Help ID’ing what is killing my fish

[pocketsand]

Hi All,

I have finally had a fish die (of the several dead so far) that I could get good photos of. My White Tail Bristletooth was in my tank for about 6 weeks and I believe may have been patient zero. I have lost a small fox face, a pink spotted diamond goby, a royal gramma, a black clown goby and have a wrasse that is acting a little funny.

Symptoms thus far have been all over the place. The black clown goby had spotting on him and was dead the next day. The watchman goby never showed any symptoms other than being unseen/not eating for two days. The fox face had no visual signs and was eating like a pig one day and was dead the next morning. The royal gramma was showing signs of some rubbing and some flashing and had less appetite, he eventually disappeared into the rock work and was never seen again.

My tank is very fish friendly with lots of hiding spots so catching everything to fallow was not really on the table. The watchman goby was kind of a rescue (one eyed) and was the first to die so I left that as normal. The fox face died a few days later but was kind of small so I took note and caution but didn’t have any symptoms to treat.

I decided to treat the tank with prazi once I saw the gramma rubbing sand and flashing. From there the white tail started hiding all the time and hadn’t eaten in three days. He was never the active fish I expected out of a tang so he may have been sick early on. He eventually just hid in his spot and breathed rapidly until I scooped up his dead body this morning.

At this point I just want to know what it is. Outside of the black clown goby nothing has any white spots or had white spots. The gramma did some flashing and rubbing, the whitetail had rapid breathing and hid until the end.

I am going to setup a QT today or tomorrow and work on getting the remaining fish out. I think I can easily catch those so it’s a viable option for the fish time. I will fallow for 76 days and go from there unless the diagnosis is something totally different that the marine velvet I suspect. Attached are photos of the whitetail.

My hope is to setup a tank and QT the tanks worth of fish during the fallow period. Treat everything with copper and prazi and have a clean system from there on.

 

[Gman83]

Are there any fish showing symptoms? Can you get a picture or video of them?

 

[pocketsand]

There are not currently any fish showing symptoms. The tang was always in a spot that was impossible to video. Just rapid breathing, no appetite, didn’t want to be in the open (I’m assuming light sensitivity)

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi All,

I have finally had a fish die (of the several dead so far) that I could get good photos of. My White Tail Bristletooth was in my tank for about 6 weeks and I believe may have been patient zero. I have lost a small fox face, a pink spotted diamond goby, a royal gramma, a black clown goby and have a wrasse that is acting a little funny.

Symptoms thus far have been all over the place. The black clown goby had spotting on him and was dead the next day. The watchman goby never showed any symptoms other than being unseen/not eating for two days. The fox face had no visual signs and was eating like a pig one day and was dead the next morning. The royal gramma was showing signs of some rubbing and some flashing and had less appetite, he eventually disappeared into the rock work and was never seen again.

My tank is very fish friendly with lots of hiding spots so catching everything to fallow was not really on the table. The watchman goby was kind of a rescue (one eyed) and was the first to die so I left that as normal. The fox face died a few days later but was kind of small so I took note and caution but didn’t have any symptoms to treat.

I decided to treat the tank with prazi once I saw the gramma rubbing sand and flashing. From there the white tail started hiding all the time and hadn’t eaten in three days. He was never the active fish I expected out of a tang so he may have been sick early on. He eventually just hid in his spot and breathed rapidly until I scooped up his dead body this morning.

At this point I just want to know what it is. Outside of the black clown goby nothing has any white spots or had white spots. The gramma did some flashing and rubbing, the whitetail had rapid breathing and hid until the end.

I am going to setup a QT today or tomorrow and work on getting the remaining fish out. I think I can easily catch those so it’s a viable option for the fish time. I will fallow for 76 days and go from there unless the diagnosis is something totally different that the marine velvet I suspect. Attached are photos of the whitetail.

My hope is to setup a tank and QT the tanks worth of fish during the fallow period. Treat everything with copper and prazi and have a clean system from there on.

Hard to tell from a dead carcass and best when symptoms begin to take pics and videos. Preliminarily, looking at skin may have been velvet. If true, you would have seen fish with elevated breathing, swimming path of water flow, reduced appetite and gasping at surface as examples.

 

[pocketsand]

Hard to tell from a dead carcass and best when symptoms begin to take pics and videos. Preliminarily, looking at skin may have been velvet. If true, you would have seen fish with elevated breathing, swimming path of water flow, reduced appetite and gasping at surface as examples.

Nothing really it the powerheads directly but I bounce mine from rear to front glass. I would have video of the tang if he ever came out of his hole but it was not a feasible place to film. There’s definitely been a drop in appetite for all fish that died with the exception of the fox face.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

There are not currently any fish showing symptoms. The tang was always in a spot that was impossible to video. Just rapid breathing, no appetite, didn’t want to be in the open (I’m assuming light sensitivity)

It could be Amyloodinium (velvet) but that typically kills fish quickly. Flukes will cause the fish to scratch, with losses taking place over a week or two.

In some cases, you cannot visually diagnose between these issues. In those cases, you need to move all of the fish into a quarantine tank and treat with Coppersafe and Prazipro. However, once fish loss has begun in a group of fish, it is often too late to stop more fish from dying, even with a proper treatment.

 

[pocketsand]

It could be Amyloodinium (velvet) but that typically kills fish quickly. Flukes will cause the fish to scratch, with losses taking place over a week or two.

In some cases, you cannot visually diagnose between these issues. In those cases, you need to move all of the fish into a quarantine tank and treat with Coppersafe and Prazipro. However, once fish loss has begun in a group of fish, it is often too late to stop more fish from dying, even with a proper treatment.

This is where my mind is at now as well. Going to setup a QT soon and try and save what is left. From there I will fallow the reef and use that QT to get fish ready for post-fallow. That sound about right?

 

[vetteguy53081]

It could be Amyloodinium (velvet) but that typically kills fish quickly. Flukes will cause the fish to scratch, with losses taking place over a week or two.

In some cases, you cannot visually diagnose between these issues. In those cases, you need to move all of the fish into a quarantine tank and treat with Coppersafe and Prazipro. However, once fish loss has begun in a group of fish, it is often too late to stop more fish from dying, even with a proper treatment.

This is where my mind is at now as well. Going to setup a QT soon and try and save what is left. From there I will fallow the reef and use that QT to get fish ready for post-fallow. That sound about right?

As suggested, do coppersafe for full 30 days at 2.25 monitored with Hanna brand copper kit

 

[Jay Hemdal]

This is where my mind is at now as well. Going to setup a QT soon and try and save what is left. From there I will fallow the reef and use that QT to get fish ready for post-fallow. That sound about right?

Yes - but be sure that you control the ammonia in the QT. If you have any non-calcium filter media in your DT, you can move some over to seed the QT.

 

[Uncle99]

My mysterious fish killer turned out to be a green mantis shrimp, 5”. Was stalking them every few nights. Just happened to see him one night.
Some looked like they’d been in fight, then dead.
Got 4 first until I stopped him. Nasty addition.
Lucky I got him. Thought I had a disease. Nope.

 

[pocketsand]

Yes - but be sure that you control the ammonia in the QT. If you have any non-calcium filter media in your DT, you can move some over to seed the QT.

Yea, I have some sump rock I can use

 

[pocketsand]

My mysterious fish killer turned out to be a green mantis shrimp, 5”. Was stalking them every few nights. Just happened to see him one night.
Some looked like they’d been in fight, then dead.
Got 4 first until I stopped him. Nasty addition.
Lucky I got him. Thought I had a disease. Nope.

I’m considered this but too many symptoms of velvet I think

 

[Uncle99]

I’m considered this but too many symptoms of velvet I think

Just wanted to throw that out there.
It was a huge surprise as no live rock was ever used and the system is many years old.

 

[C. Eymann]

Hard to really be 100% sure of anything without a scraping viewed under a microscope, I see a pretty good sized open sore / ulcer on its side in that last pic, you didn't mention if you had any other tangs or not/ aggression between them, so I assume that's not the case
I must ask have you ever added chromis or anthias to this system? Did other fish that you have lost have ulcers/ sores on their body ? If you answer yes to both those questions, my main suspect would Uronema, not amyloodinium/ Velvet.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Yea, I have some sump rock I can use

If the sump rock is comprised on calcium carbonate (probably is) - it will absorb copper from the water to some degree. That will make this rock unsuitable for later reuse in tanks with invertebrates, and would require careful testing and redosing to ensure that the copper level remains high enough during the treatment.

 

[C. Eymann]

If the sump rock is comprised on calcium carbonate (probably is) - it will absorb copper from the water to some degree. That will make this rock unsuitable for later reuse in tanks with invertebrates, and would require careful testing and redosing to ensure that the copper level remains high enough during the treatment.

Definitely true about copper binding to rock, however, due to the visible open lesion in the last pic, and like you mentioned OP has been losing fish at a much slower rate that typically seen with Amyloodinium. If OPs losses are caused by a pathogen, Uronema is likely the cause

Copper itself is not going to be effective at eradicating it from fish that could be temporarily asymptomatic carriers of it in QT, Copper can only suppress the problem it will not eradicate it
Best course of action in the QT is a combination of Copper and formalin as well as feeding foods laced with Metronidazole to rid the fish of it.

I hope for OPs sake it's not, as Uronema once present in the display is incredibly difficult to completely get rid of.

 

[pocketsand]

Definitely true about copper binding to rock, however, due to the visible open lesion in the last pic, and like you mentioned OP has been losing fish at a much slower rate that typically seen with Amyloodinium. If OPs losses are caused by a pathogen, Uronema is likely the cause

Copper itself is not going to be effective at eradicating it from fish that could be temporarily asymptomatic carriers of it in QT, Copper can only suppress the problem it will not eradicate it
Best course of action in the QT is a combination of Copper and formalin as well as feeding foods laced with Metronidazole to rid the fish of it.

I hope for OPs sake it's not, as Uronema once present in the display is incredibly difficult to completely get rid of.

No other tangs, also no anthia/chromis/damsels. I did consider uronema but have no way of really confirming that. Currently, the remaining fish are two wrasses, a yellow clown goby, and a Fuji goby. The wrasses are finally flashing some and swimming into the powerhead.

I agree on the open wounds on the tang, it’s weird. I never saw it rub, not once.

 

[pocketsand]

If the sump rock is comprised on calcium carbonate (probably is) - it will absorb copper from the water to some degree. That will make this rock unsuitable for later reuse in tanks with invertebrates, and would require careful testing and redosing to ensure that the copper level remains high enough during the treatment.

Yea, I don’t need the rock but if it makes dosing copper harder I will probably skip it

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Definitely true about copper binding to rock, however, due to the visible open lesion in the last pic, and like you mentioned OP has been losing fish at a much slower rate that typically seen with Amyloodinium. If OPs losses are caused by a pathogen, Uronema is likely the cause

Copper itself is not going to be effective at eradicating it from fish that could be temporarily asymptomatic carriers of it in QT, Copper can only suppress the problem it will not eradicate it
Best course of action in the QT is a combination of Copper and formalin as well as feeding foods laced with Metronidazole to rid the fish of it.

I hope for OPs sake it's not, as Uronema once present in the display is incredibly difficult to completely get rid of.

I don’t think this is velvet or Uronema. Most likely flukes. However, since I couldn’t definitively rule out protozoans, I suggested a full treatment copper/prazi to handle both issues.

Inter cellular Uronema is very rare in tangs, and the lesions are typically red, not white like that.

Uronema / Red Band Disease - Hemdal

Red Band Syndrome in Marine Fishes: Caused by the Protozoan; Uronema sp. Jay Hemdal Introduction: This moderately common disease of certain species of marine fish is so often misdiagnosed that most aquarists apply incorrect treatment methods...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[pocketsand]

Adding some pics of my clown goby with some white specs on him