Help identify and treat a Copper-Banded Butterfly Issue

[Tamberav]

This is my fish early on after QT so it had been with me 4-8 weeks probably but you can see it is on the skinny side by looking at the head...

and later, now a fatty, as it stares at the feeder begging for more lol

 

[arking_mark]

Too me, the fish looks thinner and the mucus on the sides seems worse. Also, the nip in its dorsal fin hasn't grown back in. Of course, you are seeing the fish in person, but also, seeing it every day may not give you a chance to notice gradual decline over time.

The skin mucus may or may not be an immediate issue. It is caused by some irritation, and sometimes, for o apparent reason at all. Fish normally have mucus on their skin, but under certain circumstances, it becomes thick enough to really show up. The irritation can be disease (flukes, protozoans) or even bacteria. It can also be due to water quality problems and "unidentified stress".

Ultimately, I've seen so many copperbands lose ground like this - eating, but not enough to put on body mass, IMO the prognosis is poor. If you could move the fish to an established tank with lots of inverts, but no other fish, and feed it REALLY well, you might be able to bring it around, but unless you are underfeeding it, you likely will not be able to reverse the issue in the tank that it is currently in.

I think most of the issues with CBB are due to their inherent delicate nature, as well as probable collection with cyanide. The best CBB that I get come direct from Australia.

While "feeding the best diet possible" is an important goal, remember that improving the diet alone is not really a cure for an acute issue, and most dietary deficiencies (except not enough calories) take months to show up.

Jay

@Jay Hemdal Thank you for the feedback.

The fish is in my observation tank which was established identically to my display tank over 2 years ago.

This is a 30gal tank with a DSB and tons of macro algae with lots of pods.

The fish is eating well but not gaining weight. It's eating clams on the half shell continously and a mix of frozen that includes a little of everything 6 plus times a day.

I can transition from observe and feed to some treatment. Options:
1. Cipro dip to treat infection
2. Prazi Pro the tank for parasites
3. Kanaplex in food for infection
4. Bendazone in food for parasites
5. Methylene Blue dip for fungus

Is there a particular treatment or treatments and order you would recommend?

 

[arking_mark]

This is my fish early on after QT so it had been with me 4-8 weeks probably but you can see it is on the skinny side by looking at the head...

View attachment 2965246


and later, now a fatty, as it stares at the feeder begging for more lol

View attachment 2965247

I have a pouch already where it eats clams on the half shell.

I'll up my game with some frozen in there.

Thanks!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal Thank you for the feedback.

The fish is in my observation tank which was established identically to my display tank over 2 years ago.

View attachment 2965327

This is a 30gal tank with a DSB and tons of macro algae with lots of pods.

The fish is eating well but not gaining weight. It's eating clams on the half shell continously and a mix of frozen that includes a little of everything 6 plus times a day.

I can transition from observe and feed to some treatment. Options:
1. Cipro dip to treat infection
2. Prazi Pro the tank for parasites
3. Kanaplex in food for infection
4. Bendazone in food for parasites
5. Methylene Blue dip for fungus

Is there a particular treatment or treatments and order you would recommend?

Internal parasites are often cited as a cause for "skinny fish". Actually though, the parasites don't want to kill the host fish, but if the overall caloric intake is too low, the parasite gets more than their fair share and the fish gets skinny.

If the issue is from malabsorption due to being collected with cyanide, there isn't anything you can do about that.

If you had access to API General Cure (prazi and metro) I'd try that in the water. My second choice would be Prazipro, but that is only effective against tapeworms (and external flukes of course).

Jay


Jay

 

[arking_mark]

Internal parasites are often cited as a cause for "skinny fish". Actually though, the parasites don't want to kill the host fish, but if the overall caloric intake is too low, the parasite gets more than their fair share and the fish gets skinny.

If the issue is from malabsorption due to being collected with cyanide, there isn't anything you can do about that.

If you had access to API General Cure (prazi and metro) I'd try that in the water. My second choice would be Prazipro, but that is only effective against tapeworms (and external flukes of course).

Jay


Jay

Thanks @Jay Hemdal. I'll pickup General Cure today...I never seem to have the recommended treatments on hand despite all those medications I keep.

 

[arking_mark]

General Cure has been administered.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

General Cure has been administered.

Make sure the tank has good aeration.

Jay

 

[arking_mark]

Make sure the tank has good aeration.

Jay

I'll turn up the powerhead and aim at surface

 

[arking_mark]

Make sure the tank has good aeration.

Jay

Should the General Cure not improve symptoms, what should I have in hand for next steps?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Should the General Cure not improve symptoms, what should I have in hand for next steps?

Well, as I said, if it is a malabsorption issue from cyanide, there isn't any treatment, just time to possibly heal with fingers crossed. Ditto for other rare issues that can cause un-thriftiness, like viral diseases and coccidia. You should try
@Tamberav pouch feeding advice.

Jay

 

[arking_mark]

Well, as I said, if it is a malabsorption issue from cyanide, there isn't any treatment, just time to possibly heal with fingers crossed. Ditto for other rare issues that can cause un-thriftiness, like viral diseases and coccidia. You should try
@Tamberav pouch feeding advice.

Jay

Add reef frenzy to the pouch now...

 

[arking_mark]

Well, as I said, if it is a malabsorption issue from cyanide, there isn't any treatment, just time to possibly heal with fingers crossed. Ditto for other rare issues that can cause un-thriftiness, like viral diseases and coccidia. You should try
@Tamberav pouch feeding advice.

Jay

@Jay Hemdal

If the General Cure is going to work, how long before one would expect to see improvement?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal

If the General Cure is going to work, how long before one would expect to see improvement?

I can’t exactly say - if there are parasites and the GC clears them, the fish still has to regain the lost weight…and that will be the issue, could take months.
Jay

 

[arking_mark]

I can’t exactly say - if there are parasites and the GC clears them, the fish still has to regain the lost weight…and that will be the issue, could take months.
Jay

Happy to keep the fish in the OT for the next several months...my stocking list is complete.

 

[arking_mark]

@Jay Hemdal

It's been 48hr after 1st dose of General Cure and I'll be doing the 2nd dose shortly.

Here are updated pictures of the patient...looking for your observations...worse? Better?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal

It's been 48hr after 1st dose of General Cure and I'll be doing the 2nd dose shortly.

Here are updated pictures of the patient...looking for your observations...worse? Better?

View attachment 2968204

View attachment 2968205

View attachment 2968206

View attachment 2968207

White stuff more diffuse, but also more widespread. I think the fish looks marginally better.

Jay

 

[arking_mark]

White stuff more diffuse, but also more widespread. I think the fish looks marginally better.

Jay

Are we still basically treating as infection?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Are we still basically treating as infection?

Right, I'm not convinced that is the underlying issue, but it is the only thing that has an available treatment.

Jay

 

[arking_mark]

Right, I'm not convinced that is the underlying issue, but it is the only thing that has an available treatment.

Jay

Thanks again. I'll post pictures in 48hr...after 2nd dose is done.

 

[arking_mark]

CBB didn't eat well this am...of course when I'm away all day and won't be back till evening to care for the patient. Grrr.