Ich? Velvet? HELP!

[Gophish1982]

So I noticed white patches or bumps on my tangs today. I had observed them in a QT tank for a few weeks before moving to my DT and had only treated with General Cure because I had noticed something dark on one fin of my white tail bristletooth the size of a grain of rice. They have been in my display for a few weeks now and just a couple days ago I noticed some white patches on it’s side fins. Last night I had the unfortunate event of forgetting to turn my return back on and that’s where my heaters are at. Temp got down to 69 degrees. Today all 3 or my tangs have the white patches on their fins and also small white dots on their body. Obviously something is wrong, but I’ve never delt with illness in my tank until now. Im thinking it’s Ich, but would like confirmation and advice!
I broke down my QT tank just 2 days ago after I tried to get 2 other fish through observation that died (maybe there was ich in my QT from these tangs and I didn’t know it)

I can get a 40 gal up in ready as quickly as I can get the water warm. Have a sponge filter that’s been in my sump for over a month. I have cooper power, Ruby reef, General cure at my disposal.

The tangs aren’t the only inhabitants though and one fish I have I’m particularly worried about. Here are the fish in my 130 gal
Powder blue Tang
Yellow tang
White tail bristletooth tang
2 clownfish
3 zebra barred dart fish
1 ornate leopard wrasse
LOTS of coral

I also have a small Fluval 13.5 that I’ve got 2 clowns and a yellow watchman goby in and a few BTA’s. I routinely use the same equipment to feed and clean their tanks.

I feel like everyone is going to need treatment and a fallow period in my DT’s. I’m extremely nervous with using copper since I haven’t done it before. The leopard wrasse worries me the most. If I need to set up separate QT tanks I guess I will if I have to as I feel all those fish in a 40 gal is going to be stressful!

give me your advice/suggestions! Here are some photos of the tangs, no other fish are showing signs of illness.

 

[vetteguy53081]

So I noticed white patches or bumps on my tangs today. I had observed them in a QT tank for a few weeks before moving to my DT and had only treated with General Cure because I had noticed something dark on one fin of my white tail bristletooth the size of a grain of rice. They have been in my display for a few weeks now and just a couple days ago I noticed some white patches on it’s side fins. Last night I had the unfortunate event of forgetting to turn my return back on and that’s where my heaters are at. Temp got down to 69 degrees. Today all 3 or my tangs have the white patches on their fins and also small white dots on their body. Obviously something is wrong, but I’ve never delt with illness in my tank until now. Im thinking it’s Ich, but would like confirmation and advice!
I broke down my QT tank just 2 days ago after I tried to get 2 other fish through observation that died (maybe there was ich in my QT from these tangs and I didn’t know it)

I can get a 40 gal up in ready as quickly as I can get the water warm. Have a sponge filter that’s been in my sump for over a month. I have cooper power, Ruby reef, General cure at my disposal.

The tangs aren’t the only inhabitants though and one fish I have I’m particularly worried about. Here are the fish in my 130 gal
Powder blue Tang
Yellow tang
White tail bristletooth tang
2 clownfish
3 zebra barred dart fish
1 ornate leopard wrasse
LOTS of coral

I also have a small Fluval 13.5 that I’ve got 2 clowns and a yellow watchman goby in and a few BTA’s. I routinely use the same equipment to feed and clean their tanks.

I feel like everyone is going to need treatment and a fallow period in my DT’s. I’m extremely nervous with using copper since I haven’t done it before. The leopard wrasse worries me the most. If I need to set up separate QT tanks I guess I will if I have to as I feel all those fish in a 40 gal is going to be stressful!

give me your advice/suggestions! Here are some photos of the tangs, no other fish are showing signs of illness.

Youre looking at ich and yellow with Heal and lateral line erosion (HLLE).
- What is age of tank?
- What type of water are your using (RO or tap) ?
-How were and how long were fish acclimated/introduced to the tank?
- What test kits are you using ?

With tank being new, unfortunately, you may have to set up another as a quarantine tank. The best ich treatment is copper-based medication. Rather than treating the main aquarium, move the sick fish to a bare bottomed quarantine or treatment tank. This should be aerated and have the same water conditions as the main aquarium.
Mardel Coppersafe from Fritz Aquatics treats both freshwater and saltwater ich, along with other diseases, including Velvet (Oodinium) and other external parasites. However, because it is a copper-based treatment made from chelated copper sulfate. To use Coppersafe, add 1 teaspoon of medication for every 4 gallons of water, or 1 cup of every 190 gallons. The solution will remain active in the tank for more than one month.
Cupramine, a copper-based treatment from Seachem, treats not only saltwater ich, but also other ectoparasites in freshwater and saltwater tanks. An ionic copper medication, rather than chelated copper, it is non-acidic and doesn't damage the biofilter bacteria. To use Cupramine, turn off UV filters and ozone filters, and remove chemical filtration, such as activated carbon. For every 10.5 gallons of water, use 1 mL of treatment, and then wait 48 hours. Repeat the treatment, and leave at this concentration for 14 days. Test the water for copper levels before redosing the tank.

>>>>> WHEN USING ANY COPPER IN WATER - HAVE A RELIABLE TEST KIT TO MONITOR LEVELS. IT'S A MUST <<<
Coppersafe will be your best bet treating for a full 30 days at 80.5 degrees

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So I noticed white patches or bumps on my tangs today. I had observed them in a QT tank for a few weeks before moving to my DT and had only treated with General Cure because I had noticed something dark on one fin of my white tail bristletooth the size of a grain of rice. They have been in my display for a few weeks now and just a couple days ago I noticed some white patches on it’s side fins. Last night I had the unfortunate event of forgetting to turn my return back on and that’s where my heaters are at. Temp got down to 69 degrees. Today all 3 or my tangs have the white patches on their fins and also small white dots on their body. Obviously something is wrong, but I’ve never delt with illness in my tank until now. Im thinking it’s Ich, but would like confirmation and advice!
I broke down my QT tank just 2 days ago after I tried to get 2 other fish through observation that died (maybe there was ich in my QT from these tangs and I didn’t know it)

I can get a 40 gal up in ready as quickly as I can get the water warm. Have a sponge filter that’s been in my sump for over a month. I have cooper power, Ruby reef, General cure at my disposal.

The tangs aren’t the only inhabitants though and one fish I have I’m particularly worried about. Here are the fish in my 130 gal
Powder blue Tang
Yellow tang
White tail bristletooth tang
2 clownfish
3 zebra barred dart fish
1 ornate leopard wrasse
LOTS of coral

I also have a small Fluval 13.5 that I’ve got 2 clowns and a yellow watchman goby in and a few BTA’s. I routinely use the same equipment to feed and clean their tanks.

I feel like everyone is going to need treatment and a fallow period in my DT’s. I’m extremely nervous with using copper since I haven’t done it before. The leopard wrasse worries me the most. If I need to set up separate QT tanks I guess I will if I have to as I feel all those fish in a 40 gal is going to be stressful!

give me your advice/suggestions! Here are some photos of the tangs, no other fish are showing signs of illness.

Sorry - that does look like ich, especially the spots on the pectoral fin of the PBT.

Observational quarantine doesn't help with ich - you need to either run coppersafe or hyposalinity, both of which tangs handle quite well.

At this point, there aren't a lot of good options. "Ich Management" is something that can be tried, but it fails in many cases. The idea is that if you run a really powerful UV, and keep the water in good shape and feed the fish well, the ich will be held at bay. Siphoning the bottom of the tank each night helps to remove the tomonts that will hatch out and reinfect the fish.

The best solution would be to pull all of the fish and hold them in a good QT for either copper or hypo, and then let your tank run fishless for ~45 to 60 days at 81 F. (if your corals can handle that).

Another option could be to move out all of your invertebrates for ~45 to 60 days and run hypo in your display tank.

Our current quarantine protocol is here:

Current Quarantine Protocol

2023 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[MnFish1]

First - welcome to R2R - and those are beautiful tangs!

If I just saw the pictures - I would have said Ich, and HLLE. But - question for @Jay Hemdal for the rest of the readers - and the OP -
1. for @Gophish1982 were the white lesions on the lateral line (if you don't know what that is - https://www.hackersreef.com/hlle-head-lateral-line-erosion-treatment/ - were they there before the temperature drop?
2. for @Jay Hemdal How quickly have you seen HLLE develop after a 'stress' - (clearly all of the tangs do not have the same lateral line lesions).
3. @vetteguy53081 and Jay have given you the best solution - which is to put back up your QT - and use copper. They are certainly beautiful fish.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

First - welcome to R2R - and those are beautiful tangs!

If I just saw the pictures - I would have said Ich, and HLLE. But - question for @Jay Hemdal for the rest of the readers - and the OP -
1. for @Gophish1982 were the white lesions on the lateral line (if you don't know what that is - https://www.hackersreef.com/hlle-head-lateral-line-erosion-treatment/ - were they there before the temperature drop?
2. for @Jay Hemdal How quickly have you seen HLLE develop after a 'stress' - (clearly all of the tangs do not have the same lateral line lesions).
3. @vetteguy53081 and Jay have given you the best solution - which is to put back up your QT - and use copper. They are certainly beautiful fish.

In our study, HLLE came on at its earliest when exposed to carbon dust at around 20 to 25 days.

I wasn't focused on the HLLE b/c the ich is the more immediate concern.

Jay

 

[Gophish1982]

Sorry - that does look like ich, especially the spots on the pectoral fin of the PBT.

Observational quarantine doesn't help with ich - you need to either run coppersafe or hyposalinity, both of which tangs handle quite well.

At this point, there aren't a lot of good options. "Ich Management" is something that can be tried, but it fails in many cases. The idea is that if you run a really powerful UV, and keep the water in good shape and feed the fish well, the ich will be held at bay. Siphoning the bottom of the tank each night helps to remove the tomonts that will hatch out and reinfect the fish.

The best solution would be to pull all of the fish and hold them in a good QT for either copper or hypo, and then let your tank run fishless for ~45 to 60 days at 81 F. (if your corals can handle that).

Another option could be to move out all of your invertebrates for ~45 to 60 days and run hypo in your display tank.

Our current quarantine protocol is here:

Current Quarantine Protocol

2023 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

Okay. So I am already heating up the water in my 40 gal. I plan to move the 3 tangs, 3 dart fish (fingers crossed on catching them), and 2 clowns from my big tank to the 40 gal QT and run copper power since that is what I already have. I really don’t want to run copper for the leopard wrasse. I wasn’t aware hypo sal would kill ich. Maybe sent up a second QT for the leopard and the fish from my small tank (2 clowns, 1 goby)? You mention running hypo in my display. Does that mean with the fish? Can corals/anemones live in hypo? I could move the wrasse to my small tank and just leave the other fish in there and lower the salinity. What is considered hypo? 1.018 low enough?

 

[MnFish1]

In our study, HLLE came on at its earliest when exposed to carbon dust at around 20 to 25 days.

I wasn't focused on the HLLE b/c the ich is the more immediate concern.

Jay

Yes - Agreed - I was just going for the issue that - the impression was that the lesions on the yellow tang were 'new'. IME - this would be abnormal for HLLE (unless the lesions were present before). Its a reminder when buying tangs - perhaps to look for early HLLE - and perhaps not to buy those fish.

 

[MnFish1]

Okay. So I am already heating up the water in my 40 gal. I plan to move the 3 tangs, 3 dart fish (fingers crossed on catching them), and 2 clowns from my big tank to the 40 gal QT and run copper power since that is what I already have. I really don’t want to run copper for the leopard wrasse. I wasn’t aware hypo sal would kill ich. Maybe sent up a second QT for the leopard and the fish from my small tank (2 clowns, 1 goby)? You mention running hypo in my display. Does that mean with the fish? Can corals/anemones live in hypo? I could move the wrasse to my small tank and just leave the other fish in there and lower the salinity. What is considered hypo? 1.018 low enough?

I think the suggestion for hypo salinity is more for the 'fish' - I would not put the corals through that - IME

 

[Gophish1982]

First - welcome to R2R - and those are beautiful tangs!

If I just saw the pictures - I would have said Ich, and HLLE. But - question for @Jay Hemdal for the rest of the readers - and the OP -
1. for @Gophish1982 were the white lesions on the lateral line (if you don't know what that is - https://www.hackersreef.com/hlle-head-lateral-line-erosion-treatment/ - were they there before the temperature drop?
2. for @Jay Hemdal How quickly have you seen HLLE develop after a 'stress' - (clearly all of the tangs do not have the same lateral line lesions).
3. @vetteguy53081 and Jay have given you the best solution - which is to put back up your QT - and use copper. They are certainly beautiful fish.

The yellow tang has had that line since I got him. I was told it was a biota yellow tang. I had read somewhere that it has developed from the way they are bred? I thought as it grew it might appear less. They get an excellent diet and my water is in suggested ranges. I did recently change out the carbon in the reactor but thought I rinsed it quite well.

 

[Gophish1982]

I think the suggestion for hypo salinity is more for the 'fish' - I would not put the corals through that - IME

I only have BTAs in that small tank that I could probably just move to my big tank if they won’t handle hypo.

 

[MnFish1]

This makes more sense (to me) - your tang had HLLE before - now it has Ich

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I think the suggestion for hypo salinity is more for the 'fish' - I would not put the corals through that - IME

Yes, in my second scenario I said it is possible to remove the invertebrates and run the DT itself under hypo - depends on what is easier; pulling the corals or the fish.
Jay

 

[Gophish1982]

Yes, in my second scenario I said it is possible to remove the invertebrates and run the DT itself under hypo - depends on what is easier; pulling the corals or the fish.
Jay

Thank you. So I think I’ll move my leopard wrasse over to my small tank with the 2 clowns and a watchman. I can easily move the 2 rocks that have the BTA’s on them to my big tank and get the couple of snails and conchs in there out. How long should I run hypo and what SG should it be? Do I lower it slowly?

 

[Spare time]

Thank you. So I think I’ll move my leopard wrasse over to my small tank with the 2 clowns and a watchman. I can easily move the 2 rocks that have the BTA’s on them to my big tank and get the couple of snails and conchs in there out. How long should I run hypo and what SG should it be? Do I lower it slowly?

You have to qt all fish. Not just the ones you clearly see the ich on. Otherwise you are just contaminating another tank

 

[MnFish1]

You have to qt all fish. Not just the ones you clearly see the ich on. Otherwise you are just contaminating another tank

Agree.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you. So I think I’ll move my leopard wrasse over to my small tank with the 2 clowns and a watchman. I can easily move the 2 rocks that have the BTA’s on them to my big tank and get the couple of snails and conchs in there out. How long should I run hypo and what SG should it be? Do I

Here is a post on hyposalinity:

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2021 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com

To be clear - ALL fish need to go through hypo or copper, even if they are not showing acute symptoms.

Jay

 

[Gophish1982]

Here is a post on hyposalinity:

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2021 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com

To be clear - ALL fish need to go through hypo or copper, even if they are not showing acute symptoms.

Jay

Thanks. I’ll do hypo with my small tank since I can get the anemones out easily. That way I can also avoid doing copper with my leopard wrasse. The tangs and dart fish in my big tank are gonna get moved to a QT and treated with copper. Thanks for your help. The only other worry I have is catching the dart fish. I am definitely going to have to move a HUGE part of my rock scape because they are living under it and it’s going to disturb the sand bed quite a bit.