Help to decide Sump and layout or go with canister

[Klewtz]

Hello everyone,

For a little back story and info, I currently have a 55-gal Rimmed aquarium. It is currently a FOWLR with only a Damsel, Flame Angel, Cleaner shrimp, Watchmen goby, and Pistol shrimp. I also have a decent CUC of hermits and snails. So overall I do not have a huge bio load, but I getting more fish just being patient to not overwhelm. I also plan on Possibly starting with some corals down the road. I currently only have a HOB filter.

Above is my current setup, the section in my stand where I would place a sump or canister filter is 26-inch-long x 16.5-inch-wide x 25-inch-high. I am leaning towards wanting a sump more than a canister filter due to not having to go through as much maintenance. I would have to have a HOB Overflow due to not being able to drill into my tank.

I am either thinking about setting up a standard 20-gallon high-glass aquarium as my sump or thinking about buying a sump that is already set up. Looking at my bio load and knowing I'm not going to have a huge bio load in the future I am leaning more towards something simple. like the design I have created below. This design would be for a 20-gal sump. The sections I have created will be separated by Aqua mesh to act as a mechanical filter and also baffles. Yes, I'm assuming I will have to replace/clean these every few months and I'm okay with that. Would you recommend also doing a filter sock in the intake? I've heard mixed opinions on this. I am trying to make this simple to save money but also make this efficient for my tank size that is why I'm trying to not spend 300$ on a skimmer. If you think I should go with a skimmer instead of one of my sections, please let me know.

Price for above plan ^
$28 - for Tank
$90 - for 3 sheets of Aqua Mesh (BRS) probably find somewhere cheaper
$233 - for HOB Overflow w/ lid and air pump (CS90)
$113 - Hydor Seltz D DC 1000 GPH

Overall = $464

Additional Prices
$182 - 8 Pounds of Rubble Rock from TBS (Includes Shipping)
or
$60 - for Bio Media (Bricks or Balls)
$130 - Ultimate Refuge starter pack (Algae Barn) Cheato
$90 - Eco Chick LED light

Overall = $402 for additional

$866 For everything

If there is anything I can do to save money please let me know!



I have also been looking into buying a preset-up sump and I will attach pictures here for your opinions on those as well.

I am also really interested in the one below, but the problem is its 20x20 and will stick out of my stand a couple inches /: but for the price I feel is a steal.

Please let me know your thoughts. I do plan to someday upgrade if everything goes well. I feel like whatever sump I pick I will also want to use that in the future as well. Please give any feedback! I will take all I can get! If I missed anything that you think I need for my sump please let me know.

 

[PapaFishRocks]

1 vote for canister. Been running an FX4 canister on my 90 gallon for years with no issues at all.

 

[Klewtz]

1 vote for canister. Been running an FX4 canister on my 90 gallon for years with no issues at all.

Thank you for the reply, How often do you have to do maintenance? and is there any additional costs that come with it?

 

[Fish Fan]

Hello! Nice looking setup so far!

I am FAR from an expert, but your post caught my attention as I'm looking to start a new frag tank and I too am considering filter options.

Personally, I HATE canister filters, and that includes running them on freshwater tanks too. I personally think they are such a pain to maintain, that I find I don't do the maintenance I really should. Some people really like them (mostly for freshwater), but I much prefer a Hang On Back filter to a canister filter. And if I could rant for just a moment more, I strongly prefer the original AquaClear or now Fluval HOB's to everything else, including the popular Seachem Tidal HOB's.

That said, I think if you're focusing (at least with this tank) on saltwater and you do have interest in getting into corals or more advanced systems, I would personally go with the sump. You're getting a whole lot of benefits, such as it looks better because less equipment is in or hanging off the tank, it's much larger and adding to your overall volume of water, which increases system stability, and it's more flexible as you can add more "reef tank specific" pieces of equipment like skimmers and reactors more easily. You can also run a refugium in your sump.

While I think *most* reefers use a protein skimmer, you absolutely definitely do not *need* a protein skimmer. It's just one tool to help reduce pollutants in your tank. Another option is to run a refugium in your sump (basically, just a dedicated area in your sump that's protected from your main display tank). In your refugium you could grow macro algae such as Chaetomorpha sp. This is a very fast growing algae that will take up excess pollutants in your water as it grows. You periodically physically remove part of the growing ball of algae, which effectively removes those pollutants from your system. The ball of algae grows back and the process is repeated.

$90 for three sheets of your AquaMesh, for not a lot more you could get a ready made sump insert kit. I've looked at many from FijiCube, Tenecor, Jax's Racks, etc., and right now I'm leaning towards this kit I saw on eBay, in either their 20L or 40B config, at least for my needs.

Sump Kit on eBay

A 100 gph return pump will not be enough, in my opinion; I would up that a lot. One of the benefits of having a DC return pump is that you can dial them back if the flow is too great, but this way you will have the horsepower if needed.

My last thought is that I've used live rock and sand from Tampa Bay Saltwater, and I absolutely loved it and very much recommend it. However, I see you are thinking about using their rubble pieces, and if I remember correctly those rubble pieces are at a premium price. for whatever reason (they say they hand select them or something). I don't get it. If you're looking to use TBS rock for their microbial life to get your tank started, why not just get a small amount of their base rock, which is way cheaper? If the pieces are too large to fit where you want them, just break them into smaller pieces.

I hope this help! Good luck with whatever you choose!

 

[PapaFishRocks]

Thank you for the reply, How often do you have to do maintenance? and is there any additional costs that come with it?

I feed heavy and only need to clean it every 3-4 months. The FX4 is easy to clean.

No additional costs at all. Rolling with the same media as day 1.

 

[Fish Fan]

I feed heavy and only need to clean it every 3-4 months. The FX4 is easy to clean.

No additional costs at all. Rolling with the same media as day 1.

I will say, if you're going to go with a canister filter, get the Fluval. I've had SunSun's and others, and many leak and have problems. The fluvals have been the most reliable. In the world of freshwater planted tanks, the Eheim's are revered, especially in Europe.

 

[Klewtz]

Hello! Nice looking setup so far!

I am FAR from an expert, but your post caught my attention as I'm looking to start a new frag tank and I too am considering filter options.

Personally, I HATE canister filters, and that includes running them on freshwater tanks too. I personally think they are such a pain to maintain, that I find I don't do the maintenance I really should. Some people really like them (mostly for freshwater), but I much prefer a Hang On Back filter to a canister filter. And if I could rant for just a moment more, I strongly prefer the original AquaClear or now Fluval HOB's to everything else, including the popular Seachem Tidal HOB's.

That said, I think if you're focusing (at least with this tank) on saltwater and you do have interest in getting into corals or more advance systems, I would personally go with the sump. You're getting a whole lot of benefits, such as it looks better because less equipment is in or hanging off the tank, it's much larger and adding to your overall volume of water, which increases system stability, and it's more flexible as you can add more "reef tank specific" pieces of equipment like skimmers and reactors more easily. You can also run a refugium in your sump.

While I think *most* reefers use a protein skimmer, you absolutely definitely do not *need* a protein skimmer. It's just one tool to help reduce pollutants in your tank. Another option is to run a refugium in your sump (basically, just a dedicated area in your sump that's protected from your main display tank). In your refugium you could grow macro algae such as Chaetomorpha sp. This is a very fast growing algae that will take up excess pollutants in your water as it grows. You periodically physically remove part of the growing ball of algae, which effectively removes those pollutants from your system. The ball of algae grows back and the process is repeated.

$90 for three sheets of your AquaMesh, for not a lot more you could get a ready made sump insert kit. I've looked at many from FijiCube, Tenecor, Jax's Racks, etc., and right now I'm leaning towards this kit I saw on eBay, in either their 20L or 40B config, at least for my needs.

Sump Kit on eBay

A 100 gph return pump will not be enough, in my opinion; I would up that a lot. One of the benefits of having a DC return pump is that you can dial them back if the flow is too great, but this way you will have the horsepower if needed.

My last thought is that I've used live rock and sand from Tampa Bay Saltwater, and I absolutely loved it and very much recommend it. However, I see you ware thinking about using their rubble pieces, and if I remember correctly those rubble pieces are at a premium price. for whatever reason (they say they hand select them or something). I don't get it. If you're looking to use TBS rock for their microbial life to get your tank started, why not just get a small amount of their base rock, which is way cheaper? If the pieces are too large to fit where you want them, just break them into smaller pieces.

I hope this help! Good luck with whatever you choose!

Awesome Thank you so much for your feedback! I currently have the AquaClear HOB and it has not given me any problems! But Ofc would like to upgrade. The main reason I am thinking about AquaMesh instead of baffles or a kit is because I would be using a 20 Gal High, and most ive found are 20 Gal Long. Another reason for this is that in my design I'm trying to not go with filter socks to reduce on maintenance. Please tell me if im wrong and stupid lol. Ima look on EBAY also and see what I can find!

For the "100GPH" pump that was a typo lol it was supposed to be 1000 GPH that is my fault lol and it is adjustable.

Regarding the Rubble rock you are correct, and I definitely will take your opinion on using the base rock! I will check to see the price difference. I originally went with rubble because I'm not sure how big the pieces will be and will need them to fit in the section of my sump! but honestly didn't think about breaking them lol. Thanks again for the response!

 

[Fish Fan]

Awesome Thank you so much for your feedback! I currently have the AquaClear HOB and it has not given me any problems! But Ofc would like to upgrade. The main reason I am thinking about AquaMesh instead of baffles or a kit is because I would be using a 20 Gal High, and most ive found are 20 Gal Long. Another reason for this is that in my design I'm trying to not go with filter socks to reduce on maintenance. Please tell me if im wrong and stupid lol. Ima look on EBAY also and see what I can find!

There's absolutely drop-in sump baffle kits for a 20H if that's what you have. This is just an example:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2749930636...FPHECX&hash=item4006dd26f6:g:sh8AAOSwOkxhcGXT

For the "100GPH" pump that was a typo lol it was supposed to be 1000 GPH that is my fault lol and it is adjustable.

Makes much more sense

Regarding the Rubble rock you are correct, and I definitely will take your opinion on using the base rock! I will check to see the price difference. I originally went with rubble because I'm not sure how big the pieces will be and will need them to fit in the section of my sump! but honestly didn't think about breaking them lol. Thanks again for the response!

Unless I'm really missing something about their rubble pieces, I don't get why they are so much more expensive. The base rock will have all the microbes you need. If you have to, take a piece and wrap it in a towel and whack it with a hammer - instant rubble at a fraction of the cost Please wear eye protection, I should probably mention.

 

[C_AWOL]

Since drilling is out of the question, I would personally suggest just using another hob filter over a canister.

A regular hob filter is a lot more accessible and easier to clean
A canister has a lot more media capacity and provides better flow but it's a big pain to clean most of the time.
Most of us will opt not to do something if it's too much trouble which is why hob > canister for your tank size.

Using a hob overflow is a big recipe for disaster since there's no great method to prevent a siphon from breaking or reliably restarting to my knowledge. A sizable flood on the floor and damaged furniture + equipment is a very quick ticket to exit the hobby in a very negative way.

 

[Fish Fan]

Since drilling is out of the question, I would personally suggest just using another hob filter over a canister.

I saw where the OP mentioned not being able to drill, but I wonder if this is really "out of the question". Drilling tanks is far easier than most people think, and takes little more than a drill gun most of us have, and a diamond coated hole saw, which can be had for like $15. There's plenty of videos on how to do it. Maybe this is an option for the OP. They could then get a quality overflow like the Synergy Shadow or Eshoppes, which I agree is more reliable than the HOB styled.

A regular hob filter is a lot more accessible and easier to clean
A canister has a lot more media capacity and provides better flow but it's a big pain to clean most of the time.
Most of us will opt not to do something if it's too much trouble which is why hob > canister for your tank size.

I couldn't agree more! I don't understand why people love their canister filters as much as they seem to, but they do seem to lol! I'd much prefer a larger AquaClear 70 or 110, plenty of room for media and moves a lot of water, and takes minutes to clean, instead of being something I have to plan time for on my weekend. This is largely based on my many more years of keeping freshwater tanks, including messy Cichlids, but I do run some small saltwater QT/observation tanks with AquaClear 70 HOB's. I have many canister filters, but have never tried one for saltwater, and really don't want to, which is certainly just my opinion.

Using a hob overflow is a big recipe for disaster since there's no great method to prevent a siphon from breaking or reliably restarting to my knowledge. A sizable flood on the floor and damaged furniture + equipment is a very quick ticket to exit the hobby in a very negative way.

I have never used this style of overflow, and I'm with you when you say they are problematic. There are a couple I've seen mentioned on here where users report many years of consistent service without any flooding or major problems, and I'm sure someone will soon be along to tell us so. But they whole way these overflows work makes them at least a little susceptible to a catastrophic fail where basically all your tank water winds up on your floor. If you drill and use a quality overflow setup, when power fails then only a small amount of water can drain back into the sump (and you plan your sump size for this event). When power returns, the system picks up and works like nothing happened because it's not relying on a somewhat fragile syphon.

To the OP, have you considered drilling your tank? It's WAY easier than most everyone thinks before they learn how to do it.

 

[Klewtz]

I saw where the OP mentioned not being able to drill, but I wonder if this is really "out of the question". Drilling tanks is far easier than most people think, and takes little more than a drill gun most of us have, and a diamond coated hole saw, which can be had for like $15. There's plenty of videos on how to do it. Maybe this is an option for the OP. They could then get a quality overflow like the Synergy Shadow or Eshoppes, which I agree is more reliable than the HOB styled.


I couldn't agree more! I don't understand why people love their canister filters as much as they seem to, but they do seem to lol! I'd much prefer a larger AquaClear 70 or 110, plenty of room for media and moves a lot of water, and takes minutes to clean, instead of being something I have to plan time for on my weekend. This is largely based on my many more years of keeping freshwater tanks, including messy Cichlids, but I do run some small saltwater QT/observation tanks with AquaClear 70 HOB's. I have many canister filters, but have never tried one for saltwater, and really don't want to, which is certainly just my opinion.


I have never used this style of overflow, and I'm with you when you say they are problematic. There are a couple I've seen mentioned on here where users report many years of consistent service without any flooding or major problems, and I'm sure someone will soon be along to tell us so. But they whole way these overflows work makes them at least a little susceptible to a catastrophic fail where basically all your tank water winds up on your floor. If you drill and use a quality overflow setup, when power fails then only a small amount of water can drain back into the sump (and you plan your sump size for this event). When power returns, the system picks up and works like nothing happened because it's not relying on a somewhat fragile syphon.

To the OP, have you considered drilling your tank? It's WAY easier than most everyone thinks before they learn how to do it.

Honestly, I have thought about drilling but was always scared because I am not sure if it is made from tempered glass. It is a TopFin 55 Gal tank and was bought on a whim.

I am also scared of drilling since I have already had it cycled and with fish. but im not against it if i built of more confidence!

 

[PharmrJohn]

When I replaced my 15g high sump, I ended up doing a 20 long (servicing a 90g DT). I got a couple sheets of acrylic and some egg-crate and went to town. Now, it didn't look pretty, And I had a minor issue with the acrylic affixing to the glass, but in the end it worked like a charm. For cheap. It was a standard 3 space sump with socks on the left, skimmer in the middle and return on the right.

 

[PapaFishRocks]

I will say, if you're going to go with a canister filter, get the Fluval. I've had SunSun's and others, and many leak and have problems. The fluvals have been the most reliable. In the world of freshwater planted tanks, the Eheim's are revered, especially in Europe.

Agreed. My Fluval FX4 has been trouble free.

Ran Ehiems forever on my Cichlids tank. Love them! Still use an old one for my salt mixing station today.

 

[Klewtz]

When I replaced my 15g high sump, I ended up doing a 20 long (servicing a 90g DT). I got a couple sheets of acrylic and some egg-crate and went to town. Now, it didn't look pretty, And I had a minor issue with the acrylic affixing to the glass, but in the end it worked like a charm. For cheap. It was a standard 3 space sump with socks on the left, skimmer in the middle and return on the right.

Awesome thanks for your insight! I’ll look into acrylic and egg crate also!

 

[GARRIGA]

Canisters per say aren't really more work. Shut the inflow then the outflow before disconnecting power and that creates a small air gap making removal of the lid easy. Can reduce maintenance by adding a prefilter but I prefer less seen in the display. Might still want a HOB to hide the heater and should you want a place to house probes and dose. Carbon dosing will reduce excess nitrates thereby allow the canister to capture and decompose detritus thus avoiding the frequent cleaning of socks or floss. Canisters can go for months unopened and especially if floss and chemical needing frequent attention gets moved to the HOB. HOB would also make for a good Fuge/ATS.

Perhaps an FX plus two HOB filters. One for mechanical/chemical and the other for Chaeto. If just going fish than likely no need for probes or dosing and with a Fuge one can skip dosing carbon. Keep it simple. Approach I'm taking.

This hobby assumes all going Sticks and needing sumps with skimmers and controllers. Can get rather maddening and push off to those needing less and just seeking enjoyment.

 

[Klewtz]

Canisters per say aren't really more work. Shut the inflow then the outflow before disconnecting power and that creates a small air gap making removal of the lid easy. Can reduce maintenance by adding a prefilter but I prefer less seen in the display. Might still want a HOB to hide the heater and should you want a place to house probes and dose. Carbon dosing will reduce excess nitrates thereby allow the canister to capture and decompose detritus thus avoiding the frequent cleaning of socks or floss. Canisters can go for months unopened and especially if floss and chemical needing frequent attention gets moved to the HOB. HOB would also make for a good Fuge/ATS.

Perhaps an FX plus two HOB filters. One for mechanical/chemical and the other for Chaeto. If just going fish than likely no need for probes or dosing and with a Fuge one can skip dosing carbon. Keep it simple. Approach I'm taking.

This hobby assumes all going Sticks and needing sumps with skimmers and controllers. Can get rather maddening and push off to those needing less and just seeking enjoyment.

Awesome! Thank you for the feedback! Definitely have given me a few more things to think about!

 

[Fish Fan]

Canisters per say aren't really more work. Shut the inflow then the outflow before disconnecting power and that creates a small air gap making removal of the lid easy. Can reduce maintenance by adding a prefilter but I prefer less seen in the display. Might still want a HOB to hide the heater and should you want a place to house probes and dose. Carbon dosing will reduce excess nitrates thereby allow the canister to capture and decompose detritus thus avoiding the frequent cleaning of socks or floss. Canisters can go for months unopened and especially if floss and chemical needing frequent attention gets moved to the HOB. HOB would also make for a good Fuge/ATS.

Perhaps an FX plus two HOB filters. One for mechanical/chemical and the other for Chaeto. If just going fish than likely no need for probes or dosing and with a Fuge one can skip dosing carbon. Keep it simple. Approach I'm taking.

This hobby assumes all going Sticks and needing sumps with skimmers and controllers. Can get rather maddening and push off to those needing less and just seeking enjoyment.

I think this is very true if you already have the canister filter and two HOB filters. But how much is a Fluval FX these days? I know they want $100 or so for an AquaClear 110 HOB - a filter that is largely just a plastic box and a small water pump, and who's design hasn't changed since I got my first AC sometime around 1986.... but I digress....

My point would be that for about $150 you can have an efficient, DIY sump. Add to that another $100 for a decent pump, and you have all the space, flexibility, extra water volume, and visual appeal (less gear in the tank) that a sump offers.

I'm big on making your own road in this hobby, so by all means, if you guys like canister filters please go for it. To me, they are so much work and a mess to clean, and I would prefer either a HOB or sump setup.

As always, I hope my comments are helpful to someone, and best of luck to everyone!

 

[Fish Fan]

Holy cats! I just looked, and a Fluval FX 4 is like $300!

I think for $300 you can get a DIY sump, budget (but decent (Jaebo?)) return pump, and a quality (ideally drilled (it's not that hard!)) overflow, and have a much more robust and cleaner looking system then using a canister and/or HOB's. Again, this is just my $0.02.

Good luck!

 

[GARRIGA]

Awesome! Thank you for the feedback! Definitely have given me a few more things to think about!

Something I forgot to add. Going to experiment with running the canister return through an AquaClear 110 by overlapping it over the tube over the pump thereby eliminating the short fall of that HOB where it looses suction after a power outage vs the Tidal which is self priming.

Neat part being the water will flow up from underneath the algae and could just add floss and chemical filtration underneath the chaeto and make it all one simple connection plus big enough to house one or two titanium heaters. Canister can house larger sponges from coarse to fine to trap what would quickly clog floss making maintenance less often.

Necessity is the mother if innovation they say.

 

[GARRIGA]

I think this is very true if you already have the canister filter and two HOB filters. But how much is a Fluval FX these days? I know they want $100 or so for an AquaClear 110 HOB - a filter that is largely just a plastic box and a small water pump, and who's design hasn't changed since I got my first AC sometime around 1986.... but I digress....

My point would be that for about $150 you can have an efficient, DIY sump. Add to that another $100 for a decent pump, and you have all the space, flexibility, extra water volume, and visual appeal (less gear in the tank) that a sump offers.

I'm big on making your own road in this hobby, so by all means, if you guys like canister filters please go for it. To me, they are so much work and a mess to clean, and I would prefer either a HOB or sump setup.

As always, I hope my comments are helpful to someone, and best of luck to everyone!

Tank is not prefilled therefore overflow box needed and those are not cheap and not self priming. Long term. Canister still cheaper overall as leaks can be contained by placing a pan underneath and no worries that during power outage that sump might overflow if it wasn't' first setup correctly. Less evaporation as well.
Haven't dealt with overflows for non-drilled tanks since the 90s but that's what I recall about why I decided against going with them and ran undergravel first tank and canister next. Couldn't afford a reef ready tank. Life sucked back then