Grounding probes… Pros and Dangers

[Reefering1]

If you have another outlet in the room that is on the same circuit of the tank, you can install a gfci wall receptacle there. More than one outlet can be connected to a gfci outlet. I’m talking about the hardwired kind, not the plug in type. Just be sure to closely follow the instructions. Also, depending on your electrical service, a gfci breaker can be installed in the breaker box.

Special attention would need to be paid to the line and load. You would put the gfci where the homerun from the breaker panel enters the room, and the remaining outlets would connect to the load

 

[FernBluffReef]

I don't have multiple circuits. So what I did is add a second set of recepticals to the circuit. Two plugs are GFCI and two plugs are unprotected. The reason I did this is so I could install a desktop UPS for battery backup on the return pump. Installing a UPS on GFCI can cause false trips due to floating grounds and the UPS defeats GFCI anyway. So I take a risk with the return pump and protect me with all the rest. Hopefully not a compermise that ever comes to roost but I also want the limited reduncy.

 

[Enrique7]

No GFCI. Insulated tank. Faulted light fixture. Rubber shoes. Hand in tank. Face touches fixture. Maybe a tingle maybe not.

No GFCI. Grounded tank. Faulted light fixture. Rubber shoes. Hand in tank. Face touches fixture. You are the wire. You die.

GFCI. Insulated or grounded tank. Faulted light fixture. Any shoes or bare feet. Hand in tank. Face touches fixture. GFCI trips. You live to eat bacon another day.

That is one of many dangers using a ground probe and no GFCI. Ground probes in an aquarium scenario create acute dangers that would not otherwise exist if they are used without full GFCi protection in and near the aquarium.

Again, a circuit breaker has nothing to do with personal protection against shock or electrocution. It is a safety device sized to protect the wire on the circuit, not you or the utilization equipment.

Ok. Now this is making sense. So, If my tanks are not on gfci outlets but my grounding probe is on a GFCI.. So, should have everything on GFCI? We have a lot of power outages and between the outage and my transfer switch and generator kicking in and then switching back to power company I get a lot of tripped things.
I appreciate your help

 

[BeanAnimal]

Your loads should not drop when the transfer switch flips back over to utility power (for most transfer switches) if it is automatic.

Everything should be on a GFCI if you use a grounding probe.

 

[ScottD]

Ok. Now this is making sense. So, If my tanks are not on gfci outlets but my grounding probe is on a GFCI.. So, should have everything on GFCI? We have a lot of power outages and between the outage and my transfer switch and generator kicking in and then switching back to power company I get a lot of tripped things.
I appreciate your help

It doesn’t matter that the grounding probe is on a gfci. The ground isn’t protected by a gfci. Even something with just 2 prongs, without the ground prong will trip if shorted on a gfci.
If something was to be shorted while not on a gfci, there would be no gfci to cut the power and protect you. The gfci outlet turns off the power to stop it from killing you. All equipment needs to be on the gfci or downstream from a gfci to give protection.

 

[OrionN]

No GFCI. Insulated tank. Faulted light fixture. Rubber shoes. Hand in tank. Face touches fixture. Maybe a tingle maybe not.

No GFCI. Grounded tank. Faulted light fixture. Rubber shoes. Hand in tank. Face touches fixture. You are the wire. You die.

GFCI. Insulated or grounded tank. Faulted light fixture. Any shoes or bare feet. Hand in tank. Face touches fixture. GFCI trips. You live to eat bacon another day.

That is one of many dangers using a ground probe and no GFCI. Ground probes in an aquarium scenario create acute dangers that would not otherwise exist if they are used without full GFCi protection in and near the aquarium.

Again, a circuit breaker has nothing to do with personal protection against shock or electrocution. It is a safety device sized to protect the wire on the circuit, not you or the utilization equipment.

This is why all fixtures inside or outside of the tank should be on GFCI, but if not, it should at least be grounded. There should never be any part that have the potential to be hot around water, especially salt water.
At least one time about 13 years ago, prior to having my fish room, one of my Hamilton MH fixtures shorted out. It burns my outlet and shut down the circuit breaker. Imagin if the fixture was not grounded, the light would work just fine, and the metal housing would be fully power at 120 volts. Touching the fixture, it would have killed me.
Ground probe is not needed, but all parts of our tank and reef equipment's should be on functional GFCI. IMHO, it is best all outlet is individually GFCI. It only cost a bit more, less than 100 dollars to change all outlet to GFCI. This will remove your name from the Electrical Darwin Sweepstake.

 

[dr_vinnie_boombatz]

Only use them with a gfci outlet. This will trip the tank if the equipment shorts out. Otherwise a fire or electric shock can occur in the event of a short. If the gfci keeps tripping, then some equipment is bad. I’d rather lose the tank than myself and/or my home. I have five tanks that are all their own gfci circuit with a ground probe.

Does it work with AFCI outlets?

 

[ShakeyGizzard]

Your whole house can be proteced by GFCI, you can equip your main panel with them. May take some knowledge of house wiring, but yes , each circuit can be protected. On a side note, Only one, I repeat, only one, GFCI per circuit

 

[Dom]

So funny that this thread should pop up.

I just installed my grounding probe last night. My entire tank goes through GFCI.

 

[Reefering1]

Does it work with AFCI outlets?

Your whole house can be proteced by GFCI, you can equip your main panel with them. May take some knowledge of house wiring, but yes , each circuit can be protected. On a side note, Only one, I repeat, only one, GFCI per circuit

Note the difference of Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter(GFCI) and Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter(AFCI)... AFCI detects and trip if there is a arc(spark).

 

[dr_vinnie_boombatz]

Note the difference of Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter(GFCI) and Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter(AFCI)... AFCI detects and trip if there is a arc(spark).

Yeah I mistyped, my circuit breakers are AFCI. I'm checking with an electrician if I can swap standard outlets to GFCI keeping the AFCI circuit breaks and be good with code

 

[BeanAnimal]

On a side note, Only one, I repeat, only one, GFCI per circuit

That is a common misconception.

Daisy chaining GFCIs (Load side of GFCI #1 feeding the line side of GFCI #2)
- This will work and both GFCIs will offer ground fault protection.
- Resetting can be confusing if you are unaware that (2) GFCIs in series may have tripped.
- Nuisance tripping due to different sensitivities can (in theory) happen. It typically does not. The parasitic consumption of the comparator circuit is negligible in a modern GFCI. First generation devices were a different story.
--- bottom line, the general advice to not put GFCIs in series is reasonable.

Feeding the LINE side of numerous GFCIS from a circuit is perfectly acceptable and is done regularly. There is no issue with this whatsoever. GFCI #1 and GFCI #2, etc, have NOTHING to do with each other. They work independently.

 

[dr_vinnie_boombatz]

I checked with my electrician friend and my circuit breaker is AFCI + GFCI so I don't need to swap for a GFCI outlet. Does anyone know if I can safely ground the tank if it's at the breaker and not outlet?

EDIT: answered in another thread, I can!

 

[BeanAnimal]

Yeah I mistyped, my circuit breakers are AFCI. I'm checking with an electrician if I can swap standard outlets to GFCI keeping the AFCI circuit breaks and be good with code

You need to first check and see if they are just AFCI or combo AFCI/GFCI
If they are combo you are good to go. If they are not, adding GFCI receptacles is fine and not a code violation.

Edit - you posted as I was typing.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I checked with my electrician friend and my circuit breaker is AFCI + GFCI so I don't need to swap for a GFCI outlet. Does anyone know if I can safely ground the tank if it's at the breaker and not outlet?

You can ground the tank if you wish.

 

[Reefering1]

I checked with my electrician friend and my circuit breaker is AFCI + GFCI so I don't need to swap for a GFCI outlet. Does anyone know if I can safely ground the tank if it's at the breaker and not outlet?

Did your electrician friend actually look at it and say that or assume it's both?

 

[dr_vinnie_boombatz]

Did your electrician friend actually look at it and say that or assume it's both?

Yes, looked via photos. The buttons are purple color, "the purple test button indicates that it is a Dual Function (GFCI and CAFCI) breaker."

 

[OrionN]

….. On a side note, Only one, I repeat, only one, GFCI per circuit

This is not true. You can connect each outlet in parallel and have the GFCI just interrupted only that outlet. You can also connect the first outlet and everything else in series to that GFCI and it will trip and shut off the whole circuit if anything get ground fault.
In my fish room, I connect all my outlet in parallell with GFCI on each outlet so only that outlet will shut off, not the whole circuit when ground fault detected.

 

[Sod Buster]

Your 1st outlet on the circuit should be the gfci. All other outlets on that circuit chained together are protected by that 1st one. You need one circuit in series... Black goes to gold, white to silver. The white "neutral" goes to ground in your breaker box eventually. Over thinking things. If you short, it will pop the gfci in series, and kill all electric from that 1st outlet protecting the circuit and following outlets on the same wires "circuit". Hit the reset button w/ stuff unplugged. Then plug in one at a time to find the short. I'm not an electrician and hold no responsibility for what anyone does in their home.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Your 1st outlet on the circuit should be the gfci. All other outlets on that circuit chained together are protected by that 1st one. You need one circuit in series... Black goes to gold, white to silver. The white "neutral" goes to ground in your breaker box eventually. Over thinking things. If you short, it will pop the gfci in series, and kill all electric from that 1st outlet protecting the circuit and following outlets on the same wires "circuit". Hit the reset button w/ stuff unplugged. Then plug in one at a time to find the short. I'm not an electrician and hold no responsibility for what anyone does in their home.

For our purposes, it is better to use an individual GFCI at each location instead of protecting them all with a single unit.
This removes the single point of failure and also distributes leakage current over multiple units instead of summing it onto one. This helps prevent nuisance trips.