jessezm
Well-Known Member
I could use a little advice from the resident experts (at the risk of exposing myself to a bit of criticism for the typical mistakes - going too fast, changing too many things at once, etc, etc...),
But I am really confused about constant high alk and pH readings in my tank. Part of the issue may be that the tank was set up very recently and I've made a lot of changes/additions without things having time to stabilize. Let's just take that as a given, but even so, I am having trouble understanding the source of the tank's high pH and Alk (High as in pH reaching 8.6 and Alk in the 15 - 16 dKh range, calcium 500 ppm and mag 1425 )
Sorry for the following novel, it's just background and you can skim/skip to the end where my actual questions are:
Background - I am building a system that will eventually have a 150 - 200gal DT in on my main floor, plumbed into a basement sump and frag tank. Currently, the 45G frag tank, 30 gallon sump, and 30 gallon remote pond liner refugium are up and running. The frag tank and sump have been up and running 3 weeks now, and the refugium was plumbed in this past Sunday.
Because of the end goal I have in mind, I've purchased equipment opportunistically that is sized to handle the final system volume. This includes:
Frag tank: Deep Blue 45 gal 48" long
Skimmer: Reef Octopus Regal 250 SSS
Water source: local Atlanta municipal goes in RO/DI at 62 tds, comes out 0 from the RO membrane then 0 again from the DI resin
Reactors: Korallin C-1502 (calcium), Korallin S-3002 (sulfur denitrator), BRS dual GAC & GFO
Lighting: Giessemann Aurora 60" T5/LED combo
Return pump: Neptune Cor20
JBJ Arctica Commercial 1/2 hp chiller
Flow: 2X MP40s, 2X jebao flow pumps
Sump: Eshopps 300-ADV with Chaeto on reverse light cycle in fuge section
Remote Fuge: 33 gal pond liner/pool with about 60 additional lbs of live rock
There is no sandbed in the frag tank or refugia - I will eventually have one in the main tank when I set that up.
The tank is set up with a 1" durso drain going to the sump and the 3/4" return line serving as a second drain - just a standpipe - to the remote refugium. I made an external manifold for the return line.
When I set the tank up initially, I had about 40 lbs of liverock that was fully cycled and went right into the tank. I added another 70 lbs or so after that (from two other local tanks), which pretty much took up the entire frag tank (I have since moved half to the remote refugium, where I may add more to the system, with Mangroves as well).
I wasn't going to add any critters for a while but when I purchased a load of stuff from a local breaking down his tank, I had to take some fish and corals so he could shut the tank down and sell me the equipment. So that's how I ended up with fish/corals so fast.
Everything has been in there and thriving for about two weeks. I have constantly been monitoring the nitrates, phosphates, mg, ca, alk, pH and temp.
Bioload includes:
Fish/CUC:
-a 4" yellow tang
-2 clown pairs
-some little purple guy I hardly ever see
-hermits and snails
-2 emerald grabs
-fire shrimp
-peppermint shrimp
Corals:
-two large rocks covered in Zoanthids
-two large encrusting montis (6")
-two plating montis (4")
-6" and 4" chunk of some blue tort
-10" across colony of shades of fall acro
-cyphastrea
-favia
-acan
-monti digitata
-Millipora frag and encrusted rock where there used to be a colony
-several other smaller sPS frags and another small acro colony
Salt mix is HW Marinemix reefer, which my Salifert test kits say mixes up at a pH of 8.4 and Alk of 10 dkh (they state 9, so maybe my test kit is off a bit?)
Other details:
The biodenitrator had been running for a while on a 20G AIO that I'm using as a QT - it came off an active aquarium and I wanted to keep the bacteria alive so I just plugged it into that system and then transferred it to my frag tank once that was set up.
I just recently brought the calcium reactor online last week, thinking I could set it up to run very low as it is a recirculating type. But I took it offline on Sunday.
So let me get to the questions:
I'll start by saying that so far, all the corals are looking healthy and exhibiting normal behavior as far as I can tell. Good polyp extension on the acros and LPS extending feeders at night and always look colorful and "plump"
So for what it's worth, none of the high readings seem to have had an immediate impact. Long term we will have to see.
Troubles started May 30th when I plugged in the Calcium reactor. I tested the levels beforehand and read:
pH 8.24
Alk: 7.8
CA: 470
NO3: 2
Mg: 1350
Po4: 0.1
One week before they were:
pH 8.15
Alk: 9.5
CA: 470
NO3: 10
Mg: 1440
Po4: 0.25
Well after plugging in the calcium reactor (using recommended ARM media), I set it to an internal pH of 6.45 and a drip rate of about 60 drops/min and let it run. I watched my Apex via Fusion from work all day and watched the pH steadily climb to a high of 8.54 late in the afternoon. In the next day or two I did a pretty big water change - about 15 gals (before the remote fuge was plumbed in so that's about 25%). pH swung up again the next day to a high of 8.57. I did not measure alk at that time.
Just since I know yall will ask, I did calibrate the tank probe twice, and the calcium reactor probe as well (which was brand new). The tank probe is a bit old so I do suspect it may be reading high, and my salifert test kit reads about .2 to .05 lower, depending on my mood and the tilt of the sun...
Anyways, I read a bunch of articles about those pH readings not being a problem, so I stopped worrying about it. Then I did a really stupid thing. I came home friday with a big butt shades of fall acro colony a local reefer needed out of his tank, and was taking rocks out of the tank to make room when I realized I left my ATO on. OOOoohhhh I forgot to mention I had mixed in some Kalkwasser in my ATO as well on 5/30, which surely contributed to the daily pH increases (though I am not evaporating a of water at the moment - maybe .5 to 1l per day, and the high pH swings started with the addition of the calcium reactor, not the kalkwasser)
Anyways, long story short, I spiked the tank with about 1.5 or 2 gallons of saturated kalkwasser, and the pH shot up to about 9.1. Thankfully I had fresh salt mixed up as well as a 32g brute of fresh RO/DI water. I proceeded to do 3 12gal water changes over the next 3 hours, which brought the pH back down to 8.67. Then I cranked up the CO2 and effluent from my calcium reactor and the pH seemed to stabilize finally after another hour or two at 8.41 (turned down the reactor again after that)
So at about 12:30am Friday, levels were back to:
pH: 8.41
Alk: 14.1
CA: 465
Crisis averted, right? Well not so much. The next day, everything in the tank still looked fine, but I tested my alkalinity on Saturday and it was 15.7. I didn't do anything at first but then decided to dial the calcium reactor down (less effluent, less co2, ph raised to about 7.3 from 6.4). I spent all day Sunday plumbing in the new remote refugium and got that running, which added about 25 gal of fresh mixed saltwater to the equation. Everything still looking great.
Monday night I come home after watching nervously another day where the pH rose to 8.61 (I had removed kalkwasser from the ATO on Saturday, cleaned the reservoir, and replaced with fresh RO/DI water, so it wasn't due to new kalk being added).
When I got home I tested the Alk and it was 16.5! tested again and same reading. Used the same test kit to test fresh mixed salt and it read 10 (they advertise 9dkh, so the kit could be off a point?)
Anyhow I was worried about the long term affects of this rising alk, so I did some research and decided to do a water change again, but lower the alk in the new salt mix with muriatic acid. I went to Walmart and got a name brand that is 20% hcl, and followed directions for lowering alk. I think I added 12ml of the stuff to 20 gal of new mix, then aerated all night and changed the water this morning. I tested the new mix before adding it and it had a dkh of 7.2.
I also added 6ml directly to the skimmer compartment last night. Both had the result of lowering pH temporarily and dropping the alkalinity by about 2 dkh total. But again today the pH climbed to 8.57. I did find however the dkh is dropping some. This afternoon it was 13.5 and I dropped it again with 5 ml of muriatic acid to where it sits now at 11.5. Calcium is still reading 500+ppm, and pH went from 8.58 to 8.41.
My plan now is to just not touch a thing at this point. The calcium reactor is offline, no kalk in the ATO, skimmer is running and biodentrator still running. Also the carbon and GFO reactor has been running since sunday.
I guess what I'm trying to understand is why is the pH so high in the tank, and is that a symptom of high alk or a cause? I really have to brush up on my reef chemistry and Im sure I'll get a lot of flack for all this, but what I really want to figure out is if there is something else I'm doing that I'm not aware of or something in the tank causing the high alk? Or is it simply a lingering result of the kalk overdose that will slowly go away as it's consumed (I have several SPS colonies going now, and hopefully the coraline algae will start consuming it as well). Or is it from the effluent of the calcium reactor before I took that offline?
Could it be a result of having no sandbed? could there be something in the brand new rubbermaids or the pond liner? I use for water mixing and refugium?
All the rock was natural not manmade and had been cycled for years in stable aquaria so I don't think it was leaching
So I guess that's it. I want to quick messing with the chemicals and changing things around, but I also don't want the pH to keep creeping up past 8.5 as it has been every day...
I'll watch it tomorrow and report back the calcium/alk/Mg/pH when I get home in the evening, but is there anything else I need to be doing or thinking about?
Bracing myself for feedback...
But I am really confused about constant high alk and pH readings in my tank. Part of the issue may be that the tank was set up very recently and I've made a lot of changes/additions without things having time to stabilize. Let's just take that as a given, but even so, I am having trouble understanding the source of the tank's high pH and Alk (High as in pH reaching 8.6 and Alk in the 15 - 16 dKh range, calcium 500 ppm and mag 1425 )
Sorry for the following novel, it's just background and you can skim/skip to the end where my actual questions are:
Background - I am building a system that will eventually have a 150 - 200gal DT in on my main floor, plumbed into a basement sump and frag tank. Currently, the 45G frag tank, 30 gallon sump, and 30 gallon remote pond liner refugium are up and running. The frag tank and sump have been up and running 3 weeks now, and the refugium was plumbed in this past Sunday.
Because of the end goal I have in mind, I've purchased equipment opportunistically that is sized to handle the final system volume. This includes:
Frag tank: Deep Blue 45 gal 48" long
Skimmer: Reef Octopus Regal 250 SSS
Water source: local Atlanta municipal goes in RO/DI at 62 tds, comes out 0 from the RO membrane then 0 again from the DI resin
Reactors: Korallin C-1502 (calcium), Korallin S-3002 (sulfur denitrator), BRS dual GAC & GFO
Lighting: Giessemann Aurora 60" T5/LED combo
Return pump: Neptune Cor20
JBJ Arctica Commercial 1/2 hp chiller
Flow: 2X MP40s, 2X jebao flow pumps
Sump: Eshopps 300-ADV with Chaeto on reverse light cycle in fuge section
Remote Fuge: 33 gal pond liner/pool with about 60 additional lbs of live rock
There is no sandbed in the frag tank or refugia - I will eventually have one in the main tank when I set that up.
The tank is set up with a 1" durso drain going to the sump and the 3/4" return line serving as a second drain - just a standpipe - to the remote refugium. I made an external manifold for the return line.
When I set the tank up initially, I had about 40 lbs of liverock that was fully cycled and went right into the tank. I added another 70 lbs or so after that (from two other local tanks), which pretty much took up the entire frag tank (I have since moved half to the remote refugium, where I may add more to the system, with Mangroves as well).
I wasn't going to add any critters for a while but when I purchased a load of stuff from a local breaking down his tank, I had to take some fish and corals so he could shut the tank down and sell me the equipment. So that's how I ended up with fish/corals so fast.
Everything has been in there and thriving for about two weeks. I have constantly been monitoring the nitrates, phosphates, mg, ca, alk, pH and temp.
Bioload includes:
Fish/CUC:
-a 4" yellow tang
-2 clown pairs
-some little purple guy I hardly ever see
-hermits and snails
-2 emerald grabs
-fire shrimp
-peppermint shrimp
Corals:
-two large rocks covered in Zoanthids
-two large encrusting montis (6")
-two plating montis (4")
-6" and 4" chunk of some blue tort
-10" across colony of shades of fall acro
-cyphastrea
-favia
-acan
-monti digitata
-Millipora frag and encrusted rock where there used to be a colony
-several other smaller sPS frags and another small acro colony
Salt mix is HW Marinemix reefer, which my Salifert test kits say mixes up at a pH of 8.4 and Alk of 10 dkh (they state 9, so maybe my test kit is off a bit?)
Other details:
The biodenitrator had been running for a while on a 20G AIO that I'm using as a QT - it came off an active aquarium and I wanted to keep the bacteria alive so I just plugged it into that system and then transferred it to my frag tank once that was set up.
I just recently brought the calcium reactor online last week, thinking I could set it up to run very low as it is a recirculating type. But I took it offline on Sunday.
So let me get to the questions:
I'll start by saying that so far, all the corals are looking healthy and exhibiting normal behavior as far as I can tell. Good polyp extension on the acros and LPS extending feeders at night and always look colorful and "plump"
So for what it's worth, none of the high readings seem to have had an immediate impact. Long term we will have to see.
Troubles started May 30th when I plugged in the Calcium reactor. I tested the levels beforehand and read:
pH 8.24
Alk: 7.8
CA: 470
NO3: 2
Mg: 1350
Po4: 0.1
One week before they were:
pH 8.15
Alk: 9.5
CA: 470
NO3: 10
Mg: 1440
Po4: 0.25
Well after plugging in the calcium reactor (using recommended ARM media), I set it to an internal pH of 6.45 and a drip rate of about 60 drops/min and let it run. I watched my Apex via Fusion from work all day and watched the pH steadily climb to a high of 8.54 late in the afternoon. In the next day or two I did a pretty big water change - about 15 gals (before the remote fuge was plumbed in so that's about 25%). pH swung up again the next day to a high of 8.57. I did not measure alk at that time.
Just since I know yall will ask, I did calibrate the tank probe twice, and the calcium reactor probe as well (which was brand new). The tank probe is a bit old so I do suspect it may be reading high, and my salifert test kit reads about .2 to .05 lower, depending on my mood and the tilt of the sun...
Anyways, I read a bunch of articles about those pH readings not being a problem, so I stopped worrying about it. Then I did a really stupid thing. I came home friday with a big butt shades of fall acro colony a local reefer needed out of his tank, and was taking rocks out of the tank to make room when I realized I left my ATO on. OOOoohhhh I forgot to mention I had mixed in some Kalkwasser in my ATO as well on 5/30, which surely contributed to the daily pH increases (though I am not evaporating a of water at the moment - maybe .5 to 1l per day, and the high pH swings started with the addition of the calcium reactor, not the kalkwasser)
Anyways, long story short, I spiked the tank with about 1.5 or 2 gallons of saturated kalkwasser, and the pH shot up to about 9.1. Thankfully I had fresh salt mixed up as well as a 32g brute of fresh RO/DI water. I proceeded to do 3 12gal water changes over the next 3 hours, which brought the pH back down to 8.67. Then I cranked up the CO2 and effluent from my calcium reactor and the pH seemed to stabilize finally after another hour or two at 8.41 (turned down the reactor again after that)
So at about 12:30am Friday, levels were back to:
pH: 8.41
Alk: 14.1
CA: 465
Crisis averted, right? Well not so much. The next day, everything in the tank still looked fine, but I tested my alkalinity on Saturday and it was 15.7. I didn't do anything at first but then decided to dial the calcium reactor down (less effluent, less co2, ph raised to about 7.3 from 6.4). I spent all day Sunday plumbing in the new remote refugium and got that running, which added about 25 gal of fresh mixed saltwater to the equation. Everything still looking great.
Monday night I come home after watching nervously another day where the pH rose to 8.61 (I had removed kalkwasser from the ATO on Saturday, cleaned the reservoir, and replaced with fresh RO/DI water, so it wasn't due to new kalk being added).
When I got home I tested the Alk and it was 16.5! tested again and same reading. Used the same test kit to test fresh mixed salt and it read 10 (they advertise 9dkh, so the kit could be off a point?)
Anyhow I was worried about the long term affects of this rising alk, so I did some research and decided to do a water change again, but lower the alk in the new salt mix with muriatic acid. I went to Walmart and got a name brand that is 20% hcl, and followed directions for lowering alk. I think I added 12ml of the stuff to 20 gal of new mix, then aerated all night and changed the water this morning. I tested the new mix before adding it and it had a dkh of 7.2.
I also added 6ml directly to the skimmer compartment last night. Both had the result of lowering pH temporarily and dropping the alkalinity by about 2 dkh total. But again today the pH climbed to 8.57. I did find however the dkh is dropping some. This afternoon it was 13.5 and I dropped it again with 5 ml of muriatic acid to where it sits now at 11.5. Calcium is still reading 500+ppm, and pH went from 8.58 to 8.41.
My plan now is to just not touch a thing at this point. The calcium reactor is offline, no kalk in the ATO, skimmer is running and biodentrator still running. Also the carbon and GFO reactor has been running since sunday.
I guess what I'm trying to understand is why is the pH so high in the tank, and is that a symptom of high alk or a cause? I really have to brush up on my reef chemistry and Im sure I'll get a lot of flack for all this, but what I really want to figure out is if there is something else I'm doing that I'm not aware of or something in the tank causing the high alk? Or is it simply a lingering result of the kalk overdose that will slowly go away as it's consumed (I have several SPS colonies going now, and hopefully the coraline algae will start consuming it as well). Or is it from the effluent of the calcium reactor before I took that offline?
Could it be a result of having no sandbed? could there be something in the brand new rubbermaids or the pond liner? I use for water mixing and refugium?
All the rock was natural not manmade and had been cycled for years in stable aquaria so I don't think it was leaching
So I guess that's it. I want to quick messing with the chemicals and changing things around, but I also don't want the pH to keep creeping up past 8.5 as it has been every day...
I'll watch it tomorrow and report back the calcium/alk/Mg/pH when I get home in the evening, but is there anything else I need to be doing or thinking about?
Bracing myself for feedback...
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