Help with Selecting CUC in high p04 tank

[DxMarinefish]

Hi,
My 250+ gallon mixed reef got neglected this year due to looking after my sick mother & her eventual passing away, 3 pumps failing, pipe leaks, metal corrosion in DT, you name it.
Anything that could go wrong did in 2021.

Just a horrible year.

I have been reefing for over 15 years, never had such a horrible year.

My p04 is reading is 0.017ppb Hanna ULR, which I calculate as 0.52ppm. ;Shamefullyembarrased I am currently running Seachem Phosguard and Rowaphos. p04 has gone down from being much higher a few weeks ago.

I have also gotten my two ATS running again after the S1 pump failed. It was off for 2-3 months or so.

I am currently running Seachem CupriSorb Filter Media to deal with any metal contaminates.

I have also implemented a skimmer to help.

My question is:
Q1 - Is it safe to get some CUC to help with the Algae growth in the DT?
Q2 - If it's a yes for Q1, which one(s) can I get that can tolerate the high p04.

My Nitrates are currently 10, down from over 70 a few weeks ago, but with the 2x ATS running now, they have dived down. I used to nitrates at about 8-10 which the tank liked. But I know the low Nitrates is also because my DT has enough Algae to store them and also hold some p04.

At the moment I have only 2 surviving CUC - 1x Strawberry conch, and 1x cleaner shrimp.

I have GHA, red slime, some brownish hairy algae all over the tank. I know not much will eat the red slime stuff.

Fish that have survived :
1xOrange shoulder tang;
1xSailfin Desjardini tang;
1xLamarck's Angelfish;
1xCleaner Wrasse;
1xRed Head Solon Fairy Wrasse;
2xCommon clowns;
1xRoyal Gramma;
1xAnthias;
1xStarry Blenny;

I have lost too many corals to list.

I have lost over 10 fish, plus a Sea Cucumber Tiger Tail, and only caught and took one fish out, so all the others just returned the nutrient back into the tank.

I have done over 2000 litres of water changes, at about 300 litres at a time on a weekly basis. I never did regular water changes for over 15 years, but I know I need to do so now to get the tank back to reasonable nutrient levels.

Aquarium Water Testing 31-12-2021
Salinity-35.6
PH-8.25
dKH-10.4
Mag-1400
Ca-480
NO3-10
P0-0.17 ULR

I run the Triton Method.

Any help would really be appreciated.

 

[Timfish]

Sorry to hear you've had such a lousy year!

I'd add some urchins myself and keep doing water changes (20%-30% monthly).

My p04 is reading is 0.017ppb Hanna ULR, which I calculate as 0.52ppm..

I think you left out a "0", .017 ppb should be .052 mg/l PO4, which is fine. (Keep in mind the Hanna ULR only tests PO4 then uses a conversion factor to give a equivelant phosphorus number and is not testing organic or particulate phosphorus.)

Here's some more info on phosphorus in reef systems if you're interested:

An experimental mesocosm for long-term studies of reef corals | Journal of the Marine Biological Association of the United Kingdom | Cambridge Core

An experimental mesocosm for long-term studies of reef corals - Volume 92 Issue 4

www.cambridge.org

An Experimental Mesocosm for Longterm Studies of Reef Corals

Phosphate Deficiency:
Nutrient enrichment can increase the susceptibility of reef corals to bleaching:

Nutrient enrichment can increase the susceptibility of reef corals to bleaching - Nature Climate Change

Increased dissolved inorganic nitrogen (DIN) concentrations in sea water have been linked to a reduction of the temperature threshold at which corals bleach, however, the mechanism underlying this change is not known. This phenomenon is now explained in terms of increased phosphatase activities...

www.nature.com

Ultrastructural Biomarkers in Symbiotic Algae Reflect the Availability of Dissolved Inorganic Nutrients and Particulate Food to the Reef Coral Holobiont:

Ultrastructural Biomarkers in Symbiotic Algae Reflect the Availability of Dissolved Inorganic Nutrients and Particulate Food to the Reef Coral Holobiont

Reef building corals associated with symbiotic algae (zooxanthellae) can access environmental nutrients from different sources, most significantly via the uptake of dissolved inorganic nutrients by the algal symbiont and heterotrophic feeding of the coral host. Climate change is expected to...

www.frontiersin.org

Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates

Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates

Enrichment of reef environments with dissolved inorganic nutrients is considered a major threat to the survival of corals living in symbiosis with din…

www.sciencedirect.com

Effects of phosphate on growth and skeletal density in the scleractinian coral Acropora muricata: A controlled experimental approach

Effects of phosphate on growth and skeletal density in the scleractinian coral Acropora muricata: A controlled experimental approach

Phosphate contamination can negatively affect corals, modifying growth rates, skeletal density, reproduction, mortality, and zooxanthellae. We determi…

www.sciencedirect.com

High phosphate uptake requirements of the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata

High phosphate uptake requirements of the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata

SUMMARYSeveral untested aspects of the regulation of inorganic nutrient uptake were examined using nutrient depletion experiments with the symbiotic coral Stylophora pistillata. The total inhibition of phosphate uptake in artificial seawater lacking sodium indicates the involvement of a...

jeb.biologists.org

Phosphorus metabolism of reef organisms with algal symbionts

https://esajournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/ecm.1217?casa_token=ziDzrEEJ8g0AAAAA%3AHnfuGTIntMdqOtx2ij-lnoTh7qVg8VBhYFz98e60zfBEvx5IcIVGhmlpUYmzIJuqUNVm0sG8_0vth6lq

Skeptical Reefkeeping 9: Test Kits, Chasing Numbers and Phosphate - The Rich Ross

FROM REEFS MAGAZINE by Rich Ross and Chris Jury The Editors Note: In Skeptical Reefkeeping IX, Rich Ross is joined by our old friend Chris Jury as they try to come to terms with the “impossible” yet confirmed PO4 readings in Rich’s gorgeous reef. The analysis is thorough, thought- provoking...

therichross.com

Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle

Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle

Marine sponges are ubiquitous colonizers of shallow, clear-water environments in the oceans (1, 2). Sponges have emerged as significant mediators of biogeochemical fluxes in coastal zones by virtue of respiring organic matter and facilitating both the consumption and release of nutrients (3, 4)...

www.pnas.org

Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges

Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges

Coral reefs are highly productive ecosystems that raise a conundrum called “Darwin’s paradox”: How can high production flourish in low-nutrient conditions? We show here that in three abundant Caribbean sponges, the granules that have been commonly observed in sponge tissue for decades are...

www.pnas.org

Fig 4 from "Phosphorus metabolism of reef organisms with algal symbionts"

 

[Nburg]

Wow that’s a very thorough phosphate/phosphorus post.

But yes OP, I believe your PO4 is 0.05, not .5… which is lower than mine and my tank is doing quite well.
Also, sorry for your loss! I hope 2022 is a better year for you.

 

[DxMarinefish]

Sorry to hear you've had such a lousy year!

I'd add some urchins myself and keep doing water changes (20%-30% monthly).


I think you left out a "0", .017 ppb should be .052 mg/l PO4, which is fine. (Keep in mind the Hanna ULR only tests PO4 then uses a conversion factor to give a equivelant phosphorus number and is not testing organic or particulate phosphorus.)

Here's some more info on phosphorus in reef systems if you're interested:

Thanks.. I believe you are correct about missing out the '0".

I have an acrylic tank, heard about Urchins scratching acrylics for some. I will investigate.

Thanks for the links, I have read a few of those, and will read up on the others.

I am surprised by the algae bloom, perhaps a lot of nutrients just dumped in short amount of time, plus the decimation of the CUC did not help.

 

[DxMarinefish]

Wow that’s a very thorough phosphate/phosphorus post.

But yes OP, I believe your PO4 is 0.05, not .5… which is lower than mine and my tank is doing quite well.
Also, sorry for your loss! I hope 2022 is a better year for you.

True about the missed "0".

Praying 2022 is better.

I hope to buy a few CUC tomorrow, thus the post to get safe suggestions. Don't want to load a bunch of CUC only for them to die off...causing more issues.

 

[Timfish]

Thanks.. I believe you are correct about missing out the '0".

I have an acrylic tank, heard about Urchins scratching acrylics for some. I will investigate.

Thanks for the links, I have read a few of those, and will read up on the others.

I am surprised by the algae bloom, perhaps a lot of nutrients just dumped in short amount of time, plus the decimation of the CUC did not help.

Yeah, some can scratch acrylic pretty good. Try a Tuxedo urchin. I also like Sally Lightfoot crabs and thin stripe hermits to remove algae off rocks.

Corals and algae are competitors and there's some pretty complex microbial processes. Loosing a lot of corals really upsets the former equilibrium of the ssytem and favors the growth of nuisance algae. Basicely what you're having to do is go through the maturing process again. Here's some stuff you may find informative:

"Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" This video compliments Rohwer's book of the same title (Paper back is ~$20, Kindle is ~$10), both deal with the conflicting roles of the different types of DOC in reef ecosystems. While there is overlap bewteen his book and the video both have information not covered by the other and together give a broader view of the complex relationships found in reef ecosystems

Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes

Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont

BActeria and Sponges

Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)

Optical Feedback Loop in Colorful Coral Bleaching

Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"

 

[Glenner’sreef]

I’m sorry about your tough year. My advice re: cuc is to hold off a bit until you get your gha under control. Phosgaurd is an effective product. I’ve helped more than one friend successfully get rid of it. It can take 2-3 months but it’s definitely a process. Change out your Phosgaurd (pg) no more that every two weeks. I had tested one tank that we had changed out pg every 4 weeks only to find out the the numbers would climb back up to but not exceed the original numbers. Every two weeks though saw phosphate numbers continually drop. After a month or two the less vibrant gha which now resembles dreadlocks can and should be syphoned out. Once you get this plague manageably down hit it with 5-10 large turbo snails. Good luck.

 

[DxMarinefish]

Yeah, some can scratch acrylic pretty good. Try a Tuxedo urchin. I also like Sally Lightfoot crabs and thin stripe hermits to remove algae off rocks.

Corals and algae are competitors and there's some pretty complex microbial processes. Loosing a lot of corals really upsets the former equilibrium of the ssytem and favors the growth of nuisance algae. Basicely what you're having to do is go through the maturing process again. Here's some stuff you may find informative:

"Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" This video compliments Rohwer's book of the same title (Paper back is ~$20, Kindle is ~$10), both deal with the conflicting roles of the different types of DOC in reef ecosystems. While there is overlap bewteen his book and the video both have information not covered by the other and together give a broader view of the complex relationships found in reef ecosystems

Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes

Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont

BActeria and Sponges

Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)

Optical Feedback Loop in Colorful Coral Bleaching

Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"

Thanks.
I bought some CUC today.
Hopefully they can go to work on the algae.

 

[DxMarinefish]

I’m sorry about your tough year. My advice re: cuc is to hold off a bit until you get your gha under control. Phosgaurd is an effective product. I’ve helped more than one friend successfully get rid of it. It can take 2-3 months but it’s definitely a process. Change out your Phosgaurd (pg) no more that every two weeks. I had tested one tank that we had changed out pg every 4 weeks only to find out the the numbers would climb back up to but not exceed the original numbers. Every two weeks though saw phosphate numbers continually drop. After a month or two the less vibrant gha which now resembles dreadlocks can and should be syphoned out. Once you get this plague manageably down hit it with 5-10 large turbo snails. Good luck.

Thanks.

with the 2xATS now producing a lot of growth, my p04 today was 0.0014.
I have bought some CUC to help.

 

[DxMarinefish]

Bought CUC today…acclimatising now

6-turbo snails
8-nassaruis snails
4-emerald crabs
1-sea slug
2-tux urchins

That will do for now.
I will monitor Nitrates and p04 closely.