Help please with Kole Tang dorsal fin/scale issue

AstroMelly · Jun 4, 2024

#fishmedic

Let's get this out of the way first

Aquarium Parameters:
Aquarium type: Reef
Aquarium water volume - 750 litres (about 200g)
Filtration type - roller mat, MarinePure ceramic blocks, bag of purigen under the roller mat. Skimmer
Lighting - 4 x XR15 @ 70%
How long has the aquarium been established? 2.5 years

Water quality
Temperature 25.5C (77.9 F)
pH: 8.0 - 8.1 (today - Milwaukee)
Salinity / specific gravity 1.025 (Tropic Marin Pro) (yesterday)
Ammonia Not tested
Nitrite Not tested
Nitrate 12 ppm - Hanna (yesterday)
Phosphorus 0.09 ppm - Hanna (yesterday)
Copper Not tested
Alk 6.7 dKh Salifert (yesterday) (has been decreasing from the usual 8.5 but tank looks good so I am going to shoot for around 7)

Our white tail Kole Tang has developed some issues around the base of her dorsal fin (both sides). Also apparent above/behind the eyes. It looks like a skin infection - it could also be interpreted as accidental grazing but since this is on both sides of the fish so I find that an unlikely cause.

We were away for 2 weeks from May 6th until May 20th and we noticed this as soon as we got back - not present before. I thought perhaps this could be due to the tank being on an autofeeder - feeding pellets only for 2 weeks whereas we usually try and mix frozen and pellets 50/50. However we have been back 2 weeks now and if anything she seems to be getting worse. Appetite is still very good as it was before. She is still be-bopping on the glass and rocks as she always has. We have been soaking both dry and frozen food with Selcon for the last couple of days (it's hard to get hold of in the UK these days but now we have some since a couple of days ago).

All other tank mates seem unaffected in the same way - the tank generally appears very healthy.

Video below, can take more pics if required. Thanks!

vetteguy53081 · Jun 4, 2024

AstroMelly said:
#fishmedic

Let's get this out of the way first

Aquarium Parameters:
Aquarium type: Reef
Aquarium water volume - 750 litres (about 200g)
Filtration type - roller mat, MarinePure ceramic blocks, bag of purigen under the roller mat. Skimmer
Lighting - 4 x XR15 @ 70%
How long has the aquarium been established? 2.5 years

Water quality
Temperature 25.5C (77.9 F)
pH: 8.0 - 8.1 (today - Milwaukee)
Salinity / specific gravity 1.025 (Tropic Marin Pro) (yesterday)
Ammonia Not tested
Nitrite Not tested
Nitrate 12 ppm - Hanna (yesterday)
Phosphorus 0.09 ppm - Hanna (yesterday)
Copper Not tested
Alk 6.7 dKh Salifert (yesterday) (has been decreasing from the usual 8.5 but tank looks good so I am going to shoot for around 7)

Our white tail Kole Tang has developed some issues around the base of her dorsal fin (both sides). Also apparent above/behind the eyes. It looks like a skin infection - it could also be interpreted as accidental grazing but since this is on both sides of the fish so I find that an unlikely cause.

We were away for 2 weeks from May 6th until May 20th and we noticed this as soon as we got back - not present before. I thought perhaps this could be due to the tank being on an autofeeder - feeding pellets only for 2 weeks whereas we usually try and mix frozen and pellets 50/50. However we have been back 2 weeks now and if anything she seems to be getting worse. Appetite is still very good as it was before. She is still be-bopping on the glass and rocks as she always has. We have been soaking both dry and frozen food with Selcon for the last couple of days (it's hard to get hold of in the UK these days but now we have some since a couple of days ago).

All other tank mates seem unaffected in the same way - the tank generally appears very healthy.

Video below, can take more pics if required. Thanks!

The little bumps may be bacterial or flukes
Sny odd behavior or loss of appetite or heavy breathing?

AstroMelly · Jun 4, 2024

Appetite is still good. No odd behaviour to report and seems her breathing also normal.

They are not bumps. The sore places look like depressions as though some of the skin has gone. I’m also thinking bacterial.

MnFish1 · Jun 4, 2024

Agree with the others - there are certain areas that look like the start of HLLE

vetteguy53081 · Jun 4, 2024

AstroMelly said:
Appetite is still good. No odd behaviour to report and seems her breathing also normal.

They are not bumps. The sore places look like depressions as though some of the skin has gone. I’m also thinking bacterial.

Treatment will be in a separate tank with added aeration using seachem kanaplex and focus on good water quality

Jay Hemdal · Jun 4, 2024

Off the cuff, I would say some minor HLLE, along with flukes. The fish just a little bit “shop worn” and flukes often cause that.

P.s.-thanks for filling out a full problem report, that helps us rule out some issues.

MnFish1 · Jun 4, 2024

Yes - to the OP - thanks alot for all of the information

AstroMelly · Jun 5, 2024

Thank you for your replies. @Jay Hemdal we have had this fish for about 18 months - this started in the last 3-4 weeks while we were away.

What I am going to do - we do not have a separate quarantine or hospital tank right now so I will continue soaking pellets and frozen with Selcon daily (no harm in daily feedings with Selcon - right?). We will do a 20% water change probably this weekend.

Points to note on water chemistry - the Alk was typically 8-8.5 for the last couple of years but coral growth has recently kicked off and Alk took a gentle downturn over the last couple of months. I am looking to arrest this by increasing my All For Reef dosing and hope to settle on the 7.0 mark. Nitrate was always reasonably high (usually around 40-50 ppm) but over the last month or 2 we have also seen an unexplained drop - to around 10-20 ppm. We are hoping to keep it at this figure. Phosphate was also reasonably high during our trip away - around 0.2 ppm - now we have changed the RowaPhos it is settled around the 0.1 ppm mark.

I'm not sure either of these (fairly gradual) changes could have contributed but I think maybe feeding pellets only for 2 weeks could have (Seaweed Extreme L and Hikari Marine S) - although we have done this successfully several times before.

Thanks again for your help.

Jay Hemdal · Jun 5, 2024

AstroMelly said:
Thank you for your replies. @Jay Hemdal we have had this fish for about 18 months - this started in the last 3-4 weeks while we were away.

What I am going to do - we do not have a separate quarantine or hospital tank right now so I will continue soaking pellets and frozen with Selcon daily (no harm in daily feedings with Selcon - right?). We will do a 20% water change probably this weekend.

Points to note on water chemistry - the Alk was typically 8-8.5 for the last couple of years but coral growth has recently kicked off and Alk took a gentle downturn over the last couple of months. I am looking to arrest this by increasing my All For Reef dosing and hope to settle on the 7.0 mark. Nitrate was always reasonably high (usually around 40-50 ppm) but over the last month or 2 we have also seen an unexplained drop - to around 10-20 ppm. We are hoping to keep it at this figure. Phosphate was also reasonably high during our trip away - around 0.2 ppm - now we have changed the RowaPhos it is settled around the 0.1 ppm mark.

I'm not sure either of these (fairly gradual) changes could have contributed but I think maybe feeding pellets only for 2 weeks could have (Seaweed Extreme L and Hikari Marine S) - although we have done this successfully several times before.

Thanks again for your help.

I watched your video again - at the very end was a whole tank shot that I missed before. Given the other tangs that you have in there, I’m less inclined now to think this is flukes as they would most likely also be showing symptoms if it were.

Look for foods that have added vitamin E and thiamin, those are the two vitamins most often deficient in aquarium fish diets.

Selcon is not a treatment for any disease process, and because it is so oily, it can be overused, where it rinses off and fouls the water.

Jay

thatmanMIKEson · Jun 5, 2024

AstroMelly said:
#fishmedic

Let's get this out of the way first

Aquarium Parameters:
Aquarium type: Reef
Aquarium water volume - 750 litres (about 200g)
Filtration type - roller mat, MarinePure ceramic blocks, bag of purigen under the roller mat. Skimmer
Lighting - 4 x XR15 @ 70%
How long has the aquarium been established? 2.5 years

Water quality
Temperature 25.5C (77.9 F)
pH: 8.0 - 8.1 (today - Milwaukee)
Salinity / specific gravity 1.025 (Tropic Marin Pro) (yesterday)
Ammonia Not tested
Nitrite Not tested
Nitrate 12 ppm - Hanna (yesterday)
Phosphorus 0.09 ppm - Hanna (yesterday)
Copper Not tested
Alk 6.7 dKh Salifert (yesterday) (has been decreasing from the usual 8.5 but tank looks good so I am going to shoot for around 7)

Our white tail Kole Tang has developed some issues around the base of her dorsal fin (both sides). Also apparent above/behind the eyes. It looks like a skin infection - it could also be interpreted as accidental grazing but since this is on both sides of the fish so I find that an unlikely cause.

We were away for 2 weeks from May 6th until May 20th and we noticed this as soon as we got back - not present before. I thought perhaps this could be due to the tank being on an autofeeder - feeding pellets only for 2 weeks whereas we usually try and mix frozen and pellets 50/50. However we have been back 2 weeks now and if anything she seems to be getting worse. Appetite is still very good as it was before. She is still be-bopping on the glass and rocks as she always has. We have been soaking both dry and frozen food with Selcon for the last couple of days (it's hard to get hold of in the UK these days but now we have some since a couple of days ago).

All other tank mates seem unaffected in the same way - the tank generally appears very healthy.

Video below, can take more pics if required. Thanks!

what other fish do you have? any rabbit fish or any other venomous fish or inverts?

AstroMelly · Jun 6, 2024

Jay Hemdal said:
I watched your video again - at the very end was a whole tank shot that I missed before. Given the other tangs that you have in there, I’m less inclined now to think this is flukes as they would most likely also be showing symptoms if it were.

Look for foods that have added vitamin E and thiamin, those are the two vitamins most often deficient in aquarium fish diets.

Selcon is not a treatment for any disease process, and because it is so oily, it can be overused, where it rinses off and fouls the water.

Jay

Thanks Jay

Any suggestions on foods with the vitamins you recommend?

How about Selcon soaked pellets every day or other day and not soaking frozen - which seems a bit like a waste of time to me anyway as it’s already wet.

EDIT - I just ordered some of this along with some other frozen foods. It lists vitamin B1 and vitamin E in the ingredients.

Ocean Nutrition Spirulina Formula - Frozen Fish Food

Ocean Nutrition's Quality Frozen Formula Food Provides the Natural Diet Your Fish Need to Thrive. Premium Frozen Fish Food from the Experts.

www.frozenfishfood.co.uk

AstroMelly · Jun 6, 2024

thatmanMIKEson said:
what other fish do you have? any rabbit fish or any other venomous fish or inverts?

Yes we have a magnificent fox face. He/she is quite docile and shows no animosity towards the Kole tang. He doesn’t like the blue tang but he doesn’t use his spines - he just nudges him around sometimes. No venomous inverts that I know of!

thatmanMIKEson · Jun 6, 2024

AstroMelly said:
Yes we have a magnificent fox face. He/she is quite docile and shows no animosity towards the Kole tang. He doesn’t like the blue tang but he doesn’t use his spines - he just nudges him around sometimes. No venomous inverts that I know of!

I have a rabbit fish that had a run in with a tang and disfigured the tangs fins a little and they never recovered 100%.

I was curious about your situation, good luck on this

AstroMelly · Jun 7, 2024

thatmanMIKEson said:
I have a rabbit fish that had a run in with a tang and disfigured the tangs fins a little and they never recovered 100%.

I was curious about your situation, good luck on this

Thank you! I will let you know how we get on. Big bundle of various frozen foods arriving today from this great website (if you are in the UK I would recommend taking a look.

I spoke to Ian Taylor who runs the site yesterday - he was very generous with his time and knowledge - he stocks a very wide selection of frozen foods from many brands and offers next day delivery at a very reasonable price).