Ich with my new tang

[dogum99]

I just picked up a white cheek and yellow eyed kole tang last thurs. Both are doing really well. Noticed last night that the white cheek has ich on him. They are both in a 55g qt tank atm. I am thinking about hypo now while they are still strong. I know powder brown/blues seem to always have ich (white cheek is a brown variation). If I do the hypo will it get rid of the ich completely? I have had much luck with hypo in the past.

 

[fish&corals]

hypo does work as long as you have no corals in the tank .. i have a powder blue tang n she has had ick once ... found really the best way to keep her calm is turn all the lights off for the day if she looks like she is getting white bumps on her face or body .. tangs are really hard to keep ick off of .. they are a main carrier of ick .. they stress super fast and break out ..

 

[jaytizzle]

Whitecheek is not a powder brown variation. It is its own species - Acanthurus nigricans. They are very prone to ich and also have a very poor track record in captivity. I can speak firsthand on this as well since I lost two of them on separate occasions in the past.

Unless you're VERY skilled with QT procedures, I wouldn't recommend hyposalinity treatment. It is very difficult to maintain a low salinity (evaporation) and it must be down for 8 weeks. You'd be much better off to treat with Copper (MAKE SURE YOU GET A TEST KIT!) if it is a dedicated QT. Tangs usually respond well to copper IME and that would be the best way to get the ich off of him and keep him calm and eating.

Keep in mind, though, if you have ich in your DT that the fish is just going to ich up as soon as he gets in there and whitecheeks are not very likely to survive in an ich infested tank.

 

[dogum99]

I know they aren't a powder brown but from the same species of tangs (very similar) is what I was meaning. I have no ich in my dt. I always qt new fish. I have a good track record with hypo on fish.

 

[newsalth2o]

When my tang breaks out in ich the cleaner shrimp fixes her up quick. Breakout one day and clear in two as long as she'll visit the cleaner. Once ich gets into your DT is there any was to get it out without taking the fish out for 6 weeks to let the cysts die?

 

[jaytizzle]

When my tang breaks out in ich the cleaner shrimp fixes her up quick. Breakout one day and clear in two as long as she'll visit the cleaner. Once ich gets into your DT is there any was to get it out without taking the fish out for 6 weeks to let the cysts die?

What you're seeing is NOT the ich clearing up due to the cleaner shrimp. The cleaner shrimp help to keep the damaged flesh cleaned up but they don't help with the parasite itself. What you are seeing is the typical manifestation of the ich life cycle. It will clear up because the cysts fall off of the fish and begin the next stage of the life cycle. It's a vicious cycle to say the least.

As far as getting ich out of your DT, no it is not possible without removal of the fish for 8 weeks (not 6) if you have corals in your DT. If you have a fish-only system, you can treat through copper or hyposalinity (not recommended, copper is much better unless you have great husbandry skills) but be mindful that I wouldn't recommend ever putting inverts into a tank that has been treated with copper at any point. Once I treat a tank with copper, it is off-limits to inverts for me.

 

[ashtroid]

Try bumping up temp to around 80 hotter waters shorten there life cycle and second are you using a uv? Any extra cleaners like a shrimp or cleaner wrasse or coris wrasse

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[jaytizzle]

Try bumping up temp to around 80 hotter waters shorten there life cycle and second are you using a uv? Any extra cleaners like a shrimp or cleaner wrasse or coris wrasse

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Not true at all. Elevated temp works for freshwater ich but not saltwater ich. They're two completely different animals.

Cleaner shrimp and cleaner wrasses also do absolutely nothing to resolve the ich issue. Coris wrasses have nothing to do with it at all.

 

[newsalth2o]

Will UV have any effect on Ich? How about cyano? I have corals so no copper or UV in the tank it would have to be in the sump or on the return stream?

 

[ashtroid]

Not true at all. Elevated temp works for freshwater ich but not saltwater ich. They're two completely different animals.

Cleaner shrimp and cleaner wrasses also do absolutely nothing to resolve the ich issue. Coris wrasses have nothing to do with it at all.

Then explain to me why I have a 6" vlamingi in a 90 gallon a 5" yellow tang and 4" bi color angel 6" foxface and have never seen a drop if ich in my tank. Maybe ur shrimp or wrasse are lazy mine are not

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[Breakin Newz]

Then explain to me why I have a 6" vlamingi in a 90 gallon a 5" yellow tang and 4" bi color angel 6" foxface and have never seen a drop if ich in my tank. Maybe ur shrimp or wrasse are lazy mine are not

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I hope you have bigger plans for that vlamingi tang?

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[ashtroid]

Yes I will regime him when grows to large but for now he is fine

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[jaytizzle]

Then explain to me why I have a 6" vlamingi in a 90 gallon a 5" yellow tang and 4" bi color angel 6" foxface and have never seen a drop if ich in my tank. Maybe ur shrimp or wrasse are lazy mine are not

I'm not here to have an argument with you. You're wrong and here's just a small review of the biological facts that say it...
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"Cleaner Wrasse (Labroides Dimdiatus) and Cleaner Shrimp (Lysmata Amboinensis) eat Ich- WRONG. Wrasses and shrimp eat necrotic tissue, damage scales, and scabs. It has been well documented that the symbiotic “cleaning stations†in the reefs by wrasses and shrimps are there to help heal wounds from carnivore attacks, territorial fights, and other skin/scale injuries. It is possible that these cleaners might knock the parasite off the fish while doing this, but do nothing to control the reproduction and life cycle of Ich in your aquarium."
The Marine Ich Epidemic Joe Jaworski’s Weblog
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"If you care to read a study where they examined the gut contents of cleaner wrasse or Labroides dimidiatus you can find it in the Marine Ecology Progress Series, volume 197: pages 241-246 that was published in May of 2000, Alexandra S. Grutter. They found that the largest portion of their diet consists of gnathiids which is a parasite, but it is not ich. Parasitic copepods, non-parasitic copepods and scales comprised the remaining portion of the diet. They did not find Cryptocaryon irritans in the stomach contents of any of the fish they examined. Perhaps cleaner wrasse will eat some ich, but certainly not enough to affect a cure. They are going to exhibit their natural cleaning behavior whether the subjects being cleaned have ich or not."
from: Do cleaner shrimp and cleaner wrasses help with ich? - The Reef Tank
And if you want the article: http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps/197/m197p241.pdf
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"No, they can't cure ich for the simple reason that they don't eat ich. They feed on juvenile parasitic crustaceans, mucus, and dead skin; that last one being the most significant for hobbyists.

Because the actual ich parasite is located under the skin of the host, it's not susceptible to attack by cleaners except for the very short period when it's burrowing in. That naturally occurs in the wee hours of the morning while the cleaners are asleep, and only lasts a few minutes anyway, so in reality there is no period when cleaners can eat the parasite without wounding the fish. Even in studies where cleaners have been added to tanks and allowed to clean specifically during the attachment period, they ate so few of the parasites that there was no statistically significant change in parasite loads.

While they won't eat the parasite itself, the fact that the number of white spots is reduced isn't necessarily due entirely to coincidence. However, the white spots are not the parasite. The size of the parasite itself is at the low end of what the human eye can resolve. If you have 20/20 vision, are sitting close enough, and it's on a dark-colored fish, you could in theory see it, but just barely. The white spots are just nodules of damaged skin overlying where the parasite is embedded. Most cleaners will be more than happy to eat damaged skin, so they can directly reduce the appearance of white spots. However, removing the white spots does nothing to cure the fish of the parasite."
From: Can a cleaner wrasse cure ich? - Reef Central Online Community
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Is that enough for you or do I need to get some more info? Again, it is biologically proven that cleaner shrimp and cleaner wrasses (far better off left in the ocean, btw) do not consume marine ich to the point that they are a "cure" for anything. Are they a treatment method to help clean up the wounds on the fish, absolutely. Do they cure it? Absolutely not. I do and always will keep cleaner shrimp in my aquariums. I like them and like the fact that they help fish recover from disease by assisting with damaged tissue removal.

Also, there's no need to turn this into personal attacks. If you've got evidence or facts that prove, from a biological research standpoint, that cleaner wrasses and cleaner shrimp cure marine ich, please provide it.

 

[newsalth2o]

That was most informative and persuasive. Thanks, these are the kinds of myths that guys like you help to bust. I do agree the "lazy" comment was unfair. Sorry I about that. I think your post should be a sticky for ich. What is your opinion on UV?

 

[jaytizzle]

What is your opinion on UV?

Thanks for the kind words. As far as my view on UV, I don't think it hurts anything but I don't run them on my tanks. They certainly do kill any organisms, good or bad, that pass through the filter. They do not cure ich, though, and if you're running it for this reason you're wasting your money. The procedure to cure ich with UV alone is just unfathomable.

It's sooooo much easier to have diligent husbandry practices. Quarantine all fish for 30 days under copper before entry into the display system and you are over 99% sure that you will maintain an ich-free system. There are some exceptions to this, primarily being fish that do not do well with copper. It is a very good blanket rule, though. It's just too easy to set up a 20long or a 29g and quaratine all fish. You can leave the setup running or tear it down and set it back up when you get more fish to add. Almost any fish (other than very large specimens) will be fine in a tank this size for only a month. People will say this is too much of a hassle, but I speak from experience that nothing good happens fast in this hobby. I lost over $1500 in fish in two weeks due to a parasitic infection. I can guarantee that it will never happen to me again.