Ich on Bio Balls?

[doozie]

Wow, I can't believe what I just did—looking for some reassurance.

So, exactly 62 days ago, my DT caught ich. I completely dismantled the tank to pull the fish into QT with copper treatment. A few fish didn't make it, probably due to the copper and age, but the rest are healed and doing fantastic.

I took this time to swap out the sump to a larger size and rebuild the plumbing. All is well.

I had some bio balls in the DT return, which I didn't really want in there anymore...

Without thinking, I'm like...oh, I'll just put these 2 small bio balls in the QT. What a dumb mistake, and I immediately took the 2 bio balls out.

With all that said, did I just restart the 76-day clock for ich?

 

[Sharkbait19]

Recent studies show that ich fallow only needs to be 60 days. I think you should be fine.
Besides, if the qt has been treated there should be no ich left to reinfect the dt.

 

[doozie]

Recent studies show that ich fallow only needs to be 60 days. I think you should be fine.
Besides, if the qt has been treated there should be no ich left to reinfect the dt.

Shoot, I realized I might not have been clear the bio balls were in the DT (original post updated).

Sounds like I should still be ok with the 60-day period? Potentially, can even put my fish back now?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Wow, I can't believe what I just did—looking for some reassurance.

So, exactly 62 days ago, my DT caught ich. I completely dismantled the tank to pull the fish into QT with copper treatment. A few fish didn't make it, probably due to the copper and age, but the rest are healed and doing fantastic.

I took this time to swap out the sump to a larger size and rebuild the plumbing. All is well.

I had some bio balls in the DT return, which I didn't really want in there anymore...

Without thinking, I'm like...oh, I'll just put these 2 small bio balls in the QT. What a dumb mistake, and I immediately took the 2 bio balls out.

With all that said, did I just restart the 76-day clock for ich?

No- theyre bacteria spheres and should be fine. Continue the clock which 76 days is up to you but 45-60 is sufficient

 

[MnFish1]

Wow, I can't believe what I just did—looking for some reassurance.

So, exactly 62 days ago, my DT caught ich. I completely dismantled the tank to pull the fish into QT with copper treatment. A few fish didn't make it, probably due to the copper and age, but the rest are healed and doing fantastic.

I took this time to swap out the sump to a larger size and rebuild the plumbing. All is well.

I had some bio balls in the DT return, which I didn't really want in there anymore...

Without thinking, I'm like...oh, I'll just put these 2 small bio balls in the QT. What a dumb mistake, and I immediately took the 2 bio balls out.

With all that said, did I just restart the 76-day clock for ich?

No- but its unclear actually what you did

 

[doozie]

No- but its unclear actually what you did

I put bio balls from the DT sump into the QT. No bio media in the QT for 62 days otherwise.

 

[MnFish1]

I put bio balls from the DT sump into the QT. No bio media in the QT for 62 days otherwise.

But you medicated the QT during that time

 

[doozie]

But you medicated the QT during that time

Yes, but I didn't know if newly adding the balls from the DT would re-infect the QT, essentially having to restart the copper treatment. I only treated copper for the first 4 weeks of the 62 days in QT, which would have slowly diluted with weekly water changes since.

I added the bio balls literally today, not at the start. Does this fact change anything? Sorry it was unclear.

 

[EricR]

I think you're saying you took bio-balls from your DT that had already been fallow for 62 days,,, then dumped them into your QT,,, correct?

So that's almost the same as if you had put the fish back into DT after it sat fallow for 62 days but with less "risky" surface area, right? (You just didn't make your goal of 76 days)

 

[doozie]

I think you're saying you took bio-balls from your DT that had already been fallow for 62 days,,, then dumped them into your QT,,, correct?

So that's the same as if you had put the fish back into DT after it sat fallow for 62 days, right? (You just didn't make your goal of 76 days)

Yes, that's exactly correct.

Now that I'm re-reading my original post, the 76-day clock starting over doesn't make any sense.

I guess the better question is, do I need to treat the QT again? Or, is the 62 days sufficient to migrate the fish back?

Sorry all for the confusion.

 

[EricR]

You probably pulled the bio-balls out of QT when you thought of this so the only risk would be "if" something was still attached/encysted on them after 62 days AND hatched (for lack of a better word) during the time they were in QT.

Risk seems pretty small to me but maybe search out the "current quarantine protocol" thread on here and see what the experts say about fallow periods. (I think most feel that 76 days is overkill anyway).

 

[doozie]

You probably pulled the bio-balls out of QT when you thought of this so the only risk would be "if" something was still attached/encysted on them after 62 days AND hatched (for lack of a better word) during the time they were in QT.

Risk seems pretty small to me but maybe search out the "current quarantine protocol" thread on here and see what the experts say about fallow periods. (I think most feel that 76 days is overkill anyway).

You nailed it—I took the bio-balls out within 5 minutes. I’ll search more but can’t seem to find a definitive answer on fallow period, everything from 45-60 days, 76 days, and some even stating 90 days to be safe. Seems like the only thing that “might” be needed is to potentially retreat copper to be extra safe. I don’t want to rip apart the tank again to get the fish out. Thanks for all your help.

 

[MnFish1]

You nailed it—I took the bio-balls out within 5 minutes. I’ll search more but can’t seem to find a definitive answer on fallow period, everything from 45-60 days, 76 days, and some even stating 90 days to be safe. Seems like the only thing that “might” be needed is to potentially retreat copper to be extra safe. I don’t want to rip apart the tank again to get the fish out. Thanks for all your help.

Sorry - I was confusing - I said 'no' as my answer - but then said It was a little unclear - IMHO - the answer is still 'no'. But - just to make sure - You had a DT - with bioballs. Some fish got ICH, you Put them in a QT tank and treated them. After 62 days - you added some bioballs for 5 minutes. Many people do a QT for 45 days - especially if at a higher temperature. The 76 days is based on a cold water study so - it's extremely possible that you are fine with what you did. However - no one here can answer for 'sure' IMHO. A protocol is a protocol. I THINK you're fine.

You are correct, though, to be ABSOLUTELY certain - you would need to repeat the QT fallow period. I wouldn't do that if I was in this situation however - but it has to be your decision

 

[Sharkbait19]

I agree that you should be fine. No need to treat again unless you really want to.

 

[doozie]

Sorry - I was confusing - I said 'no' as my answer - but then said It was a little unclear - IMHO - the answer is still 'no'. But - just to make sure - You had a DT - with bioballs. Some fish got ICH, you Put them in a QT tank and treated them. After 62 days - you added some bioballs for 5 minutes. Many people do a QT for 45 days - especially if at a higher temperature. The 76 days is based on a cold water study so - it's extremely possible that you are fine with what you did. However - no one here can answer for 'sure' IMHO. A protocol is a protocol. I THINK you're fine.

You are correct, though, to be ABSOLUTELY certain - you would need to repeat the QT fallow period. I wouldn't do that if I was in this situation however - but it has to be your decision

QT fallow period? Do you mean QT treatment?

Here's the full breakdown:

1. DT had an Ich outbreak 62 days ago.
2. I moved the fish to QT and started copper treatment immediately at 2.0 ppm.
3. I should note that I only treated copper for 2 weeks AND used a de-chlorinator to avoid ammonia spiking, which I'm reading today might have both been a mistake (time + additive).
4. I slowly started decreasing copper through weekly water changes after 2 weeks.
5. On day 62 (today), I moved 2 small bio-balls from DT to QT.
6. Within 5 minutes, I removed the bio-balls from QT (threw them in the trash).

#3 above is a new item that I just learned from scouring fallow period times on the boards today. Does the short 2-week treatment time and possible copper binding to the de-chlorinator highly affect the ich treatment outcome? Both the 2-week time and the de-chlorinator were advised to me by LFS.

I'm glad I posted here to learn that while the DT definitely had sufficient fallow time and the bio-balls are a non-issue, it's possible my copper treatment protocol might not be effective. Does that sound like an accurate final assessment? Would you retreat copper in QT knowing this new information?

 

[MnFish1]

QT fallow period? Do you mean QT treatment?

Here's the full breakdown:

1. DT had an Ich outbreak 62 days ago.
2. I moved the fish to QT and started copper treatment immediately at 2.0 ppm.
3. I should note that I only treated copper for 2 weeks AND used a de-chlorinator to avoid ammonia spiking, which I'm reading today might have both been a mistake (time + additive).
4. I slowly started decreasing copper through weekly water changes after 2 weeks.
5. On day 62 (today), I moved 2 small bio-balls from DT to QT.
6. Within 5 minutes, I removed the bio-balls from QT (threw them in the trash).

#3 above is a new item that I just learned from scouring fallow period times on the boards today. Does the short 2-week treatment time and possible copper binding to the de-chlorinator highly affect the ich treatment outcome? Both the 2-week time and the de-chlorinator were advised to me by LFS.

I'm glad I posted here to learn that while the DT definitely had sufficient fallow time and the bio-balls are a non-issue, it's possible my copper treatment protocol might not be effective. Does that sound like an accurate final assessment? Would you retreat copper in QT knowing this new information?

So the way it's supposed to work.
1. Take fish out of DT, treat with Copper at level 2.5 (depending on the brand you're using) for 30 days.
2. The display tank needs to be fallow - for 45- 76 days - depending on which protocol you're using.

So - on a scale of 1-10, the bioballs would be a 1. The time would be an 8 (i.e. you didn't treat long enough or at high enough a dose) as far as risk of reinfection IMHO

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I don't think that the bioballs are going to be a biosecurity problem, but your copper treatment was a bit deficient. I presume you used coppersafe or copper power? Those need to be dosed at 2.5 ppm for 30 days, not 2.0 for 14 days. When treating active infections, I even go a step further and dose for 30 days beyond the day that the last ich trophont was seen on the fish.

IMO - the fish themselves will be the biggest biosecurity issue here.

Jay

 

[doozie]

I don't think that the bioballs are going to be a biosecurity problem, but your copper treatment was a bit deficient. I presume you used coppersafe or copper power? Those need to be dosed at 2.5 ppm for 30 days, not 2.0 for 14 days. When treating active infections, I even go a step further and dose for 30 days beyond the day that the last ich trophont was seen on the fish.

IMO - the fish themselves will be the biggest biosecurity issue here.

Jay

Yes, I used coppersafe. I agree and will restart treatment immediately.

The only remaining concern is the QT is only 25 gal which has a sailfin, blue hippo, and melanurus. The wrasse is a juvenile, and the tangs are both about 4-5 inches long. No other fish and these three get along great.

Again, I'm really glad I posted a silly question to learn new essential information. Thanks all very much.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Yes, I used coppersafe. I agree and will restart treatment immediately.

The only remaining concern is the QT is only 25 gal which has a sailfin, blue hippo, and melanurus. The wrasse is a juvenile, and the tangs are both about 4-5 inches long. No other fish and these three get along great.

Again, I'm really glad I posted a silly question to learn new essential information. Thanks all very much.

Are you able to maintain the ammonia near zero in the QT? If so, and if the fish aren't fighting, they will be fine in there.

Jay

 

[doozie]

Are you able to maintain the ammonia near zero in the QT? If so, and if the fish aren't fighting, they will be fine in there.

Jay

Great thanks. Yes, I crammed as much live rock as I can in the HOB filter, and after about 40 days, the ammonia has remained at near zero since. I’ll definitely keep monitoring.