High electric bill

[ReefHunter006]

This is very well said, and is the case here in California.

I am on the Central Coast in California. We recently had some solar quotes done, The cheap one was $35,000 which was 18 panels in two 5 kW h batteries.

My electric bill is roughly 400 bucks a month. Where I to pull the trigger on that I would be paying $35,000 to have the system bought and paid for. If I had to take out a loan for that. Right now you're looking at at least 6% at 10 years. A 35k loan will end up costing 46,628.
If they will let you borrow $35,000. Lots of times it is cheaper to take out a much larger loan and then pay back the difference, for a slightly better rate.
So if I were to do that I would be paying roughly 400 bucks a month to the the loan instead of the power company.
However, this system doesn't get you down to absolute zero. And now PG&e is adding a flat fee to the bill just to be hooked up to the power lines which we all get to see next month. By the way, that wasn't voted on by the power commission.

NEM 3 means any additional power that I've made that doesn't go to the batteries goes back to the grid at probably about 1 or 2 cents.

We'll see how it goes here. I am fortunate enough that I am capable of installing my own system, getting the price down to about $15,000 buying everything online through a company that helps you submit your permits. The installation manager at my company has done four solar systems now, so should I go this route? He will help me. But most people don't have that ability.

Can you recommend that service?

 

[PeterC99]

Bay Area

900 sq ft house

$700-$950/mth

Bay Area

For electricity???

Do you know your average kHW used per month and rate per kHW?

 

[cilyjr]

Can you recommend that service?

I'm sure what you mean?
The company that help you design the system and send you the permits to file? There are three or four of them. I don't make any recommendations on them yet because I am in the early stages of looking into it.

 

[cilyjr]

Another thing we are having to deal with is the fact that PG&e has prioritized shareholder profit over the last several decades while neglecting infrastructure.
They are now faced with having to update all of that and bury a lot of it because the state is requiring it. Not only that they are dealing with massive lawsuits and fines from the fires that were caused by neglecting the infrastructure and prioritizing shareholder profit.

They're not going to simply absorb that cost they're going to spread it around for all of us to enjoy!

 

[gbroadbridge]

This is very well said, and is the case here in California.

I am on the Central Coast in California. We recently had some solar quotes done, The cheap one was $35,000 which was 18 panels in two 5 kW h batteries.

I don't understand why those quotes are so ridiculously high, the wholesale cost of the panels and batteries are very low at the moment all around the world.

 

[ReefHunter006]

For electricity???

Do you know your average kHW used per month and rate per kHW?

Believe me. I want to do anything to lower it.

 

[cilyjr]

I don't understand why those quotes are so ridiculously high, the wholesale cost of the panels and batteries are very low at the moment all around the world.

My understanding is extremely high tariffs on Chinese made solar panels caused a backlog. The Chinese intern sold them throughout the rest of the world sometimes even at a loss. That's why in Europe it is cheaper than it's ever been.
At least that was one article that I read

 

[gbroadbridge]

Another thing we are having to deal with is the fact that PG&e has prioritized shareholder profit over the last several decades while neglecting infrastructure.
They are now faced with having to update all of that and bury a lot of it because the state is requiring it. Not only that they are dealing with massive lawsuits and fines from the fires that were caused by neglecting the infrastructure and prioritizing shareholder profit.

They're not going to simply absorb that cost they're going to spread it around for all of us to enjoy!

And really that is wasted money.

Power generation with solar happens close to the consumer, so building new wires and poles to carry energy around the countryside is simply how things were done last century.

They should be building large scale battery storage at the community level and subsidising the installation of solar generation at the consumer level.

 

[Jimbo327]

This is very well said, and is the case here in California.

I am on the Central Coast in California. We recently had some solar quotes done, The cheap one was $35,000 which was 18 panels in two 5 kW h batteries.

My electric bill is roughly 400 bucks a month. Where I to pull the trigger on that I would be paying $35,000 to have the system bought and paid for. If I had to take out a loan for that. Right now you're looking at at least 6% at 10 years. A 35k loan will end up costing 46,628.
If they will let you borrow $35,000. Lots of times it is cheaper to take out a much larger loan and then pay back the difference, for a slightly better rate.
So if I were to do that I would be paying roughly 400 bucks a month to the the loan instead of the power company.
However, this system doesn't get you down to absolute zero. And now PG&e is adding a flat fee to the bill just to be hooked up to the power lines which we all get to see next month. By the way, that wasn't voted on by the power commission.

NEM 3 means any additional power that I've made that doesn't go to the batteries goes back to the grid at probably about 1 or 2 cents.

We'll see how it goes here. I am fortunate enough that I am capable of installing my own system, getting the price down to about $15,000 buying everything online through a company that helps you submit your permits. The installation manager at my company has done four solar systems now, so should I go this route? He will help me. But most people don't have that ability.

Luckily, I'm grandfathered and locked into NEM 2.0 for 20 years. I was able to add the batteries to avoid some of the new "transmission" charges and avoid the peak rates. So I'm sitting pretty for awhile.

I think solar makes sense in your situation because you are getting a huge savings in installing yourself. But I think the sweet spot will be sizing the battery so that you draw and store as much solar power and not go back into the grid. Good luck.

 

[cilyjr]

They should be building large scale battery storage at the community level and subsidising the installation of solar generation at the consumer level.

This would be smart forward thinking. Sadly that's not in the shareholder interest this month.

They should be taking modest profit and investing the lion's share of the money back into the system. I tend to have a pretty libertarian view on things, but this is one company that I would not be completely upset if the government took it over.

 

[cilyjr]

Luckily, I'm grandfathered and locked into NEM 2.0 for 20 years. I was able to add the batteries to avoid some of the new "transmission" charges and avoid the peak rates. So I'm sitting pretty for awhile.

I think solar makes sense in your situation because you are getting a huge savings in installing yourself. But I think the sweet spot will be sizing the battery so that you draw and store as much solar power and not go back into the grid. Good luck.

Thanks. The other thing for me is my equipment room for my tank is actually a well insulated shed. But that still means the thousand watts of heat are primarily at night. Making my overnight usage a little north of a 10 KWH battery system. Ideally I would get three 5kwh batteries, but I have a hard time spending the money on battery technology right now when I feel there are some big breakthroughs around the corner. Maybe I'm wrong.

That's why I keep going back to a tankless water heater with a freshwater heat exchange loop to heat the tank. Heck, maybe I will cut three sola tubes over the top and get rid of all the lights too!

 

[Jimbo327]

Thanks. The other thing for me is my equipment room for my tank is actually a well insulated shed. But that still means the thousand watts of heat are primarily at night. Making my overnight usage a little north of a 10 KWH battery system. Ideally I would get three 5kwh batteries, but I have a hard time spending the money on battery technology right now when I feel there are some big breakthroughs around the corner. Maybe I'm wrong.

That's why I keep going back to a tankless water heater with a freshwater heat exchange loop to heat the tank. Heck, maybe I will cut three sola tubes over the top and get rid of all the lights too!

Where is all of your heat loss coming from? If you shed is well insulated, it should be okay, right? The main tank is in the house, and so it should be temp controlled well.

 

[cilyjr]

Where is all of your heat loss coming from? If you shed is well insulated, it should be okay, right? The main tank is in the house, and so it should be temp controlled well.

It's no worse than anyone's standard heat loss but it's a fairly big system and with 2 500 watt heaters. When I did the math about 900 a year, granted that's if every month was February so I estimate maybe 600 a year.

 

[KStatefan]

My understanding is extremely high tariffs on Chinese made solar panels caused a backlog. The Chinese intern sold them throughout the rest of the world sometimes even at a loss. That's why in Europe it is cheaper than it's ever been.
At least that was one article that I read

I think the 30% tax credit also has caused some of these price increases. Some in demand and some margin increases. Ie if the customer get 30% back I want 5 of it.
I am in the process of installing geothermal and most quotes I got backed talked about how much of a tax credit I would get before the total price. I have been waiting 5 months to get my wells drilled. Last summer there was a program for farmers to get solar water wells installed that were in the extreme drought area which has put the well drillers way behind and with the cost of equipment it is not a business that can be started easily.

 

[Nano_Man]

$0 - runs from Solar 95% of the time

Yep that’s the way to go free electricity
Ii can see more and more will run there tanks this way

 

[Tonycass12]

I'm in michigan, Bill averages around 280 a month with our local electrical Co op. Way cheaper then the larger utility in my state DTE. My bills tend to be 30$ more a month since I got back into the hobby a few years ago then before hand.

Spoke with the co ops electrical engineer last year after changing to a tankless hot water heater. We started blowing fuses on our transformer out on the pole as well as causing some arc breaks in the line from the pole to our home. One of the first things he mentioned was you seam to have a higher then average usage for most folks with your size home and asked if I could explain what that was. Told him I have a large saltwater aquarium and he replied with pot is legal so it's ok if it's just that too..... ITS NOT POT lol.

 

[MnFish1]

20 Panels.

How did it work out in the winter - any problems (I don't remember when you installed)

 

[MnFish1]

20 panels got one person 930kwh in a month, for 16k

Well, what do I need ?

3x20 panels = 2,700 kWh which would get most months covered

16k x 3 = $48,000

Current avg elec bill is around $250

48,000 / 250 = 16 years of electric bills

So I can pay the electric company or I can pay the solar company. I maybe oversimplifying but I don’t see the difference.

Well - you will get some credits on your taxes potentially - but I generally agree with you.

 

[MnFish1]

I had 39 panels installed in 2019. I think the average return on investment is ~7 years for solar. So I have a couple more years before I actually see the benefits on the heavy upfront solar investment. This is my forever home, so I was willing to shoulder that huge cost.

Electric company keeps changing the TOU (time of use) plans and increasing "transmission" cost to screw the solar folks, and the only way to stay ahead is to install batteries so it is more direct from panel to house to avoid transmission costs and using battery during peak hours instead of drawing from the grid.

With the EV mandates, crypto mining, and AI revolution...unfortunately, I only see electricity demand and costs going higher.

It's funny the quote we got was 75,000 (original price 98,000. Our electric bill is 400-500/month. We would have qualified for a tax credit bringing the cost down, so to actually 'save' money, we would need about 10 years (calculated by the vendor). He also then said 'of course after 10 or so years, the panels may need reparing/replacement, but that generally they should last 25-30 years. In the end we decided against it since we probably won't be in this house in 10 years.

 

[Jimbo327]

Panels should be warranties for 25 years, and the power for 30 years.

The harder part is to find a company and installer that will be around that long. One of the reason why I chose Panasonic brand panels, it's a bit more...but warranties don't mean jack when those smaller companies go out of business.