Is it charcoal or Carbon ?

vetteguy53081 · May 11, 2023

Years ago, we used what was called charcoal in our corner filters and the type of material changed and was then referred to as carbon. Carbon is now recognized as an effective media which removes toxins, discoloration, odors, and organic material which reduces both nitrates and phosphates preventing growth of algae and slime through absorption. Its a media that is often overlooked , yet effective and beneficial but can at times cause issues with tangs and HLLE.
It however reduces disease by lowering organic levels as a member of chemical filtration and solidifying bacteria's in the tank.

Question is:

Do you use Carbon media- why- which do you use and what benefits do you see?

I for at least two decades have use alternatively ChemiPure Blue and ChemiPure Elite.
Why- not only did I sell it in my LFS exclusively but also used them in my store displays and the benefits I see are reduced phosphates, crystal clear water, running mixed reef tans, low Toxin levels and ease of use they come in a ready to use pouch.

PLEASE LETS DISCUSS WHAT WE USE AND WHY AND NOT MAKE THIS A TOPIC OF WHAT IS JUNK, WHAT IT COSTS AND SUCH

exnisstech · May 11, 2023

I run it 24 /7 in my larger mixed reef tank. I use it because I have quite a few different types of coral as well as bubble tip nems. I also notice the water is clearer in that tank. I'm not committed to a brand but prefer the larger pellets as they seem to allow more flow without plugging. I know a lot of people swear by brs rox and while I understand the very small pellets allow more surface area it always turns into a clump and restricts flow when I use it. I've started mixing it with the larger pellets just so it doesn't turn into a waste of money.

vetteguy53081 · May 11, 2023

exnisstech said:
I run it 24 /7 in my larger mixed reef tank. I use it because I have quite a few different types of coral as well as bubble tip nems. I also notice the water is clearer in that tank. I'm not committed to a brand but prefer the larger pellets as they seem to allow more flow without plugging. I know a lot of people swear by brs rox and while I understand the very small pellets allow more surface area it always turns into a clump and restricts flow when I use it. I've started mixing it with the larger pellets just so it doesn't turn into a waste of money.

I agree with large pellets as they absorb and more surface area is a benefit

fodsod · May 11, 2023

I keep a bag of generic carbon in the sump just to keep the water clearer and help reduce any toxins that may get into the tank. It's more of a catch-all (if anything) for me. Just seems to be a low/no risk filtration media that is inexpensive to keep in the water all the time.

I'll probably switch to ChemiPure Blue now that I've read what @vetteguy53081 stated that's what he uses. Seems a better long term option than my cheaper carbon that takes 10 gallons of RODI water and 20 minutes to rinse clean

.

Dburr1014 · May 11, 2023

I don't use it very often. I have a tang and tbh, don't notice much of a difference.

I'm definitely not a fan boy of chemipure/chemipure elite.

I can mix my own for a fraction of the cost. Why pay more for the packaging??

jda · May 11, 2023

I use GAC from time to time. Chemipure is not just carbon. I would put Chemipure in a different class than just GAC alone.

I disagree with the sentiment that GAC causes HLLE - or at least all of it does. I have read his study and respect Jay, and also the zoo that chimed in, but they are using a type of carbon that nearly none of us use and Jay used a fish that is not all that suited for captive life. I have never had any of my display fish develop HLLE and I even had A. Bahanius in a tank that never had carbon on it and it got HLLE in a QT tank that eventually got better, but it happened during the first few months likely out of stress (I am guessing). If anything, this could be a use thing... but avoid lignite carbon, wash it and don't let it make more dust and everybody seems fine. It seems more likely that there is something in the coal-based carbons that might have caused the HLLE than just it being an activated carbon... or that it takes GAC and some other stress issue for HLLE to develop. There are just too many people who use GAC that have no signs of HLLE to conclude that GAC is the problem alone. I have tangs going on 20+ years that have no signs of HLLE anywhere.

FWIW - there are many different types of carbon. I mostly use coconut shell anymore - not dusty, easy to use and works great. I had a 5 gallon bucket of the ROX .8 and I hated using it although it worked great - just too small for me and got everywhere. GAC can be made from coal products, shells, nuts, etc. Some people swear that this one or that one is terrible and this one or that one is great, but many people like ROX and nearly nobody tells anybody what kind is in there before they crush it all up and poop out those little pellets. Let's not lump all GACs into one bucket.

In the end, rinse GAC well, don't let it tumble and you will be fine. I pack it into a reactor and keep it tight so that it does not move.

jda · May 11, 2023

Also, a few decades ago, somebody spoke about GAC over time. You only really get about a week or good use before the media becomes covered with organics and can not longer have much water penetrate it. Those who stick sacks/bags in a low-flow area likely are not doing anything after a week or two and might benefit from a shake & rinse or replacement.

00W · May 11, 2023

Very good topic to discuss.
Has become controversial as well.
Thoughts are it only lasts days before exhaustion.
I use in a media reactor and change once a week.
I use the larger stuff. Bulk from premium aquatics. Works well.
I also have never had a fish with HLLE. And I keep mine forever.
Thanks for the topic.

vetteguy53081 · May 11, 2023

jda said:
I use GAC from time to time. Chemipure is not just carbon. I would put Chemipure in a different class than just GAC alone.

I disagree with the sentiment that GAC causes HLLE - or at least all of it does. I have read his study and respect Jay, and also the zoo that chimed in, but they are using a type of carbon that nearly none of us use and Jay used a fish that is not all that suited for captive life. I have never had any of my display fish develop HLLE and I even had A. Bahanius in a tank that never had carbon on it and it got HLLE in a QT tank that eventually got better, but it happened during the first few months likely out of stress (I am guessing). If anything, this could be a use thing... but avoid lignite carbon, wash it and don't let it make more dust and everybody seems fine. It seems more likely that there is something in the coal-based carbons that might have caused the HLLE than just it being an activated carbon... or that it takes GAC and some other stress issue for HLLE to develop. There are just too many people who use GAC that have no signs of HLLE to conclude that GAC is the problem alone. I have tangs going on 20+ years that have no signs of HLLE anywhere.

FWIW - there are many different types of carbon. I mostly use coconut shell anymore - not dusty, easy to use and works great. I had a 5 gallon bucket of the ROX .8 and I hated using it although it worked great - just too small for me and got everywhere. GAC can be made from coal products, shells, nuts, etc. Some people swear that this one or that one is terrible and this one or that one is great, but many people like ROX and nearly nobody tells anybody what kind is in there before they crush it all up and poop out those little pellets. Let's not lump all GACs into one bucket.

In the end, rinse GAC well, don't let it tumble and you will be fine. I pack it into a reactor and keep it tight so that it does not move.

There is coal, coconut nut shells or wood baked in a process known as pyrolysis. When I used straight carbon, I saw HLLE development in a hepatus and sailfin tang. At 24 tangs (25 as of today) using chemiPure - ive seen no signs. There are different formulas/type of media- Just trying to establish who is using what and why its their choice.
iS THERE A CORRELATION- hard to say

Reeferbadness · May 11, 2023

jda said:
I use GAC from time to time. Chemipure is not just carbon. I would put Chemipure in a different class than just GAC alone.

I disagree with the sentiment that GAC causes HLLE - or at least all of it does. I have read his study and respect Jay, and also the zoo that chimed in, but they are using a type of carbon that nearly none of us use and Jay used a fish that is not all that suited for captive life. I have never had any of my display fish develop HLLE and I even had A. Bahanius in a tank that never had carbon on it and it got HLLE in a QT tank that eventually got better, but it happened during the first few months likely out of stress (I am guessing). If anything, this could be a use thing... but avoid lignite carbon, wash it and don't let it make more dust and everybody seems fine. It seems more likely that there is something in the coal-based carbons that might have caused the HLLE than just it being an activated carbon... or that it takes GAC and some other stress issue for HLLE to develop. There are just too many people who use GAC that have no signs of HLLE to conclude that GAC is the problem alone. I have tangs going on 20+ years that have no signs of HLLE anywhere.

FWIW - there are many different types of carbon. I mostly use coconut shell anymore - not dusty, easy to use and works great. I had a 5 gallon bucket of the ROX .8 and I hated using it although it worked great - just too small for me and got everywhere. GAC can be made from coal products, shells, nuts, etc. Some people swear that this one or that one is terrible and this one or that one is great, but many people like ROX and nearly nobody tells anybody what kind is in there before they crush it all up and poop out those little pellets. Let's not lump all GACs into one bucket.

In the end, rinse GAC well, don't let it tumble and you will be fine. I pack it into a reactor and keep it tight so that it does not move.

I have an Emperor Angel that had HLLE 2x. Was able to heal this both times with extra nutrition - specifically Seaweed - which i guess he was lacking and then developed HLLE. I don't for a minute believe that HLLE is caused by carbon as i've seen both the cause (lack of seaweed/veggies in this fish's diet ) and the cure

jda · May 11, 2023

If you are just after types, I have used coconut shell and ROX since I cared enough to remember. I probably used lignite and bituminous in the past - in fact, probably impossible to have avoided it a few decades ago.

Troylee · May 11, 2023

fodsod said:
I keep a bag of generic carbon in the sump just to keep the water clearer and help reduce any toxins that may get into the tank. It's more of a catch-all (if anything) for me. Just seems to be a low/no risk filtration media that is inexpensive to keep in the water all the time.

I'll probably switch to ChemiPure Blue now that I've read what @vetteguy53081 stated that's what he uses. Seems a better long term option than my cheaper carbon that takes 10 gallons of RODI water and 20 minutes to rinse clean .

Use tap water it’s fine..

GARRIGA · May 11, 2023

Used ChemiPure in the 90s. Changed it only when water turned yellow. No tangs. Can’t say whether it causes HLLE. Now considering ROX 0.8 since it’s cheaper and wrap after socking in 50 micron filter pad to reduce it getting clogged.

When I’ve used ChemiPure I’ve rinsed it in tap water hoping it would remove detritus on the surface to extend life. Wondered if it could be soaked in bleach to remove clogging from biofilm or detritus. Seems logical to me. Rather not be changing carbon every week.

jda · May 11, 2023

I rinse with tap water too. You can also buy types of carbon that are less dusty. You can also put carbon in a mesh bag and shake it outside and downwind to get lots of the dust out first.

vetteguy53081 · May 11, 2023

I too rinse with tap water.

PR_nano · May 11, 2023

Normally use the chemipure blue nano packs in my Nuvo 20. Purchased the elite since my phosphate are high. Hope it helps lower them while getting the benefits of the carbon.

vetteguy53081 · May 11, 2023

PR_nano said:
Normally use the chemipure blue nano packs in my Nuvo 20. Purchased the elite since my phosphate are high. Hope it helps lower them while getting the benefits of the carbon.

Elite does a great job with po4

jda · May 11, 2023

I know that this is slightly off topic, but that GFO in the ChemiPure is likely exhausted in a day or two if it gets any kind of decent flow. If you change water or otherwise lower your water-level phosphate, the GFO in the ChemiPure will release po4 back into the water. It is best to use it quickly and get it out.

Hats_ · May 11, 2023

I use carbon every now and then but no longer than 12 hours, after that you dont see the difference anymore and it just soaks up stuff that makes no difference if its there or not (in my experience) I make sure that it is always ready to go in a media bag hanging over the sump. I also have one bag for each tank and i periodically change whats in the bag. I also rinse it with tap water