I purchased a Blue Tang -- Big mistake but not the end the world

[Tamberav]

30 days of copper going to kill a lot of fish and totally not necessary. Ask yourself how many fish you and others killed in quarantine.
How do you quarantine your inverts? Again, there is no way to irradicate ich in a system. They will always present. Keep your fish well fed and don't stress your system. There will be no ich.

you QT inverts by going fallow in a fishless frag tank. Not everyone does it but if more people did we would get less posts about aipastia and bryopsis too.

If you step into the disease forum there are tons did sick and dying fish and they are not in QT but in someones display.

Ich is generally not the end of the world. I agree. But we can’t say just keep your fish low stress and feed them well in a majorly overstocked 13g. The tank looks cloudy and not overly healthy. Doesn’t even look like there is proper sleeping or hiding spots for the amount of fish. So it’s just kinda crappy advice to say just keep low stress when it already isn’t being done.

Whatever upgrade he is getting needs to happen today as it’s going to take enough time to get up and running. He would be better off just buying a 180g and skipping the 55g as might as well buy once.

 

[Lyss]

Just because my view is opposite of you, doesn't mean I give the wrong advice. What is the goal of the forum? To kill lot and lot of fish unnecessary? How many fish did you unnecessarily killed in 30 days copper solution?
Forum Protocol???? LOL You think this forum is helpful by trash talking him???? Did I trashed talk him like many of you did?
My method works and effective. I help made life easy for lots of my friends.
I am not against quarantine and actually I do it as well but not the level some of you are doing. It's not necessary. My point I am trying to make is don't be tightwad over getting ich in the system because it's always there. Plus don't get on to guy putting a 2" regal in a 13.5 while the same person had a Naso Tang in his or her 180g or worse yet in a 120g.

For one I didn’t give my personal technique or opinion.

I feel I have tried to be even handed with advice and not sugar coat things, and did not as you say trash talk. Personally I do not like the way you’re laughing at me and acting like the protocol for QT put forward by the experts who run the forum is to be laughed at.

There have been many posts debating QT or no QT among hobbyists here, and those are a great place to debate methods and opinions. But when a new reefer comes making a ton of avoidable mistakes and wants advice I will point them to the disease forum protocols.

I won’t engage in this type of personal battle in this thread, so if you want to continue to argue with me that’s fine but I won’t be responding further.

 

[crazyreefergirl]

you QT inverts by going fallow in a fishless frag tank. Not everyone does it but if more people did we would get less posts about aipastia and bryopsis too.

If you step into the disease forum there are tons did sick and dying fish and they are not in QT but in someones display.

Ich is generally not the end of the world. I agree. But we can’t say just keep your fish low stress and feed them well in a majorly overstocked 13g. The tank looks cloudy and not overly healthy. Doesn’t even look like there is proper sleeping or hiding spots for the amount of fish. So it’s just kinda crappy advice to say just keep low stress when it already isn’t being done.

Whatever upgrade he is getting needs to happen today as it’s going to take enough time to get up and running. He would be better off just buying a 180g and skipping the 55g as might as well buy once.

I do understand how to acclimate inverts.
Yes, there are lots of dying fish and many die in QT as well unfortunately for not coppering correctly.
How can you not keep fish low stress in a 13g? I kept my regal in my the same fluval 13g for six months and the other in my 29g biocube for 1.5 years. No ich!!!! All my friends wanted both of them.
Keeping fish stress free is very easy. Feed twice a day with proper diet, keep water parameters good with superior filtration. No magic trick to it.
He needs to get ich under control is what I see. I love big tank and always have 1. Not everyone can afford 180g though. You are in the hobby. you know how much the hobby cost if not cutting corner which I will never do for the welfare of my pets.

 

[MnFish1]

Several people have answered - I haven't had a chance to read all of the replies. So - if some of this is a repeat - sorry!!!

First - you came to the right place for answers - welcome to Reef2Reef.

Second - You did what probably 90 percent of first time aquarium (fresh or salt) owners do - overstocked a tank. This is not only an issue from a waste perspective - but also the more highly stocked a tank is. the more likely that disease will spread quickly.

Third - The most important thing is disease treatment in the tang - and prevention in the rest of the fish. IIMHO. you should set up a hospital/QT tank for all of your fish - and treat with whatever copper product you wish - at the appropriate levels. following the ammonia, aeration, etc.

Fourth - Since you are quickly going to need to re-home the tang (their growth is extremely fast when young - and dramatically slows with age) - I would see if Petco will take them back. I doubt they will take a sick fish back - and if they do they may just discard it - so you can check with them - or try to treat.

Fifth - don't beat yourself up too much. In all honesty the Petco should have asked what kind of tank you were planning when they sold it - and if it had ich - shouldn't have sold it anyway.

Sixth - Not all Petco's are 'bad' - there is a petco in our neighborhood that has the best coral/etc than many of the LFS. It all depends on the management. Next time - try to talk to the saltwater manager - with questions - rather than a single employee. Also - often they will hold a fish that you've paid for - so you can observe it eating, for a week or so before bringing it home.

Lastly (sorry this is long) - can you show a picture of your tank and the tang - if you still have it?

 

[MnFish1]

PS - the CI can come and go - on and off the fish. It can look great one day - and dead the next. Some fish are more or less susceptible to CI - and many become immune (at least on a temporary basis). One key thing - I would NOT add any other fish to that tank. Unless all of them have been treated - even if they 'look ok' (besides its a little full already)

 

[MnFish1]

There's so much here, I missed that. And I feel like a lot of us are trying hard to be diplomatic amongst all this problematic stuff being put forward, so not speaking up about it all.

But yes, how does using boxed seawater keep you from having to top off? Are you topping off with more of the boxed water? That would cause salinity to creep up.

And I saw another poster mentioned the anemone in a just-cycled tank. Yes, not good. Too many fish, too many sensitive inverts in a new tank.

Did you use live or dry rock to cycle with? I'm not sure I remember if that was mentioned?

I think it's time to take a deep breath, you realize there were many mistakes -- now it's time to slow down, do a lot of research and make it right. Folks on this forum are great, and always here to help, but also doing your own research will get you far.

If you have a 13 gallon aquarium with a lid - there will be minimal need to top off - depending on how much water is evaporating. If he/she is taking out 20% or so weekly - and adding back saltwater (I don't know what SG the boxed seawater is) - it could easily be that a rising SG will not be as big a problem. but you're right - in time - it will be - as long as he is measuring he's probably ok.

 

[Lyss]

If you have a 13 gallon aquarium with a lid - there will be minimal need to top off - depending on how much water is evaporating. If he/she is taking out 20% or so weekly - and adding back saltwater (I don't know what SG the boxed seawater is) - it could easily be that a rising SG will not be as big a problem. but you're right - in time - it will be - as long as he is measuring he's probably ok.

Oh I get that, yes that’s right.

he specifically said that using the boxed seawater keeps him from having to top off, as if it’s a benefit of using that vs. mixing his own. It’s not the seawater in a box itself that’s doing that.

Could just be a miscommunication/misinterpretation.

 

[MnFish1]

A few things and please take it to heart:
API is perhaps the worse test kit out there and is notorious for false readings hence the low price for a master kit and has let down many reefers, You want Hanna or salifert. You likely have false readings why I placed Question marks

Cycling- 3 days is not enough for even Freshwater. You want to cycle with live rock and add liquid bacteria such as Dr Tims One and only and monitor ammonia levels during this period with a reliable test kit

Anemones are best placed in a tank that is mature and stable as they do not handle changes in parameters well.

For treatment- Ruby rally reef or Pro covers an array of issues and good to have on hand PLUS its reef safe

This is not entirely true. Many bottled bacteria products say - add bacteria and fish on day 1. I have done it MANY times. But - what you say is mostly true - since most people cycle tanks incorrectly. So - it depends on the method he used. If he used Dr. Tims ammonia - it would be unlikely to be done in 3 days

 

[MnFish1]

Most of the LFS recommend that particular saltwater test kit but I can see I've looked online for an instrument that is able to read most of the parameters of the water needed to keep a healthy kit I could not find any. Most are just temperature, PH, Salinity and for the most part I have all that covered with the instruments that I have. For the nitrate, nitrite and ammonia I've relied on the kit. I'll look into a better one. With that said, is it farfetched to say that due to the water changing that I've described that at the bare minimum, those 3 levels should be a more than acceptable levels?

API tests are notoriously 'wrong' if:

1. They are expired
2. They are not performed exactly as directed.

I only use API tests - tried hanna, tried saldiert - they are all the same - they are error prone (all of them). IMHO. the only problem / issue with API tests is that for example the alkalinity you can ready 8, 9, or 10 etc - not 8.2. Some people 'need' this type if accuracy - I have not found it necessary. I find many of the other tests extremely difficult to read color-wise.

 

[MnFish1]

LOL don't mean to hurt your feeling. I wasn't laugh at you. just thought it's fun that you said I don't follow forum protocol while others scolding the poor guy.
I responded to you only when you quote me. I won't answer back even you quoted me again. Have a great day! Peace.

Its fine to give opinions. One issue is that one problem (not necessarily you - but in general) is that a person comes to the forum with a specific question - and it gets into multiple philosophical debates about how one person vs another person vs another person - and it leaves the original poster totally lost. So far we've covered how to cycle, how to quarantine, what size tangs need, how old an anemone tank needs to be, etc etc - when the topic was how to treat a tang with CI.

 

[Lyss]

Its fine to give opinions. One issue is that one problem (not necessarily you - but in general) is that a person comes to the forum with a specific question - and it gets into multiple philosophical debates about how one person vs another person vs another person - and it leaves the original poster totally lost. So far we've covered how to cycle, how to quarantine, what size tangs need, how old an anemone tank needs to be, etc etc - when the topic was how to treat a tang with CI.

Agree w/this generally. My feeling is just that there are other things wrong going on that need to be addressed, and that was accomplished (heh).

I think that it’s always hard to decide if you want to be single-minded and just address the Q at hand and only that Q, or think like a good consultant and bring up other things — sometimes folks may even think they have one problem when the true problem is something different entirely.

 

[polyppal]

Also that’s not a jawfish. It’s a sand sifting goby.

In all fairness, petco probably didn’t know what it was either and labeled it as a jawfish

 

[TigNJaxx]

I got into the hobby about a month ago and unfortunately (fortunately?) I got a bit carried away and now I need to upgrade.

I started out with a 13.5 gallon salt water evo, skimmer, basically went the whole 9. 2 clown fish, anemone, 2 cleaner shrimps, a fire Shrimp, some snails, a sea orchid, a yellowhead jawfish, schooner dragonet. Oh, I also have a palm palm crab in the mix.

I do not mix my own water, I use Imagitarium Pacific Ocean Water since day 1 and purchase 10 gallons of it weekly for my water changes Every 7 days, and about a 20% water change every 2 days.

Salinity is always at 1.026 and params are always great. I purchased the a blue tang today to complete a total of 5 beautiful fish. I think I made a mistake... I did not know that blue tangs would get so big.. right now, it's a juvenile -- very small but I know he or she will quickly grow to be a majestic beast -- and that's OK!! At work, we have massive reef aquariums throughout our floors so rehoming it once it gets too big is not a problem. I plan on purchasing a Red Sea/Waterbox 55-65g AIO setup sometime next month where I can continue this amazing hobby. I can safely say that in a years time, he/she will likely be going into one of the many one of the 1000+ gallon reefs we have at work.

Now, The problem with the blue tang is that I as soon as I acclimated him and put him/her in -- I noticed white spots ... ugh, yeah -- ich... ouch. I feed my fish the good stuff. Mysa shrimp, Brine shrimp, both life (I hatch them myself) and frozen, pellets, basically I try to give them a gourmet.

So this tang has ich. Unfortunately I did not spot it when I picked him/her up at Petco. The lighting there did not reveal the spots until I got home. I am very worried about my other stock which my wife and I have grown incredibly attached to. I know they are healthy enough to "fight it" I do not have a tank hospital to treat the tang and even if I go and purchase a setup tomorrow I am afraid it will be too late and the ich most likely has spread. So I have to make due with this problem.

My goal is to avoid any type of chemicals that can potentially reek havoc in my tank. I have an amazing collection of corals that will most likely be affected by any type of chemicals that I throw in there to help fight this. So, outside of meticulous water changes -- continuing to keep the tank sparkling clean, feeding them to keep the strong, is there anything else I can do?

Close to 5am and I cannot sleep. Super worried about all my little guys. Maybe I am overreacting and it could have been stress that caused this little dory to break out? We will see.

Thank you,

Zig

Two words: Research and patience. If the tank is only a month old, a dragonet may not do so well. Also ich, they either already had it, or they are stressed. 13.9 gallon?!

 

[Lingwendil]

as a former mom-and-pop pet/LFS employee it was infuriating how much marketing has caused problems like this. Eventually after customers had too many problems with chain store purchases or advice they would come to our store (staffed with only people that showed a good knowledge base before hire) and ask for solutions. Then I get to be the bad guy having to explain the expensive or depressing directions they then have to go- over time it became very tiring.

 

[MnFish1]

I would like to make a point - I think the OP is answered. However - I think 'do your research' is kind of a cop-out. If he/she 'did their own research' they could get advice from no QT - dump them in - to observation for x, y or z days, or Medicate only if disease - to a multitude of prophylactic treatments.

Some people love petco - some people hate petco. Some people hate online - some people order online all the time. The problem being - research often gives opposite answers. Right?

Point being - criticizing a new reefer - seldom results in a positive outcome.

 

[muzikalmatt]

Kudos to OP for acknowledging their mistake and seeking out advice for a best path forward. These type of threads have a tendancy to devolve into petty bickering sometimes, making it difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff and get some good information. Hopefully you've found the advice you're looking for and can implement it to the benefit of all of your tank inhabitants. Don't get discouraged by the way this thread has gone, as I can assure you it's not the norm. R2R is a great place for information and by and large most of the users are happy to help in times of need. Best of luck to you moving forward!

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

If I dont see a fish

Kudos to OP for acknowledging their mistake and seeking out advice for a best path forward. These type of threads have a tendancy to devolve into petty bickering sometimes, making it difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff and get some good information. Hopefully you've found the advice you're looking for and can implement it to the benefit of all of your tank inhabitants. Don't get discouraged by the way this thread has gone, as I can assure you it's not the norm. R2R is a great place for information and by and large most of the users are happy to help in times of need. Best of luck to you moving forward!

Absolutely agreeing.

 

[bnord]

As well, appreciate the openness of the OP and learning tract.

I would strongly suggest finding the funds and space for a simple QT in order to save the fish. Nothing like a 60 day (+) fallow to burn in the message.

Is there somewhere in the forum a punch list of what a bare bones QT would entail?

best of luck

 

[Kristopher Conlin]

Seeing that video I see the tang trying to get some speed and hitting and dead end glass wall. It makes me really sad for the poor guy.

Honestly with how quick people upgrade you should just go big if have the means. 120 or 180 gallon and keep the fish forever. I have never understood trading in fish as they get too big. For me they are pets I want to keep forever.

You could also easily fit all those fish in a 20 gallon long and run it as a hospital tank for 30 days to cure them of ich. Run the tank fallow/ cycle a new larger tank fit for that many inhabitants.

You can use that 13.5 gallon as a frag tank because if you succeed in this hobby eventually you will have overgrowth and need one.

Hope everything works out for you and your pets!

 

[MnFish1]

Seeing that video I see the tang trying to get some speed and hitting and dead end glass wall. It makes me really sad for the poor guy.

Honestly with how quick people upgrade you should just go big if have the means. 120 or 180 gallon and keep the fish forever. I have never understood trading in fish as they get too big. For me they are pets I want to keep forever.

You could also easily fit all those fish in a 20 gallon long and run it as a hospital tank for 30 days to cure them of ich. Run the tank fallow/ cycle a new larger tank fit for that many inhabitants.

You can use that 13.5 gallon as a frag tank because if you succeed in this hobby eventually you will have overgrowth and need one.

Hope everything works out for you and your pets!

I will slightly disagree - its hard to interpret fish behavior in a several second video. second - I don't think it s a good idea to put a tang in a 13.5 gallon aquarium - having said that - I tiny tang in a 13 gallon tank is fine. IMHO