Kalkwasser question

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I think part of that may come from a misconception of kalk.
From this video: Reef Agriscience, Kalkwasser part 3 @ 1:18min

I tried to have an email discussion with Chris about some misinformation he was posting about kalkwasser causing calcium issues. He was clearly not open to thinking about the chemistry.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Why do you not want to share? I've in the past asked simple questions and you give such odd answers that make no sense to this simple mind. I've just come to the realization that why should I entertain a second question just to have me guessing and or try to comprehend what you said? It's not the first time Randy. I've brought it to your attention before and yes you were easier on us. Giving more simplistic, detailed info. Just saying, and not trying to undermine what your doing in this community, but you got to remember none of us have a chemist degree and at times you do need to sit back and put the shoe on the other foot as if you were the one asking a question. Cool?

Could you enlighten us a little bit on a few different ways of dosing? I mean there is a couple different ways, one way just to boost pH, and then there's another way where you're going to maintain calcium and alkalinity. Brad can use kalk to boost pH to a point without affecting his alkalinity correct? He may not get the results he wants or expects, but at least he's getting a bump in the right direction. I honestly don't think that he would have an issue using lime water to raise his pH, and even at that he can adjust it after a few days of testing to see where his alkalinity lands. I think he said he runs his at 7.5 so if adding lime water to the mix takes him up to 8.5 which is better in my opinion, then why shouldn't he do it? Even though he doesn't have a high demand he can certainly peg the alkalinity while boosting the pH am I wrong? He can also just dose after lights out to help hold a higher overall nightly pH and then off when lights on and the photosynthesis kicks in and starts to consume the access CO2.

Brad also has bird's nest Coral and a few other SPS and with only having a .2 consumption rate seems very odd to me. It's possible he doesn't have his lights anywhere near where they should be set for the corals to be growing properly. I honestly don't think he would be an issue and I think it would be a fun little science project for him to do overnight. Something as simple as doing a gravity fed slow drip overnight with a non-saturated solution might be something he could try without messing with the chemistry of the tank.

Heck I did it myself and when I seen the benefits I ordered everything so I could do a controlled dose and I've chosen to do 24/7 and haven't regretted it one bit.

Not sharing?

I have given recommendations of how to use kalkwasser and how to raise pH many hundreds of times.

IMO, kalkwasser should be dosed to maintain your alk target. That might be a lot of kalkwasser, as it is for Chris and as it was in my tank, and it might be a small amount, as it is in some other tanks. In the former case it gives a good pH boost. In the latter, not so much. Of course it is fine for the OP to try out kalkwasser and watch the alk and ph. I was just giving my opinion that, like the example I posted above, it is unlikely to have a big pH effect for him. I may be wrong on that.

The ways to raise pH include dosing hydroxide for needed alk, fresher air to the room, outside air to a skimmer, CO2 scrubber air to a skimmer, more photosynthesis (as in a refugium), perhaps lit on a reverse light cycle, reducing organic carbon dosing, in the cases of tanks with low aeration in a room with normal air, increasing aeration, and raising the alk.

Certainly, one can raise or lower their alk target any time they want. But there are reasons folks may have specific alk targets for reasons unrelated to pH. Everything else the same, raising alk from 7 to 8.5 dKH will boost alk by about 0.1 pH unit.

 

[jonelder68]

What about a hang on refugium? Are you trying to fix ph 24/7 or just at night? Either way a refugium might help you out and adjust photo period to your needs.

 

[jonelder68]

Put some peace lily pots in your tank room as well. Sounds crazy but my childhood tank still at parents house has tons of great filtering plants in the room and has always been stable 8.2ph. Has a large refugium on the tank as well.

 

[Brad Coughlan]

What about a hang on refugium? Are you trying to fix ph 24/7 or just at night? Either way a refugium might help you out and adjust photo period to your needs.

I mean that might work, but I don't know if this is the most popular options for nanos with low pH. A co2 scrubber would be good but like I said before my skimmer isn't compatible with any

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Put some peace lily pots in your tank room as well. Sounds crazy but my childhood tank still at parents house has tons of great filtering plants in the room and has always been stable 8.2ph. Has a large refugium on the tank as well.

Never thought of that, but I can see how that would work

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Never thought of that, but I can see how that would work

Seems logical, but both a simple analysis and detailed scientific studies show it doesn’t.

There is far too little photosynthesis in houseplants to have a useful effect. It takes a greenhouse to be useful.

Think of it this way. Plants need to add about as much mass each day as you consume in foods to offset the CO2 you exhale. That does not happen in any normal home.

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Seems logical, but both a simple analysis and detailed scientific studies show it doesn’t.

There is far too little photosynthesis in houseplants to have a useful effect. It takes a greenhouse to be useful.

Think of it this way. Plants need to add about as much mass each day as you consume in foods to offset the CO2 you exhale. That does not happen in any normal home.

True..

Well, as for the co2 scrubber, I am unsure how to go about it as my skimmer uses an external pump that pushes air into the skimmer, so hooking it to a scrubber would be impossible. Any suggestions?

 

[jonelder68]

Never thought of that, but I can see how that would work

No idea how effective both would be…just spitballing some ideas

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

True..

Well, as for the co2 scrubber, I am unsure how to go about it as my skimmer uses an external pump that pushes air into the skimmer, so hooking it to a scrubber would be impossible. Any suggestions?

You can force the air through a scrubber. No reason it needs to be pulled.

 

[KStatefan]

True..

Well, as for the co2 scrubber, I am unsure how to go about it as my skimmer uses an external pump that pushes air into the skimmer, so hooking it to a scrubber would be impossible. Any suggestions?

Install the scrubber between the air pump and the skimmer

 

[jonelder68]

Seems logical, but both a simple analysis and detailed scientific studies show it doesn’t.

There is far too little photosynthesis in houseplants to have a useful effect. It takes a greenhouse to be useful.

Think of it this way. Plants need to add about as much mass each day as you consume in foods to offset the CO2 you exhale. That does not happen in any

Seems logical, but both a simple analysis and detailed scientific studies show it doesn’t.

There is far too little photosynthesis in houseplants to have a useful effect. It takes a greenhouse to be useful.

Think of it this way. Plants need to add about as much mass each day as you consume in foods to offset the CO2 you exhale. That does not happen in any normal home.

You have not met my mother or seen her house Randy lol! It’s a green house. She’s a plant hoarder. Or is it a hippie? Either way…

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You have not met my mother or seen her house Randy lol! It’s a green house. She’s a plant hoarder. Or is it a hippie? Either way…

But as evidence of efficacy, one would need to see what happens to pH in the same home with no plants.

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Install the scrubber between the air pump and the skimmer

Is this possible? The scrubber I looked at only had 1 intake on it. Where it sucks from the bottom and goes into an airline that goes to the skimmer

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Is this possible? The scrubber I looked at only had 1 intake on it. Where it sucks from the bottom and goes into an airline that goes to the skimmer

You’d need to attach an airline to the bottom entrance somehow, or get one where you can.

 

[jonelder68]

But as evidence of efficacy, one would need to see what happens to pH in the same home with no plants.

agree. But yes very unlikely as your correct would take a jungle to contribute much.

 

[jonelder68]

Is this possible? The scrubber I looked at only had 1 intake on it. Where it sucks from the bottom and goes into an airline that goes to the skimmer

BRS has several inline scrubbers…

 

[jonelder68]

BRS has several inline scrubbers…

In one side, out the other

 

[Salty_Northerner]

That is advice based on an opinion I do not share.

My apologies, I thought there was something you didn't want to share publicly as it may not be safe for the public to be dabbling in.

So what's the deal with Chris then? He hammers the idea that alkalinity doesn't matter? Also not to reply to an email, is their a truth he doesn't want to entertain? I may have needed to sit back and re-think alot before giving you the idea of me replying as I did. Sorry about that.

That's the problem with the internet and others, myself included. I litterly take what I research or been told how to this, and how to that and roll with it.

So about the few different methods of just boosting pH with kalk. The online store I deal with gave me some advice that you can dose kalk and just get a pH lift or dose for cal/alk increase. I'm not a chemist and I'm dabbling in amounts of powder to use. I reached out to Hans from TM and said I like kalk but the idea of not having the traces bothers me as I've been a fan of AFR for a year now. I was told to see how much AFR it takes to go from 7 to 8 dkh and that's your dose when doing kalk. I know he's a busy guy and didn't pursue any more details.

Now with that aside, again I didn't intend to disrespect you whatsoever. I know ppl have opinions and yes some can be a bit misunderstood.

So this brings me to a touchy question as I know your feelings about the product Boost pH? Couldn't Brad get away with it as Brightwell makes the claim it doesn't raise alk? I know you were on the warpath some time ago with a few companies but I never seen what became of it.

It's also my nature to challenge ppl when I don't see the answer clearly in front of me

 

[Salty_Northerner]

0.2dKh daily uptake is less than what it uses, it is probably less. And you're right in saying lighting is the issue. I do have another thread on this, but to give an example I moved a stellata to see the back side of the coral that was oriontated at an angle such that it was quite shaded completely dead and bleached. I still see growth on it, but only on the base where it is encrusting onto the rock. My plating monti also has grown a decent amount, but it seems to grow then stop growing, then waits a while and grows again, repeat. There is no constant rate of growth, the same can be said for my other corals including GSP. Except for most of the SPS, my other corals are doing fine and look good, but just grow extremely slow. It's just demotivating to be honest, as this hobby takes up a fair amount of time just to have prettymuch stagnent growth. I have 4 things I have my eyes on to help improve it, kalk (which the efficieny of that seems to be being debated on here), some form of co2 scrubber, aminos for corals and maybe an AI prime light.

Is that the skimmers design to use an air pump or your own contraption? Picture says a thousand words

What light are you using right now?

Also my apologies on other posts and hope to not derailed it to much. Randy can clean it up if he feels the need for it.

I'd trade you plating Monti anytime you want. I can't sell the stuff locally and sadly just toss the pieces away. It grows like a weed. Grows into the glass and pushes its base rock off its base and even though I just snap pieces off it's only 3-4 days and I see it's starting to mend and start growing again. My take on aminos are simple, yes they're good but without A you don't get B. As example my theory is if there's something else hindering growth then are the aminos going to help? I don't really know but even when I was bottomed out at 7.76ph and on a good day I'd get 8.1 things still grew. Do I use aminos? I did and still do. I used Brightwell Coral amino and seen no effect on my corals. I'm using Acropower now and not seeing anything different. So now I'm on a different path using Aquaforest life source mud. I did the first dose actually last night and have high hopes for it. Example, I seen things last night that's never been displayed before in my system. Today things are looking well but also the lights are still in ramo up mode. Maybe your corals are lacking something else like some of mine are.

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