ICP testing nessesary or marketing?

[paintman]

None of this is a problem. Don't blame it on Moonshine. Shipping is a problem these days. I have no failure points. I make sure I have what I need on hand.

I was not trying to bash Moonshine. I wanted to go the Andre/Moonshine route until I sent my ICP test in and never got the results back. Only to get a run around/ blame game from ICP Cali. and Germany. I learned the hard way ($45) theres just to many possible failure points from my door, to Cali,, to Germany, back to my computer.

Without an ICP test, the Moonshine method is like throwing hand grenades into your tank.

 

[Timfish]

Helpful but I'd say it's best use is on a frequent basis so long term changes can be tracked. ICP isn't without it's critisisms though and it's accuracy may not be the best. See Rich Ross' article here:

Skeptical Reefkeeping 12: Triton Lab ICP-OES Testing of a Certified Artificial Saltwater Standard

From ReefsMagazine By Rich Ross and Dr. Chris Maupin At MACNA 25 in Denver, the potential for the new ICP-OES aquarium water testing by Triton Lab in Germany made many saltwater hobbyists swoon. Th…

packedhead.net

 

[RGoltz]

I don't do water changes, so I think it's what I need. Right now I just dose all of them based on a preset ratio decided by tropic marine, but my usage doesn't match that ratio. Being able to address just the elements I need is a big plus.

And I don't care if people have been in the hobby for 20 years and never needed them. I've been in the hobby over 10 years and things have gotten much better in just that time. I don't need a lot of things, but it sure does make it easier. And compared to water changes, dosing and using a refugium is actually cheaper on larger tanks. People were doing fine with carburetors also, but that didn't stop fuel injection from taking over.

Problem is, my bottles of tropic marine are near full and I hate to just not use them. Think I'll just stick with it and figure something out if one trace element gets too high.

Without getting into the details there are “some people” using other brands of supplements and then applying the Moonshine calculator and supplements. I’ve mentioned this to a friend that runs Zeovit as well, send an ICP and plug it into the Moonshine calculator to see where you are at. Consider that some traces are not being supplemented at all (likely flouride, rubidium, and a few others) so add these from Moonshine, use up your other elements, and then cutover when you are ready. The big advantage of Moonshine, of course, being that every element is individually controlled but you will be getting a taste.

 

[wtac]

@mindme I am personally glad you got the info you need to make adjustments to make your system thrive for you.

I am happy as punch to be able to retire from the "aquarium" biz and my "regular" job...sometimes "X" goes the other way around

Totally agree, more data the better to formulate and execute. With reef systems, one has to delve further into the human, habit, acuity, ability and budget...lets not forget that not every system is the same, etc, etc, etc.

Easier (for me) to tell the corporate client in my "regular job" that to do X, Y and X, you need A, B and C where it will cost this much. Project done and client gets immediate results.

NEVER that easy with aquarium clients. For me its an existentialist fight for me...what makes me happy with my passion and helping others or play politics not only with the client but within the office environment...pay out is BIG either way...fill the soul or bank account...

 

[WVNed]

I do one about every 6 months just to make sure nothing is going off the rails.

 

[RGoltz]

Anyone can do what they like, but you should be aware that there are several things in your water that ICP does not tell you about. You have no clue about dissolved organics in the water or how much of the trace elements are actually bio-available. So blindly trusting an ICP to not do water changes is a risk. If you want to slightly mitigate that risk make sure you run carbon and/or run ozone/UV. But you still might run into other issues.

Treat ICP as extra information beyond your own testing, not something you can just blindly trust to not make water changes etc.

I agree with these generalizations. However, I keep using the term system and it seems this is getting glossed over. I cannot speak to Triton but with Moonshine the system - or as I would say within my vocation “the architecture” - is not just performing an ICP. Accounting for both standards and best practices, the following are addressed:

• Testing protocol
• Dosing regiment (macro and micro)
• Biology (bacterial dosing, recommended nutrient levels)
• Secondary filtration (carbon, power filter)

The first two are standards, the next two are best practices. I would say that no water changes is also part of the system as this contributes to stability. I won’t quote the handbook here out of respect to the author.

So, if you are applying this system, the ICP is a requirement. Does an ICP any itself guarantee no water changes? Absolutely not and I don’t think anyone here is saying that. It is part of a comprehensive system. And as I keep saying, if the ICP is used as part of a system it absolutely provides value. It is even possible that at some scale the system - including the ICP testing - provides economic value.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

Is ICP testing really nessesary? Would love to hear the thoughts you have on this.

In my humble opinion ICP testing is a piece of the puzzle I which we are able these days to keep so many different types of corals and often in the same tank.

The older hobbyists maybe know that back in the days it was mostly leathers and anemones.

But in present day we can keep such a variety of species; and even without doing any waterchanges for years.

For me ICP testing is a great control to see (especially when corals are less happy and the main parameters are in check) if there is a build-up of heavy metals or, when my gionoporas and zoas are mad, to see if my trace elements are too low. Some of which you don't want to overdose and are hard to test with the regular home kits.

A part of the trace elements are already in all-in-one-dosing solutions. But in my personal experience, it is not enough. If you want to keep a mixed reef, the balance between all parameters amis very thin and that is why an ICP can give great insight in how to improve your water quality even more.

Can you reef without ICP testing? Absolutely. But you can hit a ceiling in what your tank can achieve and what kind of corals you can keep (for the long haul).

I have only been in the hobby for 5 years, with a 4 year old mixed reef tank with 0 waterchanges and a small 50g mixed reef, which is almost 5 months old. So maybe I am a newbie and disaster is waiting to be happen. But for now, I am going to the mail to post my next ICP to see if I can dare another few months without a waterchange

I wish it wasn’t so expensive. It would certainly be a great tool if it was cheap enough to do more often.

 

[MONTANTK]

I wish it wasn’t so expensive. It would certainly be a great tool if it was cheap enough to do more often.

I agree. I’m thinking of doing it maybe once per quarter or every 6 months. I find it very useful for identifying potential issues you may not be aware of