How I would start a new tank

[Paul B]

It's a shame when new hobbiests first start up a tank and see a little cyano, hair algae or diatoms they panic and come on these forums for advice and almost always are hit with a plethora of suggestions as to what chemicals or animals they should add to remedy something that is a natural, normal process that almost all tanks go through especially if the tank was started with ASW and dry rock.

My main suggestion is first of all to not start a tank using all dry, dead dry rock. You are spending a lot of money on the tank, filters, ASW, rock, skimmers, dosers, lights, chemicals, test kits and some unfortunately, divorce lawyers. (not me).

Get all the live rock you can.

No matter what you do at first, the most important thing we never think about is bacteria and it's the bacteria that run our tanks. They control the algae, cyano, diatoms and general health.

All of the tanks we set up using dry rock and asw will have all sorts of problems and it isn't our fault. Well, if we fill the tank with orange juice and cat litter it may be our fault but a tank, any tank takes time to grow enough of the correct bacteria to settle down and do what it is supposed to do.

If we add chemicals like "Red Slime Remover" Prizapro, copper, antibiotics, "or anything that is not sea water or food we short circuit the process and then are forced to get out of the hobby (after we pay those lawyers, not me) and get a job in Home Depot selling plungers and weed killer.

I have no experience using bottled bacteria so I can't speak of that. Maybe it's the best thing since "aglets". (Those little plastic things on the ends of shoelaces. ) I don't know as we didn't have that stuff when I started at the the same time we invented rocks. We added some dead stuff like a clam or shrimp (some of us added a small, cheap fish. Ok stop squinting up your eyes, we all did that. and many times those silly damsels lived for 10 years and those things can cause us to get out of the hobby)

If you add some dead thing to a tank that has rocks in it but no bacteria, in no time the water will get cloudy and stink a little. You may think your two year old poured your "Half and Half" or "Liquid Plumber" in the tank but she "probably" didn't. If the water gets like that, thats good. But stinky. Go out to dinner and invite yourself to a friends house for a few days. When you come back and the tank is clear, add some more dead stuff.

Then find a different friend to visit because that one won't be speaking to you especially if your dog ruined their carpet.
Anyway, now, after it clears you are ready to add a small fish. Not a Moorish Idol, Lipstick Tang or 3' Moray Eel, maybe a bleeny. You can also add a few crabs. You will have to feed these things and I would feed more than those small critters need because that fish doesn't hardly need food, but the bacteria which is the biggest consumer of things are growing and hungry. They get hungrier every day and we need them to grow and cover everything in the tank.

Those bacteria join gangs and there are many "gangs" of bacteria. Some are good for us and help us by converting, for free, waste products such as ammonia that fish excrete and convert to things we like such as "Sprite and Dr Pepper". But some of those bacteria are lazy and don't do anything we like. Some of them form Cyano which is not really bad but if you are older than about 65 and you saw the movie "The Blob" thats what it looks like and we don't like that.

Some other bacteria form other things like Hydrogen Sulfide, which is also natural and everywhere in the sea, but it will kill everything in our tanks even a Great White Shark which most of us don't want in our tank anyway.

Some bacteria cause disease but those bacteria, if you do this correctly will also not harm anything because our goal is to get our fish in such a state of health that they laugh at disease bacteria like mine do. Mine are laughing now and it is annoying.

Eventually, the bacteria we like will become dominant and help our tanks through the maturation process where the chemical reactions take place naturally without causing to much cyano, hair algae or diatoms, but some of that is normal as the bacteria are still discussing which gang to join and which ones are stronger.

This all may tank a year no matter what your test kit from Walmart that you got on sale for $15.99 tells you. You may think your tank is "cycled" because your ammonia tests zero and your nitrate is 160. It is not cycled and "cycling" to me is a silly criteria. Cycled by a test kit just means that you have enough of the correct bacteria to convert that small amount of ammonia or dead shrimp but it doesn't mean you can add a $400.00 SPS coral with 17- 5" tangs.

We also need to remember that we have viruses, funguses and parasites in there competing and viruses attack bacteria and parasites and bacteria also attack parasites so there is always a war going on and if we could see this, it would be awesome and I am surprised Steven Spielberg never made a movie showing this.

See the Cyano under this beautiful Red Waspfish?

 

[Timfish]

Kudos! WIth all the info we have on microbial processes and how they influence our own physical and mental health it amazes me the research on microbial processes is not only ignored but denigrated by many aquarists!

If I can offer another book in addition to yours I'd suggest Forest ROhwer's "Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas".

 

[Paul B]

Timfish it amazes me that hobbyists, especially new ones never speak of bacteria but instead worry about things like dosers, parameters, ATOs, controllers, quarantine, copper and other less important things even though bacteria control everything including fish health. If they knew about gut bacteria we wouldn't need disease threads. But thats just me.

 

[7of9]

I wonder if it's due in large part to the fact that we're all in a hurry to have our tanks look like mature tanks rather than enjoying the stages in the process? Would just adding livestock slower help, like letting a fish or two just sit for a month or two before adding another? Then waiting a year with just fish before adding a coral, etc?

What kind of timeline would you see as a good one?

Happily, my budget is constrained due to medical bills, so I have no other option but to take things slow this go round!

 

[Doctorgori]

@paul, I think dry rock craze and NSA thing sorta set the hobby back a few years…
(“art” vs function)
Dry Rock absolutely has its place/value, but to your point: it sells a lot of cultured pods and bottled bacteria…

secondly the rise of the “wall to wall SPS stick tank” and the “bug battle” threads got folks mortified about each and every unidentified bug that shows up…
(the shear volume of “good guy or bad guy” threads is amazing!!!

I can’t imagine the newb of today with ole skool Marshall or Tonga rock…heck they would suffer PTSD if they witnessed all the assorted “crawlies” and pods that showed up for months afterwards

IMO someone is better off buying a pound or two of real bonified Gulf rock than ordering bottle after bottle of bacterial solutions… (place new rock in a BB tanks, pull off crabs, worms, isopods, rinse/repeat for 1-2 months…)

 

[Nano_Man]

Bacteria is what it’s all about . Same in humans good gut bacteria which most people don’t even think about . If we didn’t have bacteria good or bad we would all be in some mess . The mis use of antibiotics the bacteria is getting better and better at surviving and beating the antibiotic then there is nothing to give to treat we as humans have got ourselves into a corner using too much antibiotics. Sorry about the rant but yes we need good bacteria in are hobby and lives

 

[MDAquatics]

It's a shame when new hobbiests first start up a tank and see a little cyano, hair algae or diatoms they panic and come on these forums for advice and almost always are hit with a plethora of suggestions as to what chemicals or animals they should add to remedy something that is a natural, normal process that almost all tanks go through especially if the tank was started with ASW and dry rock.

My main suggestion is first of all to not start a tank using all dry, dead dry rock. You are spending a lot of money on the tank, filters, ASW, rock, skimmers, dosers, lights, chemicals, test kits and some unfortunately, divorce lawyers. (not me).

Get all the live rock you can.

No matter what you do at first, the most important thing we never think about is bacteria and it's the bacteria that run our tanks. They control the algae, cyano, diatoms and general health.

All of the tanks we set up using dry rock and asw will have all sorts of problems and it isn't our fault. Well, if we fill the tank with orange juice and cat litter it may be our fault but a tank, any tank takes time to grow enough of the correct bacteria to settle down and do what it is supposed to do.

If we add chemicals like "Red Slime Remover" Prizapro, copper, antibiotics, "or anything that is not sea water or food we short circuit the process and then are forced to get out of the hobby (after we pay those lawyers, not me) and get a job in Home Depot selling plungers and weed killer.

I have no experience using bottled bacteria so I can't speak of that. Maybe it's the best thing since "aglets". (Those little plastic things on the ends of shoelaces. ) I don't know as we didn't have that stuff when I started at the the same time we invented rocks. We added some dead stuff like a clam or shrimp (some of us added a small, cheap fish. Ok stop squinting up your eyes, we all did that. and many times those silly damsels lived for 10 years and those things can cause us to get out of the hobby)

If you add some dead thing to a tank that has rocks in it but no bacteria, in no time the water will get cloudy and stink a little. You may think your two year old poured your "Half and Half" or "Liquid Plumber" in the tank but she "probably" didn't. If the water gets like that, thats good. But stinky. Go out to dinner and invite yourself to a friends house for a few days. When you come back and the tank is clear, add some more dead stuff.

Then find a different friend to visit because that one won't be speaking to you especially if your dog ruined their carpet.
Anyway, now, after it clears you are ready to add a small fish. Not a Moorish Idol, Lipstick Tang or 3' Moray Eel, maybe a bleeny. You can also add a few crabs. You will have to feed these things and I would feed more than those small critters need because that fish doesn't hardly need food, but the bacteria which is the biggest consumer of things are growing and hungry. They get hungrier every day and we need them to grow and cover everything in the tank.

Those bacteria join gangs and there are many "gangs" of bacteria. Some are good for us and help us by converting, for free, waste products such as ammonia that fish excrete and convert to things we like such as "Sprite and Dr Pepper". But some of those bacteria are lazy and don't do anything we like. Some of them form Cyano which is not really bad but if you are older than about 65 and you saw the movie "The Blob" thats what it looks like and we don't like that.

Some other bacteria form other things like Hydrogen Sulfide, which is also natural and everywhere in the sea, but it will kill everything in our tanks even a Great White Shark which most of us don't want in our tank anyway.

Some bacteria cause disease but those bacteria, if you do this correctly will also not harm anything because our goal is to get our fish in such a state of health that they laugh at disease bacteria like mine do. Mine are laughing now and it is annoying.

Eventually, the bacteria we like will become dominant and help our tanks through the maturation process where the chemical reactions take place naturally without causing to much cyano, hair algae or diatoms, but some of that is normal as the bacteria are still discussing which gang to join and which ones are stronger.

This all may tank a year no matter what your test kit from Walmart that you got on sale for $15.99 tells you. You may think your tank is "cycled" because your ammonia tests zero and your nitrate is 160. It is not cycled and "cycling" to me is a silly criteria. Cycled by a test kit just means that you have enough of the correct bacteria to convert that small amount of ammonia or dead shrimp but it doesn't mean you can add a $400.00 SPS coral with 17- 5" tangs.

We also need to remember that we have viruses, funguses and parasites in there competing and viruses attack bacteria and parasites and bacteria also attack parasites so there is always a war going on and if we could see this, it would be awesome and I am surprised Steven Spielberg never made a movie showing this.

See the Cyano under this beautiful Red Waspfish?

What fish is that? Edit: Im a moron, I see it lol

 

[Paul B]

Would just adding livestock slower help, like letting a fish or two just sit for a month or two before adding another? Then waiting a year with just fish before adding a coral, etc?

That would certainly help but I feel the most important thing is real live rock. You can even hold off on the skimmer, doser, ATO, controller and all that expensive not really needed stuff if you get live rock that has everything the sea has including the important bacteria in the correct proportions.

I have never bought a pod or a bottle of bacteria in my life. That is akin to buying bottled air, something that is free.
(sorry people who sell pods, bacteria and air)

Live rock comes with thousands of pods and bacteria all for free. (once you buy the expensive rock)

And the rock is practically free, it's like fish, they are also practically free. It's the shipping that is the cost. Once in the Caribbean I saw a guy on the beach selling tangs, wrasses and all sorts of fish for 50 cents a pound. A Naso tang was probably 25 cents because the natives there eat those things.

The shipper has plenty of expense because of air freight, handling, boxes, bags, electricity and of course that has to be paid for by the consumer. The people in the fish business are not rich people and most of them I assume are just getting by. There is also an enormous loss in that business.

But if we want to be in this hobby, we should first make sure we can feed our family and keep them healthy before we buy fish tank stuff. This hobby is not that expensive, we make it that way.

Live rock will eliminate much problems and costs later on with all the problems dry rock causes.

I have been in this hobby for about 65 years and I couldn't and wouldn't start a tank with dry rock.

The mis use of antibiotics the bacteria is getting better and better at surviving and beating the antibiotic then there is nothing to give to treat we as humans have got ourselves into a corner using too much antibiotics.

Antibiotics are needed for "Humans" sometimes because of our modern life. I myself am going in for a new shoulder in a week and I have to use an antibiotic soap for a few days and take an antibiotic for a while. But that is because of surgery, something most of our fish don't experience. Especially if their insurance doesn't cover it.

I can't think of one instance where I would use an antibiotic on a fish. If we keep them immune like many of our older members do, antibiotics and all medications will never have to be used. I haven't used any medication in decades and none of my fish ever die from a pathogen because I know about bacteria and how it relates to health

What fish is that? Edit: Im a moron, I see it lol

Red Waspfish. Cool isn't he? I have two of them.

 

[7of9]

That would certainly help but I feel the most important thing is real live rock. You can even hold off on the skimmer, doser, ATO, controller and all that expensive not really needed stuff if you get live rock that has everything the sea has including the important bacteria in the correct proportions.

I have never bought a pod or a bottle of bacteria in my life. That is akin to buying bottled air, something that is free.
(sorry people who sell pods, bacteria and air)

Live rock comes with thousands of pods and bacteria all for free. (once you buy the expensive rock)

And the rock is practically free, it's like fish, they are also practically free. It's the shipping that is the cost. Once in the Caribbean I saw a guy on the beach selling tangs, wrasses and all sorts of fish for 50 cents a pound. A Naso tang was probably 25 cents because the natives there eat those things.

The shipper has plenty of expense because of air freight, handling, boxes, bags, electricity and of course that has to be paid for by the consumer. The people in the fish business are not rich people and most of them I assume are just getting by. There is also an enormous loss in that business.

But if we want to be in this hobby, we should first make sure we can feed our family and keep them healthy before we buy fish tank stuff. This hobby is not that expensive, we make it that way.

Live rock will eliminate much problems and costs later on with all the problems dry rock causes.

I have been in this hobby for about 65 years and I couldn't and wouldn't start a tank with dry rock.


Antibiotics are needed for "Humans" sometimes because of our modern life. I myself am going in for a new shoulder in a week and I have to use an antibiotic soap for a few days and take an antibiotic for a while. But that is because of surgery, something most of our fish don't experience. Especially if their insurance doesn't cover it.

I can't think of one instance where I would use an antibiotic on a fish. If we keep them immune like many of our older members do, antibiotics and all medications will never have to be used. I haven't used any medication in decades and none of my fish ever die from a pathogen because I know about bacteria and how it relates to health


Red Waspfish. Cool isn't he? I have two of them.

I'm on a budget, but I'm spending on local live rock. Last time around I got the Tampa Bay Saltwater package and I loved all the life that came with it, but I just can't justify the shipping while I'm paying off surgery bills. I think the local live rock is a good compromise.

How do you source your blackworms? In about a month after I get my rock going, I'm hoping to add a couple of clowns and would like to feed them foods with good bacteria from the start.

Edited to Add - I'm in Wisconsin near the great lakes, but far from any saltwater, so grabbing mud or anything from the ocean isn't really an option for me.

Thanks!

 

[kevgib67]

This should be a must read for all reefers just entering this hobby.

 

[jda]

I would argue that anybody will spend 3-10x as much by not buying real live rock. Even a 20-30 pound pack to seed will do wonders.

It is worth it just for the microfauna that can eat fish disease tomonts, since most people do not QT in any worthwhile manner - most folks don't understand that this will happen, but in the olden days of live rock tanks people always just waited for 6-9 months until their live rock fauna spread to the sand and stuff and then keeping fish was WAY easier. Just one or two lost fish, or a terrible event like a total wipeout, makes live rock really cheap.

Beyond helping with fish diseases, which is not eradication, I swear that people spend more to fight dinos, diatoms and algae than they would have if they just got some real live rock.

 

[djf91]

This can’t be said enough. Every new hobbyist needs to read it. Live rock is in my opinion the most important thing for success in this hobby. Getting your tank off on the right foot, with the proper bacteria species in the proper ratios, will save you a ton of time, money, and headaches.

My most recent systems that have been started with mostly dry rock have been a painful and long learning curve. 20 years ago when I was starting my first reef, I didn’t have all of the testing equipment, dosers, powerheads, technology, etc. that I do now and the tanks still seemed to thrive compared to what I have now. The only big thing that I can say has changed is pacific live rock vs dry rock. Bacteria/ microfauna decides everything in your reef tank. Introduce the right stuff from the beginning.

 

[Nano_Man]

That would certainly help but I feel the most important thing is real live rock. You can even hold off on the skimmer, doser, ATO, controller and all that expensive not really needed stuff if you get live rock that has everything the sea has including the important bacteria in the correct proportions.

I have never bought a pod or a bottle of bacteria in my life. That is akin to buying bottled air, something that is free.
(sorry people who sell pods, bacteria and air)

Live rock comes with thousands of pods and bacteria all for free. (once you buy the expensive rock)

And the rock is practically free, it's like fish, they are also practically free. It's the shipping that is the cost. Once in the Caribbean I saw a guy on the beach selling tangs, wrasses and all sorts of fish for 50 cents a pound. A Naso tang was probably 25 cents because the natives there eat those things.

The shipper has plenty of expense because of air freight, handling, boxes, bags, electricity and of course that has to be paid for by the consumer. The people in the fish business are not rich people and most of them I assume are just getting by. There is also an enormous loss in that business.

But if we want to be in this hobby, we should first make sure we can feed our family and keep them healthy before we buy fish tank stuff. This hobby is not that expensive, we make it that way.

Live rock will eliminate much problems and costs later on with all the problems dry rock causes.

I have been in this hobby for about 65 years and I couldn't and wouldn't start a tank with dry rock.


Antibiotics are needed for "Humans" sometimes because of our modern life. I myself am going in for a new shoulder in a week and I have to use an antibiotic soap for a few days and take an antibiotic for a while. But that is because of surgery, something most of our fish don't experience. Especially if their insurance doesn't cover it.

I can't think of one instance where I would use an antibiotic on a fish. If we keep them immune like many of our older members do, antibiotics and all medications will never have to be used. I haven't used any medication in decades and none of my fish ever die from a pathogen because I know about bacteria and how it relates to health


Red Waspfish. Cool isn't he? I have two of them.

Yep if I had read your articles in the nineties I would have saved my self a lot of money on equipment that was not needed. Now both my little nanos are now fully natural no dosing the use of nsw and natural wet sand and there is no problems weekly water changes As far as live rock you can not beat it imo. That’s the only I have always used. In every tank apart from my native nano . Just my thoughts I am going to dig some worms out the garden for my nems dinner tonight. Paul thank you for your natural way of thinking and sharing

 

[djf91]

Some may disagree, but I would argue it is the single most important investment you can make in your tank.

 

[Paul B]

How do you source your blackworms?

I can't get them here but I raise whiteworms which live in salt water for 5 days. I love them and they are practically free. I bought a $15.00 culture of them about 12 years ago and I got millions of worms. Throw some in the tank and the mandarins, copperbands etc, will hunt them out and find every one as they don't burrow under the sand.

Older, seasoned hobbyists post this stuff all the time but many choose to take advice from someone who started the hobby a week from last Tuesday because they kept a Moorish Idol for a week feeding him Mrs Pauls Fish Sticks or Hostess Twinkies and the fish isn't yet covered in ich or Brooklyina whatever that is.

 

[Paul B]

Some may disagree, but I would argue it is the single most important investment you can make in your tank.

I think I said that, but you said it so much more eloquently.

 

[jda]

One last thing and then I will stop just focusing on rock, but the caves and arches that humans make out of their dry/dead rock to create a bonsai garden are not usually good for fish. Maybe this is just me, but fish seem to feel more secure, are less aggressive and easier going when they have places to fully get away and hide. Stacked up rock does a better job at this, which real live rock is great for. If one is going to make a bonsai tree type of aqua scape, then I would stick to tank raised fish which are used to such living arrangements. I would caution anybody to think long and hard about buying dry rock to make caves and arches since this is a double whammy to fish being 1). sterile environment for fish diseases to thrive and 2). no good places for the fish to escape and feel secure.

You need fish waste to get available types of building blocks to the corals and other microfauna, so treat your fish well and they will treat you well in return. The rock makes a great home for the fish in many ways.

 

[Paul B]

Jda, that is of utmost importance and one reason fish in quarantine don't fare very well. Home Depot elbows don't do it and stress fish immensely unless they were raised in a hardware store. If I put a stark white plastic plumbing fitting in my tank, my fish would stay on the other side of the tank for a month.

Fish need, almost before anything else a natural hiding place that is tight enough that the fish feels that a moray eel that he doesn't know you are not keeping with him but he wants to feel safe from it. The hiding places need to be tight and out of sight so we can't see the fish. Even if we look like Angelina Jolie, Brad Pitt, or his brother Arm Pitt the fish don't want to see us. Remember someone that looked like us captured him and stuck him in a plastic bag, then fed him pellets that he hates.

My tank is 6' long and the fish can traverse the entire tank well hidden from me. I have some fish in there that I may only see once a month if at all. We don't like that but the fish need it.

(This was right after I eliminated invasive sponge and had to remove the rock, then replace it so it grew algae which is now gone)

 

[Nano_Man]

Jda, that is of utmost importance and one reason fish in quarantine don't fare very well. Home Depot elbows don't do it and stress fish immensely unless they were raised in a hardware store. If I put a stark white plastic plumbing fitting in my tank, my fish would stay on the other side of the tank for a month.

Fish need, almost before anything else a natural hiding place that is tight enough that the fish feels that a moray eel that he doesn't know you are not keeping with him but he wants to feel safe from it. The hiding places need to be tight and out of sight so we can't see the fish. Even if we look like Angelina Jolie, Brad Pitt, or his brother Arm Pitt the fish don't want to see us. Remember someone that looked like us captured him and stuck him in a plastic bag, then fed him pellets that he hates.

My tank is 6' long and the fish can traverse the entire tank well hidden from me. I have some fish in there that I may only see once a month if at all. We don't like that but the fish need it.

(This was right after I eliminated invasive sponge and had to remove the rock, then replace it so it grew algae which is now gone)

My last input but that picture says a million good and great things to me just need Paul b knowledge Paul you need to get writing after the shoulder op . Good luck

 

[EliMelly]

I haven’t had anything since diatoms fingers crossed… I used bottled bacteria to start the cycle and 30 pounds of live rock.