Help Please: Velvet/Ich disease - Correct I.D./treatment

[DUPPIE8008]

Good day to all !



Would really appreciate help/guidance regarding the following:

• Added a Hippo tang (from a fellow hobbyist’s tank) to my 220G mixed reef 10 days ago.
• On day three I noticed white spots on the tang that got progressively worse over another two days.
• The symptoms on the Hippo tang seems to be velvet as it has a fuzzy look (protruding from the skin). Noticed that spot size increased from day 3-6.
• Other fish (Lion, Mimic/Tomini tang, rabbits, etc, and even most wrasses) also starting showing symptoms on day 4.
• Started dosing H202 (as per Humblefish/Jessican) on day 4, and added a 55w UV on day 6.
• (have now skipped to week 3 dosing regimen with night time dosing added)
• Currently all fish still shows the symptoms, but doesn’t seem to get worse. All fish are still active and eating, except for the lionfish.
• Unfortunately due to coral and a large aquascape I’m unable to catch any of the fish.

Have I miss diagnosed, or is there anything else I should consider ?

Pardon the poor quality picture.



Thank you !

 

[AlyciaMarie]

#fishmedic

 

[Sharkbait19]

White light pics would help a lot, but I would say that looks like ich.
With velvet, you really don’t see the white coating. The major symptoms are fast respiration and swimming into flow, followed by a quick death.
Lions generally don’t do well with meds, but also tend to be quite disease resistant.
There is no effective reef safe treatment for ich. Your only option is to move the fish into qt and treat with copper.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I agree, the description you made and the visible spots on the tang lean towards ich.

Can you try for a clearer photo?

Velvet will cause rapid breathing and not eating before you see any spots. With ich, you’ll see pinhead white spots that come and go, but generally increase in numbers over time. The fish otherwise seem essentially normal until the end of the infection.

Peroxide dosing seems like an attractive option - easy to get and reef safe at low doses. However, its use was presented in a research paper at a much higher dose, with moving the fish between doses.

Extrapolating from that using a low dose static bath against ich, doesn’t not logically follow.

Peroxide can be a part of an active ich management protocol, but you need to follow other techniques at the same time:

"Ich Management"

Because this topic continues to come up, I wanted to create a sticky thread so that it is more easily referenced. Please understand that I am NOT presenting this as an optimum method for controlling marine ich, just putting it out there for people who want to try it. Also, do not pick and...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[DUPPIE8008]

Good day !

Thank you so much for the assistance and info, appreciate !

Herewith some better images winking-face-with-tongue
From my limited knowledge, the progression now seems to look more like ich on the Hippo tang (larger spots/grains).
The Mimic however still has the much smaller and more numerous spots/fluff (difficult to get a decent picture, but 100's of small spots).
Infection on the other fish doesn't seem to get worse at this stage, Melanurus and Mystery wrasses actually seems to have less spots on their fins. The lionfish is still not eating, and has cloudy eyes, difficult to see any spots on his body.

@Jay Hemdal - Please be so kind as to suggest (link to research paper) the higher/alternate dosage amounts for the H202 treatment

 

[DUPPIE8008]

@Jay Hemdal

Would also appreciate your opinion regarding the use of UV whilst dosing H202, some suggest that the UV negates the use of the H202 due to a more rapid breakdown.

Thanks !

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Good day !

Thank you so much for the assistance and info, appreciate !

Herewith some better images winking-face-with-tongue
From my limited knowledge, the progression now seems to look more like ich on the Hippo tang (larger spots/grains).
The Mimic however still has the much smaller and more numerous spots/fluff (difficult to get a decent picture, but 100's of small spots).
Infection on the other fish doesn't seem to get worse at this stage, Melanurus and Mystery wrasses actually seems to have less spots on their fins. The lionfish is still not eating, and has cloudy eyes, difficult to see any spots on his body.

@Jay Hemdal - Please be so kind as to suggest (link to research paper) the higher/alternate dosage amounts for the H202 treatment

These pictures show a clearer story - while there is likely some ich mixed in, some of the other spots are mucus plugs, a way some tangs respond to stress. Of course, ich can be on of the causes of that sort of stress! I do think you need to treat these fish for ich.

Here is the original paper on using H2O2 against velvet:

(PDF) The Application of Hydrogen Peroxide as a Treatment for the Ectoparasite Amyloodinium ocellatum (Brown 1931) on the Pacific Threadfin Polydactylus sexfilis

PDF | Ectoparasite infections can cause death or a decline in the general health of farm-raised finfish. This paper reports the findings from two... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal

Would also appreciate your opinion regarding the use of UV whilst dosing H202, some suggest that the UV negates the use of the H202 due to a more rapid breakdown.

Thanks !

UV use with peroxide is a bit of an unknown, the chemistry is complicated. Some people say that using both at the same time is fine, there is no effect. Others say that UV breaks down the peroxide (that's what I think happens). However, there is also a group that thinks that the UV potentiates the peroxide, making it work better!

Jay

 

[DUPPIE8008]

@Jay Hemdal

A great thank you Jay, appreciate !

Will continue with the H202 dosing as well as running the UV 24/7
Have also been adding Metroplex as a food soak for the past three day.
Only the second time in 23 years of reefing that my fish got sick, hopefully this will be the last......

 

[DUPPIE8008]

Good day to all

Unfortunately things are getting worse, Mimic tang didn't make it. Lionfish still not eating, eyes also starting to haze up. Hippo tang seems to be the same, many spots still clearly visible, but at least he's eating, and not getting worse.
Gave the lion a H202 bath for 30 minutes two days ago, but had no effect.

Would now like to do a freshwater bath, but with the H202 dosage added.
@Jay Hemdal is this possible, and if so for what period of time ?

Thanks !

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Good day to all

Unfortunately things are getting worse, Mimic tang didn't make it. Lionfish still not eating, eyes also starting to haze up. Hippo tang seems to be the same, many spots still clearly visible, but at least he's eating, and not getting worse.
Gave the lion a H202 bath for 30 minutes two days ago, but had no effect.

Would now like to do a freshwater bath, but with the H202 dosage added.
@Jay Hemdal is this possible, and if so for what period of time ?

Thanks !

I think the infection is well beyond the point where ich management and/or peroxide is going to work. Generally, once fish loss happens, you must immediately go into full treatment mode, and even then, it may not be fast enough to save all of the remaining fish.

Dips have no benefit in treating ich in-situ. These dips only remove a portion of the parasites, and then, when you return the fish to the tank, the resting tomonts are still present and the fish just gets reinfected.

The two best treatments for acute ich infections is hyposalinity or coppersafe. Neither can be done with invertebrates present though.....

 

[DUPPIE8008]

Once again, thanks @Jay Hemdal !
Receiving a Regal Angel pair in the next 3 hours, these will of course go into the quarantine tank (and with my current situation will be there for quite a while) . Will setup another tank and start hypo as soon as possible. Another 55w UV on the way, hopefully this will also assist lowering the free swimming numbers.

Appreciate the guidance !

Regards