HELP...Algae and flow issues

[kfoerster]

I have a few questions that I'm hoping someone can help with. I've researched the forum and I believe I have 1) flow issue 2) Cyano and 3) possible Dino?

Tank stats are as follows:
6 months old
29 Gallon Coralife BioCube with updated hood (LEDs) - This is when I believe things started to go wrong, hood was added a couple months ago.
Using filter floss and Chemi-Pure Elite in the media tower
Running 1 SW4 powerhead
Have a Hydor 425 mph available to add
Inhabitants: Clean up crew, pistol shrimp, yellow watchman goby, two clowns.....note some of my cleanup crew (specifically the Ceriths) have died off or the pistol has taken them down.
2-3 inch sand bed (Fiji pink)

Parameters and maintenance:
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0
PH - 7.7
Salinity - 1.024
Temp is 81
Water change - 4 gallons per week

Issues:
1) I have what appears to be Cyano growing (red algae)
2) I can't get good flow in the tank, please offer suggestions for powerhead/wavemaker placement using the two listed above....clearly what I have going is NOT working
3) I have another algae issue that is brown LONG stringy hair (you will see a long hair in the video towards the end) can't decide if it is Dino?
4) Corals are dying or certainly not opening with the exception of the GSP and even that is not doing as well as it was.
5) Recommended lighting schedule for LEDs.....I may be running them too long

Video on google drive:


Just looked for next steps....and some help to get my flow correct (see video for current placement, in between returns and pointed towards the front glass).
If more testing is needed I can purchase but wanted some advice before doing anything. I'm trying to take this slow and patient and not make sudden moves.

Thanks in advance! Video of tank

 

[lavoisier]

First, remember that it is not unusual for 6 month tanks to experience the uglies. Heck, even established tanks will have periods of flux. Having said that, it is discouraging when they arrive. A couple of thoughts:

The cyno appears to be forming on a piece of rock that may have lower flow, given the placement of your pump at the back of the tank. You might consider moving the SW4 powerhead to one side and adding the Hydor to the other. This placement would not only increase your flow rate from 34x to 50x but would add some turbulence all around your aquascape.

Consider testing your PO4 as it is an important parameter to keep track of. Though your nitrates are 0 (you might want to run those a little higher) your phosphate may be higher than you would like. Testing will help you determine that.

How much are you feeding daily given your livestock load?

CUC needs to be replenished at regular intervals. I like to do that every 6-12 months. You may be due.

Finally, be patience above all else. 6 months is still a young tank, not fully stablized yet. Our tanks are a journey. Don't try to do everything at once. Change the location of your pump, add another, and give it a few months to see if that helps.

 

[Alchameth]

1. Yep looks like it. I'd remove the chemipure for awhile. Need to get your nitrates up a little. You use RODI water?
2. Looks like you got a fair bit of flow going in there, I ran the 425 in mine with a MJ 1200 return. Either one of those should be good for flow. I'd suggest you not have it between the filter returns. If you want it on the back wall maybe move it to the middle for more of a turbulent flow. Or right so it's on the glass creating more of a whirlpool flow. Some of that depends on what you have for a return pump and return nozzle. I found having a random flow nozzle on the biocubes helped mix up the current pattern.
3. Can't really see what you are talking about here.
4 & 5. are probably tied together if you recently changed the lights. How long are the white lights running? When I had my cube setup with the stock LEDs I ran a 10hr schedule with the whites on for 4 hrs with a mix of LPS and softies that did well.

 

[kfoerster]

First, remember that it is not unusual for 6 month tanks to experience the uglies. Heck, even established tanks will have periods of flux. Having said that, it is discouraging when they arrive. A couple of thoughts:

The cyno appears to be forming on a piece of rock that may have lower flow, given the placement of your pump at the back of the tank. You might consider moving the SW4 powerhead to one side and adding the Hydor to the other. This placement would not only increase your flow rate from 34x to 50x but would add some turbulence all around your aquascape.

Consider testing your PO4 as it is an important parameter to keep track of. Though your nitrates are 0 (you might want to run those a little higher) your phosphate may be higher than you would like. Testing will help you determine that.

How much are you feeding daily given your livestock load?

CUC needs to be replenished at regular intervals. I like to do that every 6-12 months. You may be due.

Finally, be patience above all else. 6 months is still a young tank, not fully stablized yet. Our tanks are a journey. Don't try to do everything at once. Change the location of your pump, add another, and give it a few months to see if that helps.

Thank you so much for the reply and the encouragement. I will admit I'm getting discouraged so this helps. I will order a PO4 test kit. I may be over feeding a bit in the beginning but have cut back quit a bit when this started. I will start with increasing flow/moving my powerhead and seeing where my PO4 is at and go from there.

 

[kfoerster]

1. Yep looks like it. I'd remove the chemipure for awhile. Need to get your nitrates up a little. You use RODI water?
2. Looks like you got a fair bit of flow going in there, I ran the 425 in mine with a MJ 1200 return. Either one of those should be good for flow. I'd suggest you not have it between the filter returns. If you want it on the back wall maybe move it to the middle for more of a turbulent flow. Or right so it's on the glass creating more of a whirlpool flow. Some of that depends on what you have for a return pump and return nozzle. I found having a random flow nozzle on the biocubes helped mix up the current pattern.
3. Can't really see what you are talking about here.
4 & 5. are probably tied together if you recently changed the lights. How long are the white lights running? When I had my cube setup with the stock LEDs I ran a 10hr schedule with the whites on for 4 hrs with a mix of LPS and softies that did well.

Thank you so much! Yes on the RO/DI water. I will remove the chemi pure in addition to the changes mentioned (powerhead move and testing PO4)....I will also reduce my lighting a bit and then see were I am in a few weeks. Thanks so much, it is greatly appreciated!

Note: on #3 the brown long hair algae is so odd, I mean it is all over the tank but can only be seen when the white lights are on, wipes right off the glass or dissolves when I touch it but looks like like human hair. In fact I thought it was my hair at first that was just left behind from a cleaning and then over time it started to grow more and more. I'll try and get a better photo of it but it doesn't photograph well at all.

 

[Subsea]

I am not qualified to help you with flow recommendations in a small tank, but what I saw in the video looked appropriate.

You have both Cynobacteria & Dinos. Both of these nuisances thrive in low nutrients. Cynobacteria mats create their own chemistry scavenging phosphate & nitrate. Vacume the cyno out before it spreads more.

Zero nitrates is bad in a reef tank.
Zero phosphates is bad in a reef tank.

Also, bring your temperature down. Elevated temperatures favor bacteria and push coral to their thermal limit.

 

[kfoerster]

I am not qualified to help you with flow recommendations in a small tank, but what I saw in the video looked appropriate.

You have both Cynobacteria & Dinos. Both of these nuisances thrive in low nutrients. Cynobacteria mats create their own chemistry scavenging phosphate & nitrate. Vacume the cyno out before it spreads more.

Zero nitrates is bad in a reef tank.
Zero phosphates is bad in a reef tank.

Also, bring your temperature down. Elevated temperatures favor bacteria and push coral to their thermal limit.

Okay thank you.....Will reduce temp as well. I knew zero nitrates were bad but had no idea how to raise them. I will start testing for PO4. Thanks so much! I sincerely appreciate all the help I can get.

 

[Subsea]

Okay thank you.....Will reduce temp as well. I knew zero nitrates were bad but had no idea how to raise them. I will start testing for PO4. Thanks so much! I sincerely appreciate all the help I can get.

Feed more. Get more janitors like small Astrae Snails. For your sandbed, consider detrivores like mini brittle stars, strombus snails and best of all, the Pod brothers: amphipod & copepod. They will help long term, Just now, you are the janitor.

: : : : Indo-Pacific Sea Farms : : : :

Indo-Pacific Sea Farms produces captive-bred marine life for healthier reef aquariums: invertebrates, detritivores, live sand, snail grazers, amphipods, beneficial worms, macro algae, plankton, corals, coral food and beneficial bacteria.

ipsf.com

 

[kfoerster]

I have a few questions that I'm hoping someone can help with. I've researched the forum and I believe I have 1) flow issue 2) Cyano and 3) possible Dino?

Tank stats are as follows:
6 months old
29 Gallon Coralife BioCube with updated hood (LEDs) - This is when I believe things started to go wrong, hood was added a couple months ago.
Using filter floss and Chemi-Pure Elite in the media tower
Running 1 SW4 powerhead
Have a Hydor 425 mph available to add
Inhabitants: Clean up crew, pistol shrimp, yellow watchman goby, two clowns.....note some of my cleanup crew (specifically the Ceriths) have died off or the pistol has taken them down.
2-3 inch sand bed (Fiji pink)

Parameters and maintenance:
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0
PH - 7.7
Salinity - 1.024
Temp is 81
Water change - 4 gallons per week

Issues:
1) I have what appears to be Cyano growing (red algae)
2) I can't get good flow in the tank, please offer suggestions for powerhead/wavemaker placement using the two listed above....clearly what I have going is NOT working
3) I have another algae issue that is brown LONG stringy hair (you will see a long hair in the video towards the end) can't decide if it is Dino?
4) Corals are dying or certainly not opening with the exception of the GSP and even that is not doing as well as it was.
5) Recommended lighting schedule for LEDs.....I may be running them too long

Video on google drive:


Just looked for next steps....and some help to get my flow correct (see video for current placement, in between returns and pointed towards the front glass).
If more testing is needed I can purchase but wanted some advice before doing anything. I'm trying to take this slow and patient and not make sudden moves.

Thanks in advance! Video of tank

@lavoisier @Alchameth Things are not improving here sadly. I'm still doing weekly water changes. PO4 is 0 with my new Salifert test kit. NO3 also zero with a new Saliftert test kit (was using API before)

I increased feeding and now running the white lights 4 hours a day. Fish are fine but corals continue to die out. I have continued to do a 10% water change weekly and use a toothbrush to clean as much off the rock and syphon the sand as much as I can.

I definitely have a Dino outbreak, it is covering the entire tank (rock and sand). I've spent hours reading the forums for next steps and I've come to the following options.

Dosing hydrogen peroxide 1mL/gallon nightly
Turning up the heat
Blackout for 3-4 days

Do I stop water changes for awhile?

Nothing seems to increase my nitrates (example over feeding) as the Cyano and Dinos appears to be sucking nutrients up faster than I can create them. I'm trying hard not to want to give up.

Any advise on next steps is greatly appreciated. I have learned the hard lesson that a "clean tank" isn't always a "healthy tank". Sigh.....

 

[Alchameth]

I've no experience dosing Hydrogen Peroxide in a reef tank so I can't speak to that. Lots have with success, I'm just cautious with this as it is not picky what organic material it affects, which includes corals and fish... I've used it on my freshwater tanks for misc algae's with mixed success and typically low enough that I never observed any issues with fish or snails. 10% change weekly isn't really needed, If you are trying to brush/remove some of the stuff run it through a filter sock into a clean bucket and pour the water back in. Or stirr it up and put some poly batting on top of your media basket and replace it 1-2 hours after you kick up the crud in the tank.

I currently am using a few things from Brightwell on one of my tanks in trying to get them up to avoid this exact thing.
MicroBacter7
NeoPhos
NeoNitro
All 3 of these in 500ML can be bought online for < $40... Lots to choose out there for things that do this, these are just what I use.

You could also look at a small AIO UV. I have a Green Killing Machine 9W that I use on my 15G freshwater. It was quick to get, has a pump attached, and submersible... and in the end did what I needed it to the 2 times I've had to use it.

If you are running any chemical media, remove it while doing this. If I were in your position, after what you've done I'd try chemicals to try to raise PO3 and NO4 + a UV + 3 day blackout. If you have a skimmer, turn that off too.

 

[kfoerster]

I've no experience dosing Hydrogen Peroxide in a reef tank so I can't speak to that. Lots have with success, I'm just cautious with this as it is not picky what organic material it affects, which includes corals and fish... I've used it on my freshwater tanks for misc algae's with mixed success and typically low enough that I never observed any issues with fish or snails. 10% change weekly isn't really needed, If you are trying to brush/remove some of the stuff run it through a filter sock into a clean bucket and pour the water back in. Or stirr it up and put some poly batting on top of your media basket and replace it 1-2 hours after you kick up the crud in the tank.

I currently am using a few things from Brightwell on one of my tanks in trying to get them up to avoid this exact thing.
MicroBacter7
NeoPhos
NeoNitro
All 3 of these in 500ML can be bought online for < $40... Lots to choose out there for things that do this, these are just what I use.

You could also look at a small AIO UV. I have a Green Killing Machine 9W that I use on my 15G freshwater. It was quick to get, has a pump attached, and submersible... and in the end did what I needed it to the 2 times I've had to use it.

If you are running any chemical media, remove it while doing this. If I were in your position, after what you've done I'd try chemicals to try to raise PO3 and NO4 + a UV + 3 day blackout. If you have a skimmer, turn that off too

@Alchameth Thank you for taking the time to reply and help out. Much appreciated. I have removed all media beyond filter floss, turned off my skimmer, and my MicroBacter7, NeoPhos, and NeoNitro arrived today. Notably I cleaned the tank last night brushed off as much as I could and scooped off the Dinos on the sand. By this afternoon they are all back.

Given an assumption that my PO4 and NO3 are both still zero how would you go about dosing?

Upon reading the bottle it appears I will do the following daily but want to confirm I an understanding correctly:

29 gallon tank:

Microbactor7 - 3 drops per day max (it says low nutrient tanks of my size 1 drop every other day for low nutrient system) No clue what. 'drop' means since the bottle doesn't come with a dropper
NeoPhos - 2 mL to raise PO4 to 0.02 ppm (29 x .02 x 3.785)
NeoNitro - 1 mL to raise NO3 to .3 ppm (29 x .3 x .1261)

Basically dose this above, wait 24 hours, test again and see where I am at and then keep adjusting dose to maintain the desired parameters (PO4 at .02 and NO3 at .3)? Correct?

 

[Subsea]

@lavoisier @Alchameth Things are not improving here sadly. I'm still doing weekly water changes. PO4 is 0 with my new Salifert test kit. NO3 also zero with a new Saliftert test kit (was using API before)

I increased feeding and now running the white lights 4 hours a day. Fish are fine but corals continue to die out. I have continued to do a 10% water change weekly and use a toothbrush to clean as much off the rock and syphon the sand as much as I can.

I definitely have a Dino outbreak, it is covering the entire tank (rock and sand). I've spent hours reading the forums for next steps and I've come to the following options.

Dosing hydrogen peroxide 1mL/gallon nightly
Turning up the heat
Blackout for 3-4 days

Do I stop water changes for awhile?

Nothing seems to increase my nitrates (example over feeding) as the Cyano and Dinos appears to be sucking nutrients up faster than I can create them. I'm trying hard not to want to give up.

Any advise on next steps is greatly appreciated. I have learned the hard lesson that a "clean tank" isn't always a "healthy tank". Sigh.....

Why increasing heat?

On your original post you said pH was 7.7. You should know this is a low pH and usually indicative of high co2 and low O2. When was that pH reading done in relation to light cycle. By turning off protein skimmer you have reduced gas exchange, which will further exasperate the problem. Use robust surface agitation. You might even consider putting an air bubbler in refugium if you have one.
In my 75G tank I generate a vertical loop current with minimum electricity. Pump from refugium discharges at top left of tank and flows to top right. HOB on right side crearts vertical sheer and turns current down to flow from bottom right to bottom left and complete the vertical loop with inertia as a large contributor. My tank is a long rectangle and this would not work in your bio cube.

By increasing water temperature, you reduce the oxygen holding capacity of water, very bad for coral and much worse than low pH.

PS. If you have access, borrow an oxygen meter.

 

[Alchameth]

I follow the dosing directions on each bottle. I alternate, day 1 MB7, day 2 Nitro & Phos but if you are doing 3 day blackout I'd dose all 3, just space them out an hour or so or make sure to dilute with a cup of tank water.

I dose for .02 on PO4 which your 2mL is good for, 3ppm on NO3 so that would be 10.97 mL, call it 2 capfuls. MB7 for low nutrients is 5mL per 50G so about half a capfull of that.

Yes dose then retest the following day, best to test around the same time if you can manage it.

 

[kfoerster]

Why increasing heat?

On your original post you said pH was 7.7. You should know this is a low pH and usually indicative of high co2 and low O2. When was that pH reading done in relation to light cycle. By turning off protein skimmer you have reduced gas exchange, which will further exasperate the problem. Use robust surface agitation. You might even consider putting an air bubbler in refugium if you have one.
In my 75G tank I generate a vertical loop current with minimum electricity. Pump from refugium discharges at top left of tank and flows to top right. HOB on right side crearts vertical sheer and turns current down to flow from bottom right to bottom left and complete the vertical loop with inertia as a large contributor. My tank is a long rectangle and this would not work in your bio cube.

By increasing water temperature, you reduce the oxygen holding capacity of water, very bad for coral and much worse than low pH.

PS. If you have access, borrow an oxygen meter.

I had increased the heat in an attempt to control Cyano (black out and increased heat). It worked but only very short term. Tank has been running at 78-79 degrees now for just under 2 weeks.

 

[kfoerster]

I follow the dosing directions on each bottle. I alternate, day 1 MB7, day 2 Nitro & Phos but if you are doing 3 day blackout I'd dose all 3, just space them out an hour or so or make sure to dilute with a cup of tank water.

I dose for .02 on PO4 which your 2mL is good for, 3ppm on NO3 so that would be 10.97 mL, call it 2 capfuls. MB7 for low nutrients is 5mL per 50G so about half a capfull of that.

Yes dose then retest the following day, best to test around the same time if you can manage it.

@Alchameth thanks so much again for the help! Hopefully this does the trick.

 

[Subsea]

@kfoerster
I looked for a tank thread to better understand details of your system. From some of your differrent threads I gather you have been out of the hobby for 4 yrs and got back in 6 months ago. Aside from nitrogen fixation bacteria what other source of diversity have you added to this tank. Continue following @Alchameth on getting your major nutrients of nitrogen & phosphorous up.
Also, you need to add diversity of micro fauna & fana to compete with and consume dino & cyno. Then you need detrivores to recycle waste into live food for hungry mouths. What you are experiencing is normal for a tank started with bottled bacteria. Consider getting mature live sand fron a healthy system to inoculate your system.

Put a small one of these uncured diver collected live rocks to increase your good diversity. For certain, it will bring nitrates & phosphates up.

Gulf Live Rock.com

gulfliverock.com

 

[Subsea]

I had increased the heat in an attempt to control Cyano (black out and increased heat). It worked but only very short term. Tank has been running at 78-79 degrees now for just under 2 weeks.

Why is your pH so low? Alkalinity, oxygen or co2 concentration are all possibilities.

 

[kfoerster]

@kfoerster
I looked for a tank thread to better understand details of your system. From some of your differrent threads I gather you have been out of the hobby for 4 yrs and got back in 6 months ago. Aside from nitrogen fixation bacteria what other source of diversity have you added to this tank. Continue following @Alchameth on getting your major nutrients of nitrogen & phosphorous up.
Also, you need to add diversity of micro fauna & fana to compete with and consume dino & cyno. Then you need detrivores to recycle waste into live food for hungry mouths. What you are experiencing is normal for a tank started with bottled bacteria. Consider getting mature live sand fron a healthy system to inoculate your system.

Put a small one of these uncured diver collected live rocks to increase your good diversity. For certain, it will bring nitrates & phosphates up.

Gulf Live Rock.com

gulfliverock.com

Thanks @Subsea appreciate your input. Yep you are correct, restarted the hobby last June. Tank was not started with bottle bacteria. It was started with dosing ammonia and adding live rock. I didn't realize my pH was low at 7.7 I thought it was in range (or close to it) where 7.6 - 8.4 was adequate.

 

[acshaw80]

Did raising temp help reduce dinos? I’m battling them as well. Starting blackout tonight and dosing H2O2 1ml/gal for a few days.

Sucked out as much as I could today.
I’ve read that you should stop cleaning algae from your glass and let your tank dirty up (ie no water changes).

also read no dosing of amino acids or target feeding corals.

I’ll defer to the more experienced members as to whether this is correct.

 

[Subsea]

Thanks @Subsea appreciate your input. Yep you are correct, restarted the hobby last June. Tank was not started with bottle bacteria. It was started with dosing ammonia and adding live rock. I didn't realize my pH was low at 7.7 I thought it was in range (or close to it) where 7.6 - 8.4 was adequate.

Be careful with acceptable & adequate. I am a 50yr addicted hobiest who provides TLC to inhabitants from our oceans. I strive to achieve a thriving enviroment for these beautiful creatures.

Generalizations are often misleading. I have been doing marine tanks for 50 years. Nordic philosopher, Mister Anderson, defined an expert as someone who has made every possible mistake in a field of endevor. Just call me persistent.

I had increased the heat in an attempt to control Cyano (black out and increased heat). It worked but only very short term. Tank has been running at 78-79 degrees now for just under 2 weeks.

Cynobacteria are very oppurtunistic. In my experiences, elevated temperatures (within limits) favor bacteria at the expense of everything else. Every reef tank has Cynobacteria, they are imbedded in coral biomass.