Jaubert deep gravel as part of new system

[HomebroodExotics]

Depends on your definition of Jaubert

I would personally call that an undergravel filter.

 

[Hot2na]

@Hot2na , Talking about the sand bed height and plenum height, is this something dependable on the tank size that could be eventually reduced for smaller pico / nano?

4" is about what you want to achieve denitrification..thats why I prefer taller tanks...

 

[Hot2na]

Depends on your definition of Jaubert

None of Jauberts systems use REVERSE flow or shallow beds. thats my definition.and HIS as well

 

[Subsea]

None of Jauberts systems use REVERSE flow or shallow beds. thats my definition.and HIS as well

Jaubert Monaca State Aquarium circulated water from the Mediterranean Sea. Like I said; depends on your definition. I operated Jaubert plenum with 6” dsb of aragonite for more than 20 years.

In a mature reef aquarium, denitrification is of little importance. However, if denitrification is your goal, a dsb is not necessary for denitrification.

The Reef Aquarium, Vol. 3: Science, Art, and Technology​

Julian Sprung identifies “close coupling’ as the process in which nitrificicatuon & denitrification happen in close proximity of each other in a reef tank.

 

[Subsea]

Thanks good to hear opinions both ways. I should add that it will be easy to access the back of the sump as the sides of the cube stand will be removeable panels. So it is very easy to do this as a trial and if I was not happy at any stage I could dig out all the gravel almost as easily as in a free standing tank. Have not ruled out some live rock spaced above the gravel bed in the back part of the sump.

Steve

Steve,
Adding quality live rock to an unlit sump is a cryptic refugium because of how cryptic sponges recycle coral & algae byproducts. Coral exudates of DOC are mostly lipids & proteins while algae exudates of DOC are mostly carbohydrates. Cryptic sponges consume DOC & POC (particulate organic carbon) at such a high rate their body mass would double every 12 hours except for sloughing off carbon rich detritus that feeds the microbial loop.

Because of the biodiversity of consumers in the microbial loop, nitrogen is in scarce supply in a mature reef tank. For that reason, I dose ammonia to keep up with nitrogen demand. I see little point to denitrification in a mature reef tank. I use multiple nutrient pathways to recycle nutrients thru diverse food webs.

 

[Hot2na]

Jaubert Monaca State Aquarium circulated water from the Mediterranean Sea. Like I said; depends on your definition. I operated Jaubert plenum with 6” dsb of aragonite for more than 20 years.

In a mature reef aquarium, denitrification is of little importance. However, if denitrification is your goal, a dsb is not necessary for denitrification.

The Reef Aquarium, Vol. 3: Science, Art, and Technology​

Julian Sprung identifies “close coupling’ as the process in which nitrificicatuon & denitrification happen in close proximity of each other in a reef tank.

The plenum does way more than just denitrify..since you referred to Goeman's earlier , go back and read all he stated the plenum does. As you are setup currently -reverse flow ,shallow bed-this thread is not where you want to be, Paul B has a whole lot to say about reverse flow/shallow bed somewhere on this forum..look it up.

 

[Subsea]

“This thread is not where you want to be”.

@Hot2na
How do you know where I want to be? You may not want me here because I don’t agree with your assumptions that DSB is required. I have read numerous peer reviewed articles on the science of DSB and I see no need from the point of reef biochemistry. As a habitat for certain fish, dsb has its place.

 

[Hot2na]

Jaubert Monaca State Aquarium circulated water from the Mediterranean Sea. Like I said; depends on your definition. I operated Jaubert plenum with 6” dsb of aragonite for more than 20 years.

In a mature reef aquarium, denitrification is of little importance. However, if denitrification is your goal, a dsb is not necessary for denitrification.

The Reef Aquarium, Vol. 3: Science, Art, and Technology​

Julian Sprung identifies “close coupling’ as the process in which nitrificicatuon & denitrification happen in close proximity of each other in a reef tank.

“This thread is not where you want to be”.

@Hot2na
How do you know where I want to be? You may not want me here because I don’t agree with your assumptions that DSB is required.

Wrongo ! If you do not have anything to relate about your experiences during the 20 yrs running a jaubert plenum-good or bad ... then you are in the wrong place ..we are discussing the jaubert plenum method here ..Not reverse flow shallow bed ..that is discussed in detail elsewhere, and perhaps something you have to say about your experiences using that method will be of use in THAT discussion..

 

[Subsea]

Wrongo ! If you do not have anything to relate about your experiences during the 20 yrs running a jaubert plenum-good or bad ... then you are in the wrong place ..we are discussing the jaubert plenum method here ..Not reverse flow shallow bed ..that is discussed in detail elsewhere, and perhaps something you have to say about your experiences using that method will be of use in THAT discussion..

If you were the OP, I would agree with you.

 

[Hot2na]

SUBSEA: I think what you're trying to do here is discourage people from using the Jaubert method. Just like the additive and high end equipment making companies tried to do when Goemans wanted to popularize it back in the day.. It's so simple and nearly bulletproof when properly set up - that it could put most of those companies out of business if widely used.
you seem to want to to jump on here and spew technical jargon all day and confuse people...

Too bad Dick Perrin of tropicorium is no longer around.. He used all kinds of variations of the jaubert method over the yrs and ran a very succesful coral operation .Same story with GARF back in the day...

 

[Subsea]

SUBSEA: I think what you're trying to do here is discourage people from using the Jaubert method. Just like the additive and high end equipment making companies tried to do when Goemans wanted to popularize it back in the day.. It's so simple and nearly bulletproof when properly set up - that it could put most of those companies out of business if widely used.
you seem to want to to jump on here and spew technical jargon all day and confuse people...

Too bad Dick Perrin of tropicorium is no longer around.. He used all kinds of variations of the jaubert method over the yrs and ran a very succesful coral operation .Same story with GARF back in the day...

As with most serious hobbiest, I research peer reviewed articles. In the span of 52 years, I have adopted techniques from numerous sources. I modeled Dick Perrin’s coral greenhouse system in 20’ by 40’ greenhouse in Austin, Tx. Many ways to skin the proverbial cat.

There are many easy ways to operate a successful reef tanks. The main reason I reduced sand-bed depth down to 2” is because I saw little diversity of sand bed detrivores in coarse media that was prescribed in numerous interpretations of Jaubert Method. So instead, in 75G display, I went with oxygenated water pumped into plenum/false bottom/ug filter. For diversity of micro fauna & fana I purchase diver collected live rock and live sand. To complete diversity of detrivores, I operate a cryptic refugium with miracle mud at 1/2 deep. Over a period of 25 years, mud depth increased to 3/4” and is crawling with soft bodied worms whose larvae feed hungry mouths.

 

[Subsea]

As with most serious hobbiest, I research peer reviewed articles. In the span of 52 years, I have adopted techniques from numerous sources. I modeled Dick Perrin’s coral greenhouse system in 20’ by 40’ greenhouse in Austin, Tx. Many ways to skin the proverbial cat.

There are many easy ways to operate a successful reef tanks. The main reason I reduced sand-bed depth down to 2” is because I saw little diversity of sand bed detrivores in coarse media that was prescribed in numerous interpretations of Jaubert Method. So instead, in 75G display, I went with oxygenated water pumped into plenum/false bottom/ug filter. For diversity of micro fauna & fana I purchase diver collected live rock and live sand. To complete diversity of detrivores, I operate a cryptic refugium with miracle mud at 1/2 deep. Over a period of 25 years, mud depth increased to 3/4” and is crawling with soft bodied worms whose larvae feed hungry mouths.

@Hot2na
Note last paragraph in original post:

“Anyway what to people think, useful addition to the system or witchcraft? Big enough to make a difference with an 1000L /250 USG tank? Opinions either way are welcome.”
Steve


Steve

 

[Hot2na]

useful addition to the system... is my vote

 

[Subsea]

useful addition to the system... is my vote

I also agree.

Each person has there style of reef husbandry and that is integrated into there hands on approach. I graduated from Texas Maritime Academy in 1975 as a marine engineer and have a Class V certification in municipal wastewater treatment. I got paid to train people to stir S.H.I.T. I understand bacteria chemistry. While bacteria are the microbial overlords, there are many more components to a healthy, vibrant reef system and reef biochemistry is more complex than municipal waste water and activated sludge (bacteria based). Algae is second tier of biofiltration and cryptic sponges are third tier of biofiltration as it is a process that converts coral & algae waste into energy rich carbon (detritus) that feeds the microbial loop which carries live food to hungry filter feeders, including coral.

PS. If you want scientific data on what happens in a dsb with a plenum, @Lasse is your go to person. He installed numerous dissolved oxygen probes to record oxygen gradient thruout his reverse flow dsb. Lasse retired from municipal waste water treatment and operated Sweden‘s National Aquarium. He is active on this hobby forum.

PSS: My favorite quotes by Lasse is his definition of Expert: as someone who has made every possible error in a specific area

And

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