change fast.
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