Help diagnose, my Blue tang has been in copper for 2 weeks but still sick

[AT427]

I had pulled all my fish from my DT after seeing signs of ich. I lost a sailfin on the first day of copper. My blue tang has been in copper power dosed at 2.5ppm for 2 weeks now and he looked to be ok just some heavy breathing. But a few days ago he started scratching against the rocks again, so I did a fresh water dip thinking maybe flukes and i think some stuff fell off. Today he looks to have white stuff on his head and his tail fin is turning red/orange. Can anyone diagnose and give me the next steps to treat?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I had pulled all my fish from my DT after seeing signs of ich. I lost a sailfin on the first day of copper. My blue tang has been in copper power dosed at 2.5ppm for 2 weeks now and he looked to be ok just some heavy breathing. But a few days ago he started scratching against the rocks again, so I did a fresh water dip thinking maybe flukes and i think some stuff fell off. Today he looks to have white stuff on his head and his tail fin is turning red/orange. Can anyone diagnose and give me the next steps to treat?

For starters, please post a 39 second video of fish with you tube video
In addition, copper takes as much as 3 days for copper to take effect

The issue you describe suggests flukes but let’s start with video for assessment

 

[AT427]

For starters, please post a 39 second video of fish with you tube video
In addition, copper takes as much as 3 days for copper to take effect

The issue you describe suggests flukes but let’s start with video for assessment

 

[vetteguy53081]

As mentioned. need a video of at least 30 seconds as this one was 8 secs and not enough time to see a behavioral pattern unfortunately

 

[AT427]

As mentioned. need a video of at least 30 seconds as this one was 8 secs and not enough time to see a behavioral pattern unfortunately

Here’s 2 more longer videos. I appreciate your help.

 

[MnFish1]

I also wonder about flukes - I also wonder how you're managing to ensure your copper levels are 'good' in a tank with so much rock (which tends to remove copper from the water) - have you noticed fluctuations in the level - do you check more than once/day. Will also eagerly await your video. I was going to say you could add prazipro a bit early in combination with the copper - but - again - more information/the video will help

 

[AT427]

I also wonder about flukes - I also wonder how you're managing to ensure your copper levels are 'good' in a tank with so much rock (which tends to remove copper from the water) - have you noticed fluctuations in the level - do you check more than once/day. Will also eagerly await your video. I was going to say you could add prazipro a bit early in combination with the copper - but - again - more information/the video will help

I added 2 more videos to the post above. I actually only have an api copper tester and I know it’s not that accurate. The color falls between 2ppm or 4ppm. I have checked it everyday. I dosed the exact amount needed for 2.5ppm. I know that’s not that reliable so I have ordered a Hanna checker, I should get that tomorrow and report back. I did have to add a piece of live rock to seed the hospital tank as I pulled all my fish last minute and I have a large bioload with all the fish in a 20 gallon long. I also added a bit of sand for my diamond goby. I know I will need to discard the rock and sand after as copper won’t come out.

The fish were in prazi pro for 5 days in my DT then I pulled them all to do copper as I suspected ich or velvet. The blue tang was fine the first week in copper no scratching. Maybe the fluke eggs hatched and came back after a week. I do want to do 2 more rounds of prazi pro but I think I need them to stay in copper for 30 days first. People say copper and prazi would create a bacteria bloom but it was suggested I try general cure with copper so I may go that route if flukes or other parasites are suspected.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Here’s 2 more longer videos. I appreciate your help.

Thank you for videos. Im Not convinced on flukes however see the heavy breathing also present with a couple other occupants and the hazy water leading to suspicion of lower dissolved oxygen levels.
Is this tank being medicated and with what ?
Water change should be done. How is tank being filtered?

 

[AT427]

Thank you for videos. Im Not convinced on flukes however see the heavy breathing also present with a couple other occupants and the hazy water leading to suspicion of lower dissolved oxygen levels.
Is this tank being medicated and with what ?
Water change should be done. How is tank being filtered?

The glass is a little dirty since I added a light and there’s been some algae. But I think the water quality is ok, I’ve been doing 50% water changes every day at first to keep ammonia down. Now ammonia is near 0 and I do 50% every other day. The tank isn’t fully cycled yet as nitrate still measures high. I just added a larger air bubbler today that can handle twice the water volume as I was expecting I may dose prazi if flukes is suspected. The only thing in the tank right now is copper. I do feed heavily and soak mysis shrimp with selcon to keep up their immune systems and they all eat like pigs. I agree the fox face, scopas tang and blue tang are breathing fast. I use a HOB filter with ceramic rings and foam filter. It’s not that great so I do regularly vaccum up detritus manually.

 

[vetteguy53081]

The glass is a little dirty since I added a light and there’s been some algae. But I think the water quality is ok, I’ve been doing 50% water changes every day at first to keep ammonia down. Now ammonia is near 0 and I do 50% every other day. The tank isn’t fully cycled yet as nitrate still measures high. I just added a larger air bubbler today that can handle twice the water volume as I was expecting I may dose prazi if flukes is suspected. The only thing in the tank right now is copper. I do feed heavily and soak mysis shrimp with selcon to keep up their immune systems and they all eat like pigs. I agree the fox face, scopas tang and blue tang are breathing fast. I use a HOB filter with ceramic rings and foam filter. It’s not that great so I do regularly vaccum up detritus manually.

aVOID OVERFEEDING WHICH IS LIKELY THE CULPRIT FOR HIGHER AMMONA AND NITRATE READINGS. iTS EASIER TO ADD FOOD THAN TO REMOVE IT, ESPECIALLY WITH YOU UTILIZING MECHANICAL FILTRATION ONLY

oOPS - SORRY FOR CAPS...... Just realize it was on Caps Lock

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

Just my 2 cents, but it looks like a lot of fish in a small tank, the fish is trying to swim around and trying to find a hiding spot and just have a bit of personal space, which it can't do. Its a very stressful situation for the fish,

 

[exnisstech]

With those large water changes are you treating the new water with copper to bring it to 2.5 before adding it?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I added 2 more videos to the post above. I actually only have an api copper tester and I know it’s not that accurate. The color falls between 2ppm or 4ppm. I have checked it everyday. I dosed the exact amount needed for 2.5ppm. I know that’s not that reliable so I have ordered a Hanna checker, I should get that tomorrow and report back. I did have to add a piece of live rock to seed the hospital tank as I pulled all my fish last minute and I have a large bioload with all the fish in a 20 gallon long. I also added a bit of sand for my diamond goby. I know I will need to discard the rock and sand after as copper won’t come out.

The fish were in prazi pro for 5 days in my DT then I pulled them all to do copper as I suspected ich or velvet. The blue tang was fine the first week in copper no scratching. Maybe the fluke eggs hatched and came back after a week. I do want to do 2 more rounds of prazi pro but I think I need them to stay in copper for 30 days first. People say copper and prazi would create a bacteria bloom but it was suggested I try general cure with copper so I may go that route if flukes or other parasites are suspected.

Prazi doesn't kill fluke eggs, I suspect that flukes got through. That scratching is a pretty clear symptom of flukes.

 

[AT427]

Just my 2 cents, but it looks like a lot of fish in a small tank, the fish is trying to swim around and trying to find a hiding spot and just have a bit of personal space, which it can't do. Its a very stressful situation for the fish,

That makes sense. I didn’t have much of a choice I had too pull all my fish and my QT is only 20 gallons. Maybe I can add more pvc pipe. The blue tang has settled under the rock as its hiding spot. Not ideal as it’s a tight squeeze.

 

[AT427]

Prazi doesn't kill fluke eggs, I suspect that flukes got through. That scratching is a pretty clear symptom of flukes.

Now the dilemma on how to start prazi while still under copper. I worry about the bacteria bloom that may happen when both are used at the same time.

 

[AT427]

With those large water changes are you treating the new water with copper to bring it to 2.5 before adding it?

That’s a good question. Yes, I have dosed the correct amount of copper in to the new water before adding it to the tank.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Now the dilemma on how to start prazi while still under copper. I worry about the bacteria bloom that may happen when both are used at the same time.

If you can get plain praziquantel powder, that is safer to use with copper than prazipro is (due to the solvent used in prazipro).

 

[AT427]

If you can get plain praziquantel powder, that is safer to use with copper than prazipro is (due to the solvent used in prazipro).

I have general cure. It’s not as strong as prazipro but maybe better than nothing. Then I could do prazi pro after they are done with the 30 days copper of fluke symptoms still persist.

 

[MnFish1]

I have general cure. It’s not as strong as prazipro but maybe better than nothing. Then I could do prazi pro after they are done with the 30 days copper of fluke symptoms still persist.

There is not an absolute contraindication to using Prazipro with copper - it just needs to be more carefully managed. Depending on the symptoms your fish is having would dictate (to me) - whether it makes more sense to add Prazipro with a lot of oxygenation - or wait. My feeling is that General cure + copper would be the third best option - however maybe @Jay Hemdal has a different idea

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I have general cure. It’s not as strong as prazipro but maybe better than nothing. Then I could do prazi pro after they are done with the 30 days copper of fluke symptoms still persist.

General Cure's dose is 2 ppm, Prazipro is reported to be 2.5 and the clinical dose cited in the literature is 2.2, so both will work fine. General Cure has metronidazole in it which helps with some protozoan issues, but makes it less safe for use with invertebrates.