I purchased a Blue Tang -- Big mistake but not the end the world

[Grumblez]

Hello welcome to the site I would start a build thread.

As far as money, I respectfully ask that we do not talk about that. I am being honest at what I have and do but I also do not like to talk too much about finances -- how expensive something is can be relative from person to person. Is that fair?

Don't take it personally no one is questioning the depth of your wallet just trying to give you advice. If some other hobby you where knowledgeable in someone new was spending 2 to 3x what they should on something, you would probably tell them right?

But yes, how does using boxed seawater keep you from having to top off? Are you topping off with more of the boxed water? That would cause salinity to creep up.

The fluval EVO only evaporates like an ounce a week lol especially in the winter so not to unbelievable that salinity hasn't moved in a months time using this method. For OP mark your water level in the return pump chamber and refill it with RODI water to that line before you do your water change. You can use the 1 gallon distilled water jugs from the grocery store or go to any Local fish store and they normally sell RODI water and premixed salt water. The salt water is also going to normally be a lot cheaper than petco boxed water.

Also my question no one has asked is where did you buy this live rock that it came with a free anemone? PetCo? If so I'm going to go buy some Petco live rock and quarantine it....

 

[crazyreefergirl]

Don't let that comment fool you. I'm not an idiot. Maybe inexperienced, but far from an idiot. I'm not doing this to prove anything to anyone but I do take pride in what I do -- and I am smart enough to know when to slow down and make things right.

I'm purchasing this bigger tank for more flexibility and for the simple fact that I am able to scratch everything that I've done so far and start over correctly. Dry rock, a true correct cycle and seasoned professionals that will be there for when I need a question answered. I F'd up getting this Tang but I'll make it right in the long run. To turn a negative into a positive, you have to remember that there is a possibility someone else may have purchased it and they would not be in a position to make corrective measures. I can promise you I'll make it past 1 year.

Don't be hard on yourself. You didn't screw up with the Tang. She got Ich from a big swing in salinity and might be other factors too. She is a little larger than I expected but she can be in tank few more months.
I remembered starting my first tank. A LFS told me Tangs need large space to swim. So, I bought a 300g. Little I knew, I flew to Hawaii one day, I saw Yellow Tangs the size of dinner plate and a Naso I saw was about 28" with wide grazing range. Even the 300g is nowhere big enough for these fish.
You don't need to cycle your tank if you don't want but you have to do it the right way ...

 

[Grumblez]

Don't be hard on yourself. You didn't screw up with the Tang. She got Ich from a big swing in salinity and might be other factors too. She is a little larger than I expected but she can be in tank few more months.
I remembered starting my first tank. A LFS told me Tangs need large space to swim. So, I bought a 300g. Little I knew, I flew to Hawaii one day, I saw Yellow Tangs the size of dinner plates and a Naso I saw was about 28" with wide grazing range. Even the 300g is nowhere big enough for these fish.

People still say this, but ICH does not magically appear with fish are stressed. It is a parasite that got into the tank somehow, in this case most likely came on the fish. If you follow proper quarantine procedures it is very possible to never have ICH.
For your second statement ancient hunger-gatherer humans covered territories of up to hundreds of square miles. Because we had to, many modern humans probably rarely venture more than a couple of miles from their residence.
To end on a positive note if you wanna see them Wild tangs any time check out this link (You'll have to rewind the stream as its night).

Um... I never said this. Do not put words in my mouth or take what I said out of context, please.

If I was under the impression that I am doing everything right, then I would have never looked online for a community of enthusiast to be able to steer me in the right direction. All I am seeing in this community, is individuals condemning me and saying my fish are as good as dead and that I am an idiot for getting to where I am now. For those who are actually providing me meaningful information, I sincerely thank you.

The more I think about it, outside of a few individuals here that have been nothing but helpful -- the majority sure as heck are not welcoming to new members. I have a thick skin but I may have picked the wrong community to be a part of. If I stop responding, I can assure those that have a genuine interest in my current situation that it will be corrected -- not by trial an error but from the advice of actual true professionals.

It seems like English maybe isn't first your language perhaps leading some off the misunderstandings. Some people have been a little harsh, but I haven't seen anyone call you an idiot. To try to put things into perspective it's kind of like you just posted on a parenting forum a video of your kid eating paint chips, so some people are going to be a little rude. You won't find a more active forum, and god help you if you go into any of the larger Facebook groups looking for advice. Hope you stick around and hope your reefer 250 works out well .

 

[crazyreefergirl]

People still say this, but ICH does not magically appear with fish are stressed. It is a parasite that got into the tank somehow, in this case most likely came on the fish. If you follow proper quarantine procedures it is very possible to never have ICH.
For your second statement ancient hunger-gatherer humans covered territories of up to hundreds of square miles. Because we had to, many modern humans probably rarely venture more than a couple of miles from their residence.
To end on a positive note if you wanna see them Wild tangs any time check out this link (You'll have to rewind the stream as its night).

Ich is like a cold. Currently there is not cure. Ich is always in the system. You can quarantine your fish all you want which I used to do. I moved my tank 3 years later, all my fish got ich. Try it with your system. Stress your system. It will bring about ich all over your fish.
What I was trying to say in my 2nd statement was, to be realist there is no tank large enough for many of these fish. To beat on a guy that put a 2 inches fish in a 13.5 gallon is totally ridiculous.
Some trash API which is also ridiculous. API test kit had its place. I've been using API for about 20 years. Below are some of my specimens. I had the Black Widow anemone before it is called Black Widow. The picture was taken when it was 10 years old. Now it is 18 years old and still going strong. My Regal is about 20 years old thanks to API.

 

[Grumblez]

Ich is like a cold. Currently there is not cure. Ich is always in the system. You can quarantine your fish all you want which I used to do. I moved my tank 3 years later, all my fish got ich. Try it with your system. Stress your system. It will bring about ich all over your fish.
What I was trying to say in my 2nd statement was, to be realist there is no tank large enough for many of these fish. To beat on a guy that put a 2 inches fish in a 13.5 gallon is totally ridiculous.
Some trash API which is also ridiculous. API test kit had its place. I've been using API for about 20 years. Below are some of my specimens. I had the Black Widow anemone before it is called Black Widow. The picture was taken when it was 10 years old. Now it is 18 years old and still going strong. My Regal is about 20 years old thanks to API.

Nice corals.
No ICH is not like the common cold the common is a Virus, ICH is a parasite that can be killed with copper and other drugs. Regardless you don't spontaneously get colds ether. If you never leave your house and make all visitors and packages wait outside your door for several weeks before bringing them inside you would most likely never get a cold or probably any other disease.
My return pump was just turned off for 3 days, my water got to the 60s. I lost 2 corals but no fish and no sign of disease off any sort.


You might have quarantined fish but did you quarantine every single invert and coral for 45+ days? It's not fun, but ICH is not inevitable and it's impossible for it to spontaneously appear in a tank. It has to come in on something. Normally ether as a parasite on a fish, or as an egg/cyst on a snail shell or coral.

 

[polyppal]

Ich is like a cold. Currently there is not cure. Ich is always in the system. You can quarantine your fish all you want which I used to do. I moved my tank 3 years later, all my fish got ich. Try it with your system. Stress your system. It will bring about ich all over your fish.

Ich is a parasite, not a fish ‘cold’. A cold doesn’t potentially kill you and everyone in proximity to you in a few days. A parasite has to be introduced to an environment, it doesn’t magically appear when your stressed out. It is not ‘always in your system’ if you properly QT… As has been proven over and over again by hobbiests and institutions like public aquariums

Glad things worked out for your fish with a solid diet, but please don’t confuse new people with your opinions presented as facts, they are largely misinformation

 

[crazyreefergirl]

Nice corals.
No ICH is not like the common cold the common is a Virus, ICH is a parasite that can be killed with copper and other drugs. Regardless you don't spontaneously get colds ether. If you never leave your house and make all visitors and packages wait outside your door for several weeks before bringing them inside you would most likely never get a cold or probably any other disease.
My return pump was just turned off for 3 days, my water got to the 60s. I lost 2 corals but no fish and no sign of disease off any sort.


You might have quarantined fish but did you quarantine every single invert and coral for 45+ days? It's not fun, but ICH is not inevitable and it's impossible for it to spontaneously appear in a tank. It has to come in on something. Normally ether as a parasite on a fish, or as an egg/cyst on a snail shell or coral.

Of course Ich is a parasite and cold is a virus, we all know that. What I am saying is, there is no way to irradicate them at this time and also the fish gets ich when it's stress enough as we can get a cold when we are stress enough and our immune system is down.
Your fish might be healthy enough to handle the stress hence it did not get ich. There is an inflection point where the fish will get ich if it goes beyond that point.
I hate to do the stress test because I feel bad for the fish, but I have done stress tests to couple of my friends. The result always the same. The fish got ich. They recovered quickly since I stopped the test once ich is shown. After the test, they all said they did not quarantine properly.
This discussion will never be come to an agreement just like the egg or the chicken, which come first?

 

[crazyreefergirl]

Ich is a parasite, not a fish ‘cold’. A cold doesn’t potentially kill you and everyone in proximity to you in a few days. A parasite has to be introduced to an environment, it doesn’t magically appear when your stressed out. It is not ‘always in your system’ if you properly QT… As has been proven over and over again by hobbiests and institutions like public aquariums

Glad things worked out for your fish with a solid diet, but please don’t confuse new people with your opinions presented as facts, they are largely misinformation

Of course Ich is a parasite and cold is a virus, we all know that. What I am saying is, there is no way to irradicate them at this time and also the fish gets ich when it's stress enough as we can get a cold when we are stress enough and our immune system is down.
Stress your fish enough and your fish will get ich. There is such thing as ich free system. There is an inflection point where the fish will get ich if it goes beyond that point.
I hate to do the stress test because I feel bad for the fish, but I have done stress tests to couple of my friends. The result always the same. The fish got ich. They recovered quickly since I stopped the test once ich is shown. After the test, they all said they did not quarantine properly.
This discussion will never come to an agreement just like the egg or the chicken, which come first?

 

[Grumblez]

Of course Ich is a parasite and cold is a virus, we all know that. What I am saying is, there is no way to irradicate them at this time and also the fish

Step 1 remove fish
Step 2 treat fish in copper for 30 days or do tank transfer method.
Step 3 set temperature at 82 degrees and leave reef tank fallow for 45+ days.

TaDa I just cured ICH! I should write a book, except for this information is easily findable on this forum.

I understand most people are going to do ICH management and not properly quarantine but more upsetting then this dude putting dory is his Fluval (the fish that has a frickin song about how much it loves swimming lol) is someone experienced telling new people not to bother with quarantine.

 

[Harold999]

A good lfs wouldn't have sold you the blue tang, yet. (they would have asked your situation and concluded that this is not good idea)
But unfortunately for the animals, there aren't many good lfs. They only want to sell.

 

[Brady4000]

the fish that has a frickin song about how much it loves swimming lo

I have made it to page 6! The end did not disappoint lol had me rolling!!! Following.

 

[Grumblez]

A good lfs wouldn't have sold you the blue tang, yet. (they would have asked your situation and concluded that this is not good idea)
But unfortunately for the animals, there aren't many good lfs. They only want to sell.

Yes Petco the good LFS

 

[Brady4000]

Something’s I would like to add that seems to be missed.

OP said he started with live rock and everyone is concerned with his cycle makes no sense. It’s an instant cycle. What els is left to cycle the glass?

The tang in the 13g yea it’s been said, I agree shame shame shame, moving on.

Might be a good idea to toss a big UV on that 13g in the meantime. Buy you some time while you get your new tank set up. Good job with getting some vitamins for the fish and keeping the water clean.

Also, if I were you, I would take some of that live rock in your tank, QT it without any fish for 45 days and toss it in the big tank! Biodiversity!

I just learned it’s no longer 72 days go figure.

Good luck.

 

[Lyss]

Step 1 remove fish
Step 2 treat fish in copper for 30 days or do tank transfer method.
Step 3 set temperature at 82 degrees and leave reef tank fallow for 45+ days.

TaDa I just cured ICH! I should write a book, except for this information is easily findable on this forum.

I understand most people are going to do ICH management and not properly quarantine but more upsetting then this dude putting dory is his Fluval (the fish that has a frickin song about how much it loves swimming lol) is someone experienced telling new people not to bother with quarantine.

I just woke up and am reading through the posts I hadn’t seen. To me also concerning is someone experienced telling someone new to the hobby who has been making mistakes that they don’t need to cycle their tank.

Some folks have been overly harsh, but I think many have just been trying to let it be known that the course the OP has been on is not okay, without sugar coating it.

Just broadly speaking, I saw someone else mention being overly concerned w/his cycle, but he used live rock. I think I asked earlier if it was live rock or dry. We did get the answer live, but still don’t know where it came from or if it was indeed live. If an anemone was on it, I assume that yes it was truly live rock and was wet when introduced, so yes, instant cycle. That said, in addition the the bad ich advice, to just give a blanket statement to someone new who is making a lot of other mistakes that they don’t need to cycle a tank is poor advice — a statement like that IMO should be qualified with “if/since you used real live rock,” and the concept of checking for a mini cycle from die-off before adding a ton of fish should be explained.

 

[CrunchyBananas]

A lot has been covered, but one thing as the guy who probably used to maintain the exact tanks you're talking about at your work in NYC: those tanks are not yours, and you are not welcome to add your own livestock, especially livestock that is sick and from petco. you adding one fish could quickly wipe out many thousands of dollars worth of livestock.

 

[Kal93]

I was hoping that this post was a joke. However, I'm sure that plenty of us have been in a situation where we impulse purchased a piece of coral or fish; often, it's a hard lesson. This hobby is NOT forgiving and we just want what's best for your fish/coral.

I won't harp on your other fish choices or mistakes--people have already addressed it here. Regarding your original post, your best bet would be to sell, return, or rehome the blue tang. Even a 55-65G is not a good home for these fish. If you insist on keeping it, buy a cheap aqueon 55-75G on sale in the meantime (within the next 6 months) and upgrade to a fancy 120G when you have $$$. You are 200% overstocked; this is very different from freshwater stocking. For instance, I have a 40G with 1 3" butterflyfish, 1 3" wrasse and 1 2" wrasse and am upgrading to a 120G. Fish behave very differently in cramped vs. spacious tanks and too small of a tank will contort their internal organs as they grow.

Regarding infection, tangs can develop mucus plugs that resemble ich (for instance, after copper). However, if the ich-like particulates return, it's likely ich. That means going fallow for ~72 days and treating your fish with copper or tank-transfer method. The issue isn't just the ich--it's also secondary bacterial infections (which wiped out my tank). I HIGHLY recommend that you treat your fish ASAP--get a 5G bucket from Home Depot if need be. I've tried hydrogen peroxide; IMO it's snake oil. Here is a guide on medications/dosing: https://humble.fish/medication-dosing-guide/

Here is also a great channel to answer some basic questions: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGGM8r6qjSRqPy9eAIFT32w

 

[crazyreefergirl]

Step 1 remove fish
Step 2 treat fish in copper for 30 days or do tank transfer method.
Step 3 set temperature at 82 degrees and leave reef tank fallow for 45+ days.

TaDa I just cured ICH! I should write a book, except for this information is easily findable on this forum.

I understand most people are going to do ICH management and not properly quarantine but more upsetting then this dude putting dory is his Fluval (the fish that has a frickin song about how much it loves swimming lol) is someone experienced telling new people not to bother with quarantine.

30 days of copper going to kill a lot of fish and totally not necessary. Ask yourself how many fish you and others killed in quarantine.
How do you quarantine your inverts? Again, there is no way to irradicate ich in a system. They will always present. Keep your fish well fed and don't stress your system. There will be no ich.

 

[Lyss]

30 days of copper going kill a lot of fish and totally not necessary.
How do you quarantine your inverts?

This is the QT protocol recommended on this forum.

Current Quarantine Protocol

2023 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before...

www.reef2reef.com

I feel that if you want to be helpful to folks new to the hobby who are having some issues, it’s important to know the forum protocol and not knowingly give bad advice.

It seems that you’re experienced, so your methods may work for you and that is totally fine. Just not great to promote them to someone who came here needing a lot of help and good advice.

 

[crazyreefergirl]

This is the QT protocol recommended on this forum.

Current Quarantine Protocol

2023 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before...

www.reef2reef.com

I feel that if you want to be helpful to folks new to the hobby who are having some issues, it’s important to know the forum protocol and not knowingly give bad advice.

It seems that you’re experienced, so your methods may work for you and that is totally fine. Just not great to promote them to someone who came here needing a lot of help and good advice.

Just because my view is opposite of you, doesn't mean I give the wrong advice. What is the goal of the forum? To kill lot and lot of fish unnecessary? How many fish did you unnecessarily killed in 30 days copper solution?
Forum Protocol???? LOL You think this forum is helpful by trash talking him???? Did I trashed talk him like many of you did?
My method works and effective. I help made life easy for lots of my friends.
I am not against quarantine and actually I do it as well but not the level some of you are doing. It's not necessary. My point I am trying to make is don't be tightwad over getting ich in the system because it's always there. Plus don't get on to guy putting a 2" regal in a 13.5 while the same person had a Naso Tang in his or her 180g or worse yet in a 120g.

 

[Grumblez]

30 days of copper going to kill a lot of fish and totally not necessary. Ask yourself how many fish you and others killed in quarantine.
How do you quarantine your inverts? Again, there is no way to irradicate ich in a system. They will always present. Keep your fish well fed and don't stress your system. There will be no ich.

ICH has a life cycle. ICH is a parasite on fish, and It also off course can be free swimming and it creates cysts. When these cysts hatch to ich if they can't find a suitable host they starve and die.

So if there is no fish in a system eventually all the ICH will starve and die. So it's the same process for irradiacating ICH from a tank and quarantining inverts, have no fish in the Tank for 45 days
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/45-day-fallow-periods.805213/

How many fish has copper killed? I don't know but certainly way less than ICH and other diseases. You can also do only 14 days of copper or even tank transfer method without copper at all to eliminate most disease.

How To - Quarantine

How to Setup a Quarantine Tank (updated 4-6-2023) The following are the essentials: Aquarium (10-30 gallons seems to work for most people. A larger QT lets you house more fish and gives you more wiggle room when it comes to ammonia. A smaller QT is cheaper, easier to maintain and can be...

humble.fish