Help! Dosed Citric Acid into Reef Tank Water

[Dan_P]

Running through my options. If balancing ions necessary then perhaps the better solution is using kalk. Don’t know. Just trying to obtain knowledge since this isn’t a likely issue but best be ready because anything can happen.

If there is a concern about ion balance, kalkwasser (CaOH2) would be the way to go.

 

[Miami Reef]

If there is a concern about ion balance, kalkwasser (CaOH2) would be the way to go.

As I said before, a couple dKH added would NOT disturb ionic balance. Ask @Randy Holmes-Farley for the actual math.

Kalkwasser is not good for this scenario because it will add calcium, which wasn’t depleted from the citric acid.

 

[GARRIGA]

If there is a concern about ion balance, kalkwasser (CaOH2) would be the way to go.

Thats the same conclusion I drew. Thx

 

[GARRIGA]

As I said before, a couple dKH added would NOT disturb ionic balance. Ask @Randy Holmes-Farley for the actual math.

Kalkwasser is not good for this scenario because it will add calcium, which wasn’t depleted from the citric acid.

One kh increase results in 20 ppm rise in calcium. I’m less concern with that than the added sodium. I’m thinking just ensure magnesium remains three times the new calcium number and the tank will slowly resolve that.

 

[GARRIGA]

BTW, an overdose of carbon will eventually result in denitrification on nitrates which will return the alkalinity previously lost my understanding. Why I’m only concerned with the sudden drop in alkalinity vs pH. Surface agitation will equalize tank pH to that of room co2 levels my understanding. Plus that will help gas exchange due to the loss of oxygen from increased heterotrophic population explosion.

This has got me again thinking of how to solve a dosing failure using NoPox or other carbon dose solutions.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The goal is getting the pH corrected quickly and replacing any alkalinity that was destroyed by the acid.

The citric acid was a big carbon dose and will be digested, replenishing the alkalinity. I don’t know how long this will take, hence the advice.

I agree. If he hadn’t changed the water, pH and carbon dose effect/bacteria is the concern. Now that he has, any effects are from indirect causes, such as the initial low pH causing longer lasting issues if anything died.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

One kh increase results in 20 ppm rise in calcium. I’m less concern with that than the added sodium. I’m thinking just ensure magnesium remains three times the new calcium number and the tank will slowly resolve that.

One meq/L added by kalkwasser corresponds to a 20 ppm rise in calcium. One dKH is a 7 ppm rise in calcium.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If there is a concern about ion balance, kalkwasser (CaOH2) would be the way to go.

There’s isn’t unless something else happened besides what was reported.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thy being the case then shouldn’t surface agitation solve this naturally without having to do a WC or add chemicals to stimulate the process. Tank should quickly stabilize with the room co2 vs a WC which will shock inhabitants quickly. Speaking in general terms as not all would have the ability to quickly remove inhabitants.

Yes, except the bacterial bloom effects and the alk will be low until the citrate is metabolized.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Wouldn’t adding baking soda or soda ash to quickly replace that lost based on required kh not be the fastest solution?

For example, if the acid dropped kh from 7 to zero then adding enough base to bring it back to 7 I’d expect would be a faster solution than removing 50% to 100% then replacing and not everyone will have 100% immediately available.

I’m also assuming there might still be more acid remaining because kh can’t go below zero and as base is added some of that will be utilized by that remaining acid and might require additional base.

I’m also assuming pH will rise back quickly and needs to be monitored as to how quickly that base can be added.

Not having ever done this but this seems logical according to what I know and now wondering what I’d have to do if this happened to me. Upcoming build will not be pragmatic for me to store even 25% of a WC and trying to accomplish 100% not happening quick enough to solve this for me. Yet adding base seems practical and well within reach.

That will end up with excessive alk after the citrate is metabolized (if any remained, which is unlikely).

 

[SeaShine]

I agree. If he hadn’t changed the water, pH and carbon dose effect/bacteria is the concern. Now that he has, any effects are from indirect causes, such as the initial low pH causing longer lasting issues if anything died.

I'm wondering, is there anything else I can do at this point?

The water isn't cloudy anymore, RFAs look normal, half the toadstools are back but others have a waxy sheen. My sinularias and neptheas look about half-way back except my pink Japanese Nepthea which may or may not make it. It took the hardest hit. Oddly, a green nepthea had a black crust on it that I blew off and is green again. There's nothing really dead in the tank (that I know of). My two Nassarius snails may have been under the sand when it happened and are out and about. I'm wondering if there's anything I can do to help the struggling corals at this point or do I just need to wait.

The alk is 10.9. I don't know the pH since I don't have a tester. Thanks.

 

[Miami Reef]

The pH is 10.9. I don't know the pH since I don't have a tester.

Don’t you mean the alkalinity is 10.9?

 

[SeaShine]

Don’t you mean the alkalinity is 10.9?

Sorry, yes. Alkalinity is 10.9.

 

[GARRIGA]

One meq/L added by kalkwasser corresponds to a 20 ppm rise in calcium. One dKH is a 7 ppm rise in calcium.

That’s interesting. Always though it was based on 1kh = 20 ppm therefore the affect on calcium less than anticipated which makes me feel safer about going the kalk route.

 

[GARRIGA]

That will end up with excessive alk after the citrate is metabolized (if any remained, which is unlikely).

Does that mean not to correct alkalinity and just allow pH to rise naturally as it equalizes with room co2?

My concern being I’m often away and a WC will not be an option as I assume likely for others.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm wondering, is there anything else I can do at this point?

I don't know of anything one can do if organisms are suffering from a past event but are currently in seemingly fine water.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Does that mean not to correct alkalinity and just allow pH to rise naturally as it equalizes with room co2?

My concern being I’m often away and a WC will not be an option as I assume likely for others.

If one overdoses an organic acid such as vinegar or citric acid, pH and alk will drop.

pH will rise again with sufficient aeration.

Alk will rise again with metabolism of the organic.

A large water change helps solve the problems right away.

Adding an alk supplement will initially maintain alk and then cause it to be higher than desired later when the organic is metabolized.

 

[GARRIGA]

If one overdoses an organic acid such as vinegar or citric acid, pH and alk will drop.

pH will rise again with sufficient aeration.

Alk will rise again with metabolism of the organic.

A large water change helps solve the problems right away.

Adding an alk supplement will initially maintain alk and then cause it to be higher than desired later when the organic is metabolized.

My thought process. Not having a WC as an option, I can always add an acid buffer later to lower that alkalinity. Another temporary hit on pH that can be resolved with added aeration.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

My thought process. Not having a WC as an option, I can always add an acid buffer later to lower that alkalinity. Another temporary hit on pH that can be resolved with added aeration.

That's of course fine. It just takes more attention.

 

[GARRIGA]

That's of course fine. It just takes more attention.

Beggars can’t be choosers