I just lost $5,000 in aquatic life because I did something stupid

[Lady of Babylon]

@Lady of Babylon

When I moved into my dream house, I had been operating a marine aquarium for ten years, but always a 55G tank. I upgraded to a 150G tank which included oak cabinet stand but no sump. As the reefer addiction grew, I wound up with a 1500G remote refugium/growout system in my garage. Find a place to put a 150G Rubbermade tub. For your goals in this hobby, it will serve you well.

That is part of my long term plan. I was a minimum of a 300 gallon tank. And the refugium I had planned was always going to be equal to or greater than the tank itself. However I have to take my hobby a little slower now. My husband is not as on board as he used to be, which wasn’t much to begin with.

 

[Subsea]

That is part of my long term plan. I was a minimum of a 300 gallon tank. And the refugium I had planned was always going to be equal to or greater than the tank itself. However I have to take my hobby a little slower now. My husband is not as on board as he used to be, which wasn’t much to begin with.

Consider setting up 150G Rubbermade tub at about $150. It can be set up on floor as alone or remotely plumbed in at a later date. In any case, it would provide a temporary 6 month storage, depending on compatibility of fish in close quarters,

I am closer to estuaries yes. But I have not collected anything from the wild personally. There are not a lot of heavily un-trafficked locations for the lagoons to have wildlife hanging out in them. As a kid I remember the tide pools in Southern California being very lively. I used to feed the anemones with my dad every weekend. I have never seen anemones up here in the Northern California shallows though.

The reason I mentioned collecting was because it was one method to maintain diversity of bacteria in your ecosystem. As you have indicated, the microbial loop is how higher trophic levels are feed amounting to > 50% of nutritional requirements. As our closed systems age, dominate species flourish as others diminish. In Marine Aquarium, this would be called “old age syndrome”. In agriculture, this would be a “Climax Forest”. I use diver collected uncured live rock for this purpose. Natural seawater is another method of providing diversity & food and that is why I asked about collecting. What was your source for invertebrate in your tank?

 

[Subsea]

I completely understand. I did start this post off with acknowledging that I had this loss because I did something stupid.



The tank was intentionally set up as a low flow tank, like a tide pool with a wave maker to mock a high tide pouring over the rocks. (Some of these fish have been seen in larger tide pools like this.) That’s how I also know where the chain reaction started. First distressed fish was my male potter, he went very pale and was laying on rock near the top of the system. First actual casualty was a hermit crab that fell off the rock In front of the cucumber which is how I spotted the cucumber and fish that swam next to it briefly acted poisoned. I did forget that near the cucumber I had 4 leather corals. When it comes to the puffers on the other side of the tank: one was purchased a little on the beaten up side. And the other was trying to establish territory rights. I know that puffers don’t release toxins unless they are under extreme stress. The beat up puffers belly was bloated when I found it and then shriveled after I removed it with a cup.



The tank was originally supposed to be a pyramid with micro life forms & macro algae being the base/first tier.

Second tier is the inverts (which was not enough for the new bio-load)

Third tier was larger schools of smaller fish (under 1 1/2 inch) since they have a much smaller bio-load impact, give the look of a lively and active reef, and if they breed (like my gold neons were) it contributes to the natural food web. (Can be hunted by the larger fish)

Forth was herbivores and pest control species

final tier was the fish in the heavier carnivore bio-load.

because of all of the water changes washing out all of my micro life, the tank is experiencing a massive die off and is cycling again. The survivors are doing fine in a separate holding tank and will not be placed in the tank until the tank is safe for them again. It’s going to be closer to a year before I add any actual fish again. And I will not be adding all of what was lost. (No pyramid, long nose, and a few others that I need to argue with myself to give up on.)

That is quite some ecosystem you are putting together. Are you writing a thesis on this? I like your vision and passion.

In particular with the carnivores, the social territory squabbles are sources of stress and stress kills more fish in captivity than all other combined reasons.

 

[Lady of Babylon]

Consider setting up 150G Rubbermade tub at about $150. It can be set up on floor as alone or remotely plumbed in at a later date. In any case, it would provide a temporary 6 month storage, depending on compatibility of fish in close quarters,





The reason I mentioned collecting was because it was one method to maintain diversity of bacteria in your ecosystem. As you have indicated, the microbial loop is how higher trophic levels are feed amounting to > 50% of nutritional requirements. As our closed systems age, dominate species flourish as others diminish. In Marine Aquarium, this would be called “old age syndrome”. In agriculture, this would be a “Climax Forest”. I use diver collected uncured live rock for this purpose. Natural seawater is another method of providing diversity & food and that is why I asked about collecting. What was your source for invertebrate in your tank?

My original intention was personal wild collection of water, sand, macro algae, inverts from Hawaii for the very reasons you mentioned. I have family living in Hawaii... but COVID kinda rained on that parade. I have a list of the species I intended to collect. I am currently working to see of I could get more information on a few nudibranches and bubble snails. As well as some flatworms. Need to know if they release toxins and what their diet is.

When I go into the local fish stores, they already know me well because I ask to have all the weird crap no one wants in their tank.

 

[Lady of Babylon]

That is quite some ecosystem you are putting together. Are you writing a thesis on this? I like your vision and passion.

In particular with the carnivores, the social territory squabbles are sources of stress and stress kills more fish in captivity than all other combined reasons.

Yes, that stress is why the ecosystem is heavy with live rock and coral skeletons, it massively cuts down the squabbling and stress.
Eventually I plan to write down everything to share my findings with the community. No thesis, just a research junkie with a passion for nature who observes and “monkey see monkey does.”
As far back as kindergarten I remember absorbing everything I could and wanted to be a zoologist or marine biologist. When Free Willy came out I remember doing a college level presentation to my third grade classmates about the ecosystem of marine life. And the class field trip to the aquarium and tide pools in Southern California, the docents just let me explain what I knew first and then add in a cent here and there .

my current day job is a user experience designer for my family’s flower farm. I studied 9 years of industrial design for college.

 

[xrickyhoangx]

Sorry for your loss. Don't give up!

 

[DeniseAndy]

Hearing your story brought back my huge loss not just 2 years ago. I am so sorry, but it is wonderful that you are learning and improving as you go forward.

You obviously have a strong passion for marine life and the entire ecosystem. Good luck on your next adventure. I hope you make a build of it we can all enjoy.

 

[CMMorgan]

Welcome to our fishy family. My heart breaks for you and swells with admiration at the same time. You were trying to do a beautiful thing. Think of it like this... the guy who invented the Dyson cyclonic vacuum went through hundreds of prototypes before getting it right and he changed the technology forever. Sometimes you have you go through the suck and the muck to hit eureka! (sorry, vacuum pun)
Keep at it. Please start a build thread... or we can call it a coming back from the abyss thread. We are with you in encouragement, spirit and strength!!

 

[kzitzman1]

I am really devastated.



I have been working on creating a sustainable ecosystem (indo/central pacific and heavily Hawaiian islands) with my saltwater tank. I want to breed a variety of specific hard to get species so that the aquarium trade doesn’t continue to have such devastating effects on the oceanic ecosystems. I also want to share and teach my appreciation of the ocean and it’s ecosystems with others. It’s one of my longest and biggest dreams.



It brings me back to my childhood when my dad lived on his sail boat in Oceanside, Southern California. He taught me a lot about the ocean and it’s life. I have always had a love and respect for the ocean and it’s ecosystem.



Hawaii and the indo-pacific have shut down all operations for a minimum of 3 years... great for the wild life! however that makes my dream of having my ecosystem and breeding sustainably REALLY a challenge. So I did what any panicked dreamer does with a credit card and the REALLY RARE opportunity to purchase all of the fish I had planned... ALL AT ONCE!



My tank could handle the bioload.

And it was.



Then Thursday happened. I knew better than to mess with cucumbers. (I got to help my clean up crew, thought it would be ok.) something bothered it. (Thinking it was my potters angel since he was all of a sudden pale and the only one that looked distressed.) it went into self defense mode and spit out its guts and released toxins. I thought I had caught it in time... but it set off a chain reaction. The puffers then puffed and released their toxins in defense on the other side of the tank. In 15 minutes. Even with heavy amounts of activated carbon already in place... I lost several thousands in aquatic life.



survivors :

* 5 green chomis,

* dwarf moray eel,

* yellow tang,

* 2 dragon faced pipefish,

...



Schrodinger’s listed:



* 1 golden eyed kole,

* 1 fire fish,

* cleaner wrasse,

* coco worm,

* Orange starfish,

* 3 saron shrimp,

* 1 fighting conch,

* peppermint shrimp,

* 5 zebra dwarf hermit crabs,

* all mushrooms,

* leather corals, hammer coral, duncans, zoas, +

* campfire and pink feather duster worms,

* humpback cowrie

* arrow crab

* 2 barnacles

* 2 mussels

* bubble snails

* micro jellyfish

* star polyps

* frogspawn coral

* 3 mini maxi anemones,

* copepods, amphipods, dwarf stars, tongan snails, nassarius snails, astraea snails, turbo snails, thin striped hermit crabs, macro algae, etc.

* other micro flora/fauna

...



Known casualties:



* gold neon gobies (mated pair with eggs)

* flame fairy wrasses (mated pair)

* 5 firefish

* 3 pink streaked wrasses

* 1 golden eyed kole

* pyramid butterfly fish

* court jester goby

* 2 long nosed butterfly fish

* pebbled Angel fish

* 2 potters Angel fish (male & female)

* fishers Angel fish

* 2 Hawaiian white spotted puffers

* white spotted dwarf goby

* 1 dragon faced pipefish

* blue striped pipefish

* 5 Vanderbuilt chromis,

* 2 fighting conches,

* 2 limpets

* 2 short spine urchins,

* 2 long spine urchins,

* 3 flame scallops,

* 12 sexy shrimp

* 6 saron shrimp

* 1 cucumber

* chocolate chip starfish,

On Thursday I spent a few hours staring at my fish that I had pulled out of the tank and into clean water with a heater and a bubbler hoping that they would snap out of it, breaking down and trying to give them fish “CPR” hoping that I would revive them... I am still in denial and shock.

Friday and Saturday I watched my vander’s die one by one and all of my mushrooms and coral melt like the wicked witch of the west...


It’s Sunday ... and I can’t catch a break. Even the life forms in the sand are jumping ship. It doesn’t look hopeful that I’ll have any survivors. Every time I do a water change the tank seems to get worse. My live sand is turning black right before my eyes.
And yes. I have been pumping extra oxygen into the tank for a few hours. I also got close to 50 lbs of live rock that I have just added to the tank. Never in all my life of keeping fish have I ever seen or have anything like this happen to such an extreme.



I am at a complete loss as how to move forward.

anyone know how I can salvage my tank?

I’m so so sorry. It hurt just to read your situation. I really empathize with you. That is heart breaking. It’s hard enough losing an inanimate object sometimes but when losing a pet or animal, especially a favorite that is part of the family, really is hard.

 

[badams.one]

Sorry for your loss.. never keep those sea hairs man. I had one once and i caught it before it released toxins.. when i put it in a container thrn it released it.


But i feel your pain.. i recently went through a bacterial infection that killed

4 chalices. 1 800-1000$ basketball sized green splatter bubble coral, three favias.. two were hand sized. Killed all ny toxic green trumpets. Half of my baby blue trumpets. My acans.. ect

And i managed to stop the infection with antibiotics. But in my haste to try different things.. i tried an herbal treatment from a brand i cant say.. and it killed 12 of my acroporas... So i lost 1200$ in acroporas.


All together i lost about 3000$ in corals. But the antibiotics did work and saved my remaining lps as the infection was killing only lps.. favias. Acans. Trumpets. Bubbles ect.


Stick with it man.. and keep going.. I know this doesnt help you but i got lucky.. the store owner this disease came from.. owned up and replaced 4 of my corals... and the place that made this herbal treatment gave me a check for my acroporas. I know you cant do what i got lucky from.. but i hope you dont quit thr hobby.. just learn from this

Curious what you had in the tank? You mentioned bacterial, what kind and how did you get it?

 

[Butcher333]

WOW! Sorry. That’s “SO” much to lose.

 

[badams.one]

I am really devastated.



I have been working on creating a sustainable ecosystem (indo/central pacific and heavily Hawaiian islands) with my saltwater tank. I want to breed a variety of specific hard to get species so that the aquarium trade doesn’t continue to have such devastating effects on the oceanic ecosystems. I also want to share and teach my appreciation of the ocean and it’s ecosystems with others. It’s one of my longest and biggest dreams.



It brings me back to my childhood when my dad lived on his sail boat in Oceanside, Southern California. He taught me a lot about the ocean and it’s life. I have always had a love and respect for the ocean and it’s ecosystem.



Hawaii and the indo-pacific have shut down all operations for a minimum of 3 years... great for the wild life! however that makes my dream of having my ecosystem and breeding sustainably REALLY a challenge. So I did what any panicked dreamer does with a credit card and the REALLY RARE opportunity to purchase all of the fish I had planned... ALL AT ONCE!



My tank could handle the bioload.

And it was.



Then Thursday happened. I knew better than to mess with cucumbers. (I got to help my clean up crew, thought it would be ok.) something bothered it. (Thinking it was my potters angel since he was all of a sudden pale and the only one that looked distressed.) it went into self defense mode and spit out its guts and released toxins. I thought I had caught it in time... but it set off a chain reaction. The puffers then puffed and released their toxins in defense on the other side of the tank. In 15 minutes. Even with heavy amounts of activated carbon already in place... I lost several thousands in aquatic life.



survivors :

* 5 green chomis,

* dwarf moray eel,

* yellow tang,

* 2 dragon faced pipefish,

...



Schrodinger’s listed:



* 1 golden eyed kole,

* 1 fire fish,

* cleaner wrasse,

* coco worm,

* Orange starfish,

* 3 saron shrimp,

* 1 fighting conch,

* peppermint shrimp,

* 5 zebra dwarf hermit crabs,

* all mushrooms,

* leather corals, hammer coral, duncans, zoas, +

* campfire and pink feather duster worms,

* humpback cowrie

* arrow crab

* 2 barnacles

* 2 mussels

* bubble snails

* micro jellyfish

* star polyps

* frogspawn coral

* 3 mini maxi anemones,

* copepods, amphipods, dwarf stars, tongan snails, nassarius snails, astraea snails, turbo snails, thin striped hermit crabs, macro algae, etc.

* other micro flora/fauna

...



Known casualties:



* gold neon gobies (mated pair with eggs)

* flame fairy wrasses (mated pair)

* 5 firefish

* 3 pink streaked wrasses

* 1 golden eyed kole

* pyramid butterfly fish

* court jester goby

* 2 long nosed butterfly fish

* pebbled Angel fish

* 2 potters Angel fish (male & female)

* fishers Angel fish

* 2 Hawaiian white spotted puffers

* white spotted dwarf goby

* 1 dragon faced pipefish

* blue striped pipefish

* 5 Vanderbuilt chromis,

* 2 fighting conches,

* 2 limpets

* 2 short spine urchins,

* 2 long spine urchins,

* 3 flame scallops,

* 12 sexy shrimp

* 6 saron shrimp

* 1 cucumber

* chocolate chip starfish,

On Thursday I spent a few hours staring at my fish that I had pulled out of the tank and into clean water with a heater and a bubbler hoping that they would snap out of it, breaking down and trying to give them fish “CPR” hoping that I would revive them... I am still in denial and shock.

Friday and Saturday I watched my vander’s die one by one and all of my mushrooms and coral melt like the wicked witch of the west...


It’s Sunday ... and I can’t catch a break. Even the life forms in the sand are jumping ship. It doesn’t look hopeful that I’ll have any survivors. Every time I do a water change the tank seems to get worse. My live sand is turning black right before my eyes.
And yes. I have been pumping extra oxygen into the tank for a few hours. I also got close to 50 lbs of live rock that I have just added to the tank. Never in all my life of keeping fish have I ever seen or have anything like this happen to such an extreme.



I am at a complete loss as how to move forward.

anyone know how I can salvage my tank?

Sorry to hear about your loss.. this is truly devastating. I can't begin to imagine.. I nearly had a heart attack two weeks ago when my return pump stopped working for a whole 15 minutes. Thank you for sharing your experience for the benefit the community. Sea cucumbers have been added to my black list. Best of luck with your new endeavor.

 

[SaltISlife]

Curious what you had in the tank? You mentioned bacterial, what kind and how did you get it?

I dont think anyone knows much about diseases in cirals.. hell scientists dont know what infections are killing corals in the oceans.

All i know is antibiotics called doxycycline hyclate stopped it completetly. And it was only attacking lps. Favias. Acans. Trumpets. Bubble corals, fungia plate corals.

It never touched my sps or zoas.

I got it from a local store in northern virginia. They buy corals from quality marine, and all there corals come from the ocean. Nothing was captive fragged

 

[Lady of Babylon]

#HELP the tank is not doing well. My husband and I are waking up in the middle of the night with it smelling absolutely rancid. None of the rocks smell when I have taken them out. The sand is the color it should be. My media filter has water running through it, but I can’t get movement through the pearls for more than an hour before the pearls stop moving. I have checked the pump and nothing seems to be clogging it. I have had carbon in my sock since Sunday.

my husband is now demanding that I throw the whole thing out.

 

[DxMarinefish]

It's a real shame this has happened to you, but there is a lot we can all learn from this.

Would starting again be a better option?

If you leave the tank for a period (you mentioned approx 1 year), can you be certain there won't be lingering issues down the road?
Toxins can hold up in sand/rocks and just leach slowly over years.

As you can collect fresh bio-life from the sea where you are (wish I could), you appear to have a source of fresh inputs to start again.

Personally i would bin any sand and rocks. Better safe than sorry.

What are your thoughts?

 

[DieHardPhotog-Reefer]

Sorry for your loss.. never keep those sea hairs man. I had one once and i caught it before it released toxins.. when i put it in a container thrn it released it.


But i feel your pain.. i recently went through a bacterial infection that killed

4 chalices. 1 800-1000$ basketball sized green splatter bubble coral, three favias.. two were hand sized. Killed all ny toxic green trumpets. Half of my baby blue trumpets. My acans.. ect

And i managed to stop the infection with antibiotics. But in my haste to try different things.. i tried an herbal treatment from a brand i cant say.. and it killed 12 of my acroporas... So i lost 1200$ in acroporas.


All together i lost about 3000$ in corals. But the antibiotics did work and saved my remaining lps as the infection was killing only lps.. favias. Acans. Trumpets. Bubbles ect.


Stick with it man.. and keep going.. I know this doesnt help you but i got lucky.. the store owner this disease came from.. owned up and replaced 4 of my corals... and the place that made this herbal treatment gave me a check for my acroporas. I know you cant do what i got lucky from.. but i hope you dont quit thr hobby.. just learn from this

This was very helpful. Would you mind sharing what antibiotics you used and from whom we can purchase them?

 

[Lady of Babylon]

#HELP the tank is not doing well. My husband and I are waking up in the middle of the night with it smelling absolutely rancid. None of the rocks smell when I have taken them out. The sand is the color it should be. My media filter has water running through it, but I can’t get movement through the pearls for more than an hour before the pearls stop moving. I have checked the pump and nothing seems to be clogging it. I have had carbon in my sock since Sunday.

my husband is now demanding that I throw the whole thing out.

Sooo... I think using prime with my water changes is what is mucking things up. I turned up the heat a bit to see if that will help kill the sulfur bacteria. When the fish stores open in 3 hours I am going to do some serious water changes again. Primeless.

 

[Uncle99]

OMG! That’s terrible.

I have “heard” poison stories, but wholly wow, I did not now the devastating effects.

I’m so sorry to hear of this.

Save what you can, reset, and back to the project.

Best of luck.

 

[monique265]

know how you feel. i have a 265 gal. spent 10 yrs collecting and then had one of the bottom seams let go in the middle of the night. i figure it cost me between 15 and 20 thousand dollars. i wasnt going to start up again but my husband insisted as i enjoyed it so much. my problem is i live 400 miles from the nearest store that sells saltwater stock and cant get it shipped here. if i want nice stuff i have to go to toronto 750 miles away. so 2 yrs later tank is fixed and i have about half the stock i used too. 6 trips to toronto.

 

[SaltISlife]

#HELP the tank is not doing well. My husband and I are waking up in the middle of the night with it smelling absolutely rancid. None of the rocks smell when I have taken them out. The sand is the color it should be. My media filter has water running through it, but I can’t get movement through the pearls for more than an hour before the pearls stop moving. I have checked the pump and nothing seems to be clogging it. I have had carbon in my sock since Sunday.

my husband is now demanding that I throw the whole thing out.

Do a big water change 75% . And replace the carbon.. add more than 1 sock.


Get yourself some frtizyme 9. It sounds like you need to get some beneficial bacteria in that tank. Fritzyme 9 is the only good bacteris ina bottle. Use 3x recomended dose. They sell 1 gallon bottles on amazon for like 30$ last i checked.

Also dont overdose prime in it takes oxygen out of the water and ive had it kill fish in saltwatse.. they need to put warning lables like that on the bottle.. for fresh water its ok but salt dont overdose.