I got a rant to put out there, so fair warning but I'm open to hearing opinions

[StatelineReefer]

It wwc

Everyone knows this lol

Plot twist, it wasn't.

 

[Cell]

The so called "little guys" at shows know when they are selling to one of the "big guys", yet still happily take their profit. Some of you are acting like they are being victimized when they are happily running their business. Why would you be mad when they are not?

 

[pennied]

Plot twist, it wasn't.

Plot twist, they do it too. Alllll the time

 

[Cell]

Correct me if I'm wrong, there was no mention of "lying about provenance" in the original post. Seems like the goalposts are moving here. Of course lying about the source or lineage of a coral when directly asked is shady. But buying a colony from a different vendor, chopping it up and selling frags under a made up name is marketing and part of the hobby.

 

[GatorGreg]

And anyone thinking this way should be beat behind a dumpster. Goes both ways here.

Don’t like the price, don’t buy. Hobby too expensive? Find a different one or find a way to make this one work in your budget. There are loads of $5 and $10 corals out there.

It is not our job or place to judge how others spend their money. Let alone should any of us advocate for violence to fix the solution.

HIDE THE CORAL THERES POOR PEOPLE AROUND!!

Super elitiest mentality here. “Hobby to expensive, find another one”. Aquarium keeping was once a relatively affordable hobby genius. It’s people like the ones you’re making excuses for making it not so. “There are loads of 10 to 15 dollar corals out there”. Stop lying dude. I have NEVER seen a 10 or 15 dollar coral since like 2005 at a business. Unless it’s some sketchy potheads house selling you a frag with every ailment known to the hobby on it.

“Can’t afford a 100k electric car?” Walk pleb lol.

I’m not advocating government intervention. I’m saying the people shun them until they go out of business.

 

[Dburr1014]

The so called "little guys" at shows know when they are selling to one of the "big guys", yet still happily take their profit. Some of you are acting like they are being victimized when they are happily running their business. Why would you be mad when they are not?

Do you believe the "little guy" thinks they are selling to a brand name so they can sell it at the same show the Same day?
Most likely I would think they would be selling thinking it wouldn't be on display 5 minutes later for double the money.
This is my problem I have. But, maybe it's just that, my problem.

 

[Eric R.]

My 2 cents...i actually see nothing wrong with this behavior. As OP wrote: The market pays what it can but I have a firm belief that scalping via arbitrage shouldn't be allowed.

It would appear OP knows about free market theory but doesnt want it to work effectively. If seller A sells it for too little to the point that Seller B can buy from Seller A and Sell it to Seller C for a mark up..that is definitionally free market theory surrounding inefficient markets. In fact, these intermediaries are a big reason that many of us can get products. In our hobby, distriubtors are a big part of our equation and they are bringing products to those that want and liquidity to the original seller in an inefficient market.

Dont get me wrong...its the same as having a garage sale just to have the pawn shops and ebay sellers haggle you down over your stuff and it annoys me...but it doesnt mean it is wrong. As a seller, you make the decision if you are willing to sell at a price. As a buyer, you make the decision if you are willing to buy at a price. The mechanism outside of your decision for anything other than a definite need (food, energy, etc) is a moot point.

It could also be considered information asymmetry. Generally buyers don't have as much information about a good as the seller does. Sometimes it's because the seller is dishonest, sometimes the buyer fails to ask the right questions (or any questions at all), and sometimes they put an unreasonable amount of trust or faith in the seller, so don't ask the question. Sometimes the seller might not lie outright, but will simply imply something. This happens with marketing all of the time, unfortunately.

 

[flashsmith]

There are a couple, and it can work that way, let's just say that it's not as quick and easy.

But there ARE tank BRED acropora.

If you're ever in Key West pay a visit to Dr. Coral. The man's an actual scientist growing hundreds of thousands of frags to be transplanted back on the reefs there. Coloration is natural and has nothing to do with someone cross breeding. It's pure luck kinda like finding a blue pearl in an oyster. Yep you can seed the oyster but it doesn't determine at all what color the pearl will be.

 

[Eric R.]

Congradulations! Perhaps the best post ever on R2R right there. You just did what our public education system won't do. Teach free market capitalism, and the responsability of the end consumer.

It's an excellent example of a market failure due to information asymmetry between the buyer and seller. Also, we do teach economics at our high school, so I'm uncertain why you think public education doesn't teach about markets. I've only gone to public colleges, and have taken all of my economics courses there.

 

[StatelineReefer]

If you're ever in Key West pay a visit to Dr. Coral. The man's an actual scientist growing hundreds of thousands of frags to be transplanted back on the reefs there. Coloration is natural and has nothing to do with someone cross breeding. It's pure luck kinda like finding a blue pearl in an oyster. Yep you can seed the oyster but it doesn't determine at all what color the pearl will be.

Not Coloration, but at least the strain and clade of photoreactive zoox, can be imparted on newly settled coral by introducing a coral with the selected traits nearby.

 

[rtparty]

HIDE THE CORAL THERES POOR PEOPLE AROUND!!

Super elitiest mentality here. “Hobby to expensive, find another one”. Aquarium keeping was once a relatively affordable hobby genius. It’s people like the ones you’re making excuses for making it not so. “There are loads of 10 to 15 dollar corals out there”. Stop lying dude. I have NEVER seen a 10 or 15 dollar coral since like 2005 at a business. Unless it’s some sketchy potheads house selling you a frag with every ailment known to the hobby on it.

“Can’t afford a 100k electric car?” Walk pleb lol

The majority of my tank is $5-10 corals from Tidal Gardens. Bought some for $40-50 and then snag up the cheap deals along the way

 

[Eric R.]

Not Coloration, but at least the strain and clade of photoreactive zoox, can be imparted on newly settled coral by introducing a coral with the selected traits nearby.

Interesting, do you have any more information about this?

 

[Cell]

Do you believe the "little guy" thinks they are selling to a brand name so they can sell it at the same show the Same day?
Most likely I would think they would be selling thinking it wouldn't be on display 5 minutes later for double the money.
This is my problem I have. But, maybe it's just that, my problem.

They don't care. They are running their own business and want to sell their inventory at the prices they set. If this bothered them, they could refuse to sell which would be a good way to fail, or increase their prices which may not make sense for several reasons.

 

[Cell]

Diablo IV time!

 

[StatelineReefer]

Interesting, do you have any more information about this?

Not until my next round of spawnings. Hopefully December10th - 19th again.

Other than that it's just obervations between myself and four other people experimenting with breeding corals from distinct colonies...

 

[Reefer Matt]

I get things bought out from me because I sell too low sometimes. That is just the nature of business. Vendors don't pick and choose who to sell to most of the time. I at least make sure the customer understands what the coral is, and how to care for it though.
It is a tricky balance because if you sell too low, you can be bought out by your competition. If you sell too high, you risk not selling at all. Vendors are there to make money. It is a TON of time and work to setup.

 

[Dburr1014]

They don't care. They are running their own business and want to sell their inventory at the prices they set. If this bothered them, they could refuse to sell which would be a good way to fail, or increase their prices which may not make sense for several reasons.

I get that. Totally.

I just think it should happen anywhere but the show. To me, that's just low class to buy then sell 5 minutes later for double.

 

[lynn.reef.nerd]

HIDE THE CORAL THERES POOR PEOPLE AROUND!!

That makes no sense.

Super elitiest mentality here. “Hobby to expensive, find another one”. Aquarium keeping was once a relatively affordable hobby genius.

It's still affordable. Just stop looking all the the flashy advertisement.

It’s people like the ones you’re making excuses for making it not so. “There are loads of 10 to 15 dollar corals out there”. Stop lying dude. I have NEVER seen a 10 or 15 dollar coral since like 2005 at a business.

You need to look around more. There are TONS of them at every show from good people. Please don't assume when someone is trying to sell reasonable priced items that they don't care about the cleaniest of their system/livestock.

Unless it’s some sketchy potheads house selling you a frag with every ailment known to the hobby on it.

“Can’t afford a 100k electric car?” Walk pleb lol.

I’m not advocating government intervention. I’m saying the people shun them until they go out of business.

There are electric cars out there less than 100k .... I don't know where you are searching for cars.

 

[Troylee]

Pix or it didn’t happen!

 

[vetteguy53081]

I love that everyone loves collecting corals, but I saw something at Reefstock that really, really bothered me. I specific high end coral vendor was buying stuff off of other vendors in order to fleece the crowds by making up names and abusing their reputation as a high end seller in order to make money and proportedly sell things as "rare" or "unique" just because you have a really reputable brand behind you.

This is not okay and I hope you know who you are if you are reading this.

I will not be purchasing from you again and upon asking a local LFS this is not the first year they have done this so I can only believe this behavior is happening at other shows as well.

For the record, it was not Top Shelf Aquatics. They had a good selection and I got some more dragon tongue. It WAS
another nationally recognized brand.

Buying a coral at a show is one thing, but to use your reputation and good brand name to screw over hobbyists is another. I'm pretty upset about it but I just won't ever give them my money.

Not only that but they had a habit of trying to tell customers including myself, "awwww man there's some rare stuff in there" only for me to see them run up to a booth I was at later on and quickly tell a vendor "I'll take these three scolies just charge my card thanks" only to see that they later gave them weird names I'd never heard of.

Not only that, I saw them buy up a hammer coral colony labelled as hammer coral colony and proceed to then take it over, give the name of jack o lantern hammer or something, and charge basically double what the original LFS wanted.


Look, I know you want to make money, everyone there does.

But if you want to sell coral, how about checking your corals in the plane like everyone else instead of ripping off communities of hobbyists around the country.

End of rant.

This just rubbed me the wrong way. The market pays what it can but I have a firm belief that scalping via arbitrage shouldn't be allowed. When a hobbyist asks about your corals, I expect to buy your corals, not some flatworm infested p.o.s. that you bought from the maricultured 7 for $100 area and claimed was a special coral.

Anyone who wants to know the vendor can privately pm me and come to their own conclusions, but I believe it is my duty to spread this awareness as this vendor charges a very, very healthy markup and I can confidently say that this was not consistent with their public image, at all.

Thanks for taking the time to read this, if it was any other vendor I probably wouldn't be so upset about it but I think this is just plain fraud.

I should also note, I have photographic evidence of other vendors complaining about this specific vendor at past events, and lack of truthful provenance of the corals and how they were obtained.

Ive seen this especially being an LFS owner and even at Macna Local LFS buying out booths for nothing and claiming special order.
While its great to see vendors work together, not so on behalf of the consumers. This is just one part of the issues with this industry mainly over the last 5 years and regarding the exorbitant pricing