GHA- Is there anything else I can do???

[BeejReef]

I'll throw in my own 2 cents only because you're earnestly searching for answers and brainstorming, not bc I consider myself an expert. The vivaspectras are really powerful and put out a pretty full spectrum. That could be a contributing factor.

I think a chaeto fuge is very wise, but it's probably too soon for it to be making a huge impact. Be sure it has a kick butt fuge light.

I feel your pain. How can it be a nutrient issue when most tanks run higher levels, have at least a hint of algae here or there, but it does not take over?

I tend to subscribe to the concept that after the initial explosive outburst of algae, it became the primary consumer in your system. I found this post very interesting.

#1 WHAT IF I TOLD YOU... Ammonia is causing your algae problems?

After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill - the story ends, you keep believing that nitrate and phosphate are the cause of your algae problems. You take the red pill - I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. This image was created by @Fish_Sticks, ©2019, All Rights...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[LesPoissons]

I’ve had a similar issue to this the water column has 0 nutrients but the rock is bound up, GHA grows here as it’s the first thing to feed on it as it’s purges. To test this I removed a piece of rock when I did a water change, tested water column for nutrients and then left the rock overnight in water (with heater) and tested water again in the rock bucket .. be sure to remove all GHA when you place rock in bucket then you’ll see if your rock is indeed leaching bound up nutrients

I can try this, but since the system has had near undetecatable phos and nitrate since I started it, I cant imagine where it would accumulate so much phos to be leaching enough for a recent algae outbreak when I had years without algae before?

 

[brandon429]

causative theory is supported, the algae remains. its a large tank agreed, not easy to access...but that is among the accepted reasons for keeping the algae we see among work threads. its too bad manual work is whats best, everything else subjects your corals to param changes though they may not require that.

the growback considering zero hand guiding is quite amazing actually, doesn't look bad at all above. second round = less growback.

this was the price for the initial wait, more than one attempt. big tankers probs yep but you guys get the nice fish too.

Until you find the matched grazer for it, manual removal is what works pics show. Its not bad now, but before it gets to critical mass, intercept.

Also, if you reach in and grab sand, and drop it, does a totally massive clouding result

what about swishing a test rock mid tank, does it cast off massive gha feed

 

[LesPoissons]

I'll throw in my own 2 cents only because you're earnestly searching for answers and brainstorming, not bc I consider myself an expert. The vivaspectras are really powerful and put out a pretty full spectrum. That could be a contributing factor.

I think a chaeto fuge is very wise, but it's probably too soon for it to be making a huge impact. Be sure it has a kick *** fuge light.

I feel your pain. How can it be a nutrient issue when most tanks run higher levels, have at least a hint of algae here or there, but it does not take over?

I tend to subscribe to the concept that after the initial explosive outburst of algae, it became the primary consumer in your system. I found this post very interesting.

#1 WHAT IF I TOLD YOU... Ammonia is causing your algae problems?

After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill - the story ends, you keep believing that nitrate and phosphate are the cause of your algae problems. You take the red pill - I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. This image was created by @Fish_Sticks, ©2019, All Rights...

www.reef2reef.com

Thank you, I did read this article, and have since started blowing off my rocks weekly, I actually changed out my entire sump for a new one to rid it of detitus, I changed all lights to blue light only on my display for a month. I removed as much of the gha as possible and then I added #10s of new live rock cured at my lfs and dosed with a bottle of bacteria to see if maybe the gha wasnt giving the batcteria enough of a shot. If that was the case, my attempt failed and here we are. Again. I appreciate the .02 = )

 

[LesPoissons]

causative theory is supported, the algae remains. its a large tank agreed, not easy to access...but that is among the accepted reasons for keeping the algae we see among work threads. its too bad manual work is whats best, everything else subjects your corals to param changes though they may not require that.

the growback considering zero hand guiding is quite amazing actually, doesn't look bad at all above. second round = less growback.

this was the price for the initial wait, more than one attempt. big tankers probs yep but you guys get the nice fish too.

Until you find the matched grazer for it, manual removal is what works pics show. Its not bad now, but before it gets to critical mass, intercept.

Also, if you reach in and grab sand, and drop it, does a totally massive clouding result

what about swishing a test rock mid tank, does it cast off massive gha feed

I cant reach the bottom by hand but if I scoop up sand from all the way through the sand bed and drop it it clouds and is gone in about 5 seconds. Idk what that means. The sand is a mix of sands and some miracle mud was added at one point when I grew turtle grass.
If I shake a gha rock at mid level nothing happens. No gha came off, no cloud etc.

 

[ZoWhat]

I have the same problem....the only thing I can put my finger on is I have "old tank syndrome "

Meaning my LR is 12yrs old in the same tank and is prob saturated with NO3/PO4 over the years.

Only solution is to pull the LR and violently swoosh the LR in RODI to release the NO3/PO4

PROBLEM is my LR are huge boulders slightly bigger than bowling balls. With coral growing on them.

I'm prob going back to heavily dosing vodka daily and DrTims monthly.

My poor dang fish only get fed a small amt of food once a day to cut down on nutrients. My lights are also very dim, but I have mostly zoas/palys so its cool.


I wish you luck...hoping you can swish your LR

 

[LesPoissons]

I have the same problem....the only thing I can put my finger on is I have "old tank syndrome "

Meaning my LR is 12yrs old in the same tank and is prob saturated with NO3/PO4 over the years.

Only solution is to pull the LR and violently swoosh the LR in RODI to release the NO3/PO4

PROBLEM is my LR are huge boulders slightly bigger than bowling balls. With coral growing on them.

I'm prob going back to heavily dosing vodka daily and DrTims monthly.

My poor dang fish only get fed a small amt of food once a day to cut down on nutrients. My lights are also very dim, but I have mostly zoas/palys so its cool.


I wish you luck...hoping you can swish your LR

Thank you, I agree, A lot of my pieces are large, everything has corals and/or nems on it too so breaking down the rock work completely would basically be the end of this tank for me bc there is gha on the base rock too. At that point i would probably scrap it all and start over with fresh rock but its only 3 years old and has tested very low phos and nitrates since the beginning.

 

[IslandLifeReef]

I cant reach the bottom by hand but if I scoop up sand from all the way through the sand bed and drop it it clouds and is gone in about 5 seconds. Idk what that means. The sand is a mix of sands and some miracle mud was added at one point when I grew turtle grass.
If I shake a gha rock at mid level nothing happens. No gha came off, no cloud etc.

I had a GHA problem that was worse than your pictures. The same thing happened to my sand when I would scoop it up. I sort of followed @brandon429's advice and vacuumed the sand, including under the rocks, until I wouldn't get a cloud of detritus when I dropped the sand. This, IMO, was the key to winning the battle. That detritus is providing a constant food source for the algae that may not show up in your test kits. It took me about an hour of running water through my filter sock and back into my sump. My DT is only 40 gallons. Using the filter sock saved me from having to do this over multiple water changes, or removing and rinsing the sand. Just an option.

I feel if you get that sand clean, and with the turbo charged clean up crew and manual removal, in a couple of weeks you will have a hard time finding GHA in your tank.

 

[brandon429]

no need to do the cloud its good you are at least aware of it. having some light clouding isn't a prob, my sb would lightly cloud too if disturbed but its running uninvaded so I don't mind as much.

your tank really is ok and even better you have mature rock and coralline which only gets better in time, and really helps exclude algae...any compounding effort helps.

you still have options like drain most water into a brute, spot treat directly in tank, in the air, using way less than norm and as drops not mist, let sit a couple mins and refill. That's an easy cheat, refill using the caught water/not having to make new. another access option

 

[LesPoissons]

Okay, so I think tomorrow I will scrub the rocks to get off what gha i can and syphon through a sock into the sump, then continue on vaccuming the sand through the sock to try to rid some detritus built up in the sand bed. Ill switch back to blues and let the clean up crew get to it for a couple weeks. If that doesnt improve things then I will drain some of the tank and try the h202 method again.

Thank you everyone. This is such a helpful forum!!!!! I really appreciate all the ideas!

 

[brandon429]

hey your tank is really clean I'm impressed

pics of that sandbed passing a drop test, you've been running things mighty balanced / acknwldgd

 

[LesPoissons]

Yay! Thank you!
It's my 1st saltwater tank so I've tried hard to do things well. I went big bc I had the option but sometimes its really daunting when things start going wrong.

 

[Rockytop_Reefer]

I tried Fluconozole and I think it knocked it down a little but it was still very visible. So then I tried Vibrant. It took a few weeks of dosing but it eliminated all the hair algae. (It also crippled my macro algae as well. It’s been weeks since I stopped dosing Vibrant but seems like I’ll need to throw it out all and get a new batch).

The marketing on the bottle will make you think this will take care of your hair algae fast but it’ll be a slow and steady approach for a few weeks. I’d start dosing less than what is recommend to start with but as time went on I was dosing it much heavier than what was recommended to no detriment to my corals other than some Rhodactis mushrooms shriveling up. After all the algae was gone I did develop Dino’s. This was because Vibrant took my nitrates down to zero as I wasn’t testing them really. So you may want to test them or feed heavy while dosing Vibrant if you decide to.

I stopped my weekly water changes, let the nitrates build up a little, left algae on the glass to compete against the dinos, and used Dino-x to eventually get rid of them. And now I’m really happy and don’t have anything bothering me!

 

[Rilo]

I made a thread of peoples stories on how they beat GHA. You should check it out if you want some other perspectives on peoples methods on getting rid of GHA.

I did a 3 day black out followed by dosing hydrogen peroxide. It worked a bit on my 40B and no change in my 20L.

I plan on adding a sump with refugium where I'll add a macro algae and algae scrubber. Followed by dosing fluconazole to eradicate the gha and have the macro tackle the problem.

I skimmed this thread but have you tried putting rock in a small 10g tank and treating it there? just to see if you can eradicate the problem on a smaller scale and apply it to your large tank? So far fluconazole sounds like it decimates gha which is a bandaid solution while you find algae that will outcompete the GHA.

 

[KJoFan]

@Maya Ybry-Yagy I am pretty sure we have the exact same scenario going on. I have not tried all the solutions you have, but have read about them and suspect I'd get similar non-results like you. I posted in another GHA thread, which @brandon429 has responded to.

I guess my question in reading all this to @brandon429 would be, if we go through this hard work of manual removal/H2O2 use etc, is there an end to it? I'm pretty sure those of us with larger tanks (or even the smaller ones) don't fancy removing our rocks every few weeks to scrub them clean for eternity. Is a balance ever achieved? If rocks mature and start growing more coralline (mine grow zero coralline 18 months in) will the GHA eventually be eradicated or at least 99% so?

My other question would be, aren't we causing a mini cycle everytime we're pulling all or most of our rock to scrub it clean? That doesn't seem like the healthiest approach either.

I'm just seeking some clarification about the method and maybe it will help the OP as well.

 

[BeejReef]

I'm curious for an update as well.

How goes the battle @Maya Ybry-Yagy ?

 

[brandon429]

Kjo totally valid thought, the continuation. it does end or Id have left the hobby, last job I did before this one on GHA was about 7 years ago.

Coralline, and coral flesh, fill in the spots and exclude algae when we guide it ideally

my friend did let me have pics ill update soon

yes there are some gha tanks where the algae overtakes coralline, but not many. the vast majority show a pattern in the pics: algae adheres in the niches/cracks but never on top of coralline, its really powerful as an excluder.

name the last time someone posted a pic of a brain coral w algae in the mouth area

ergo, big brain corals/friends grown into place are natural excluders. by hand forcing out the invader, you take the ground you want for the deposition items you want vs what happened there unguided.

we really are doing what the dedicated and luckily matched grazers do, we're just doing it w harsh chem cheats since that luck and match are missing in any gha challenge tank.

 

[brandon429]

Beauty = this pic succession.

We have a detailed measured treatment ongoing which is purely water dosing, he'll clean sand up later this was to arrest the takeover while he's on travel business...h202 working nicely in increments. He doses, waits for dieoff, he or someone he elects to help manage does a water change and sucks out the dying portions, but this tank is large/can't take apart easily.

I prefer the surgical route always, but that's easier said than done on large tanks. so, this is water dosed

before / start

about a month into daily dosing and incremented export

imagine where it will be in another mo or two

Work and pics done/provided by our friend here

• Shluffer

 

[brandon429]

he pre tested his rocks at the 1:10 concentration before we did this tank work.

we already knew his rocks would respond, before we attempted on his whole tank/key detail....pre modeling before the big job starts. not surprised by the succession, it was already modeled in a paint bucket.

 

[KJoFan]

Kjo totally valid thought, the continuation. it does end or Id have left the hobby, last job I did before this one on GHA was about 7 years ago.

Coralline, and coral flesh, fill in the spots and exclude algae when we guide it ideally

my friend did let me have pics ill update soon

yes there are some gha tanks where the algae overtakes coralline, but not many. the vast majority show a pattern in the pics: algae adheres in the niches/cracks but never on top of coralline, its really powerful as an excluder.

name the last time someone posted a pic of a brain coral w algae in the mouth area

ergo, big brain corals/friends grown into place are natural excluders. by hand forcing out the invader, you take the ground you want for the deposition items you want vs what happened there unguided.

we really are doing what the dedicated and luckily matched grazers do, we're just doing it w harsh chem cheats since that luck and match are missing in any gha challenge tank.

I figured as much, but wanted to check before I start the undertaking. I picked up a bunch of hardier corals awhile back with the idea that more coral mass meant greater ability to outcompete the nuisances in the tank, as they will also take up some nutrients. Unfortunately, the corals haven't made it out of the frag tank yet and probably won't until I can get the rocks in the display spruced up. Also, while additional coral mass is a great idea...it's a slow go as we all know corals don't grow THAT fast. Thus, I suppose, until the time comes that coral and coralline can manage the job, our manual help is needed.

I do have a foxface rabbitfish I was hoping would lend a hand, but he must be a carnivore, he's not much into plant matter. Just my luck!

How about the point of mini cycling with all the fussing/stirring and removal/reintroduction of rock? Also, I have one piece of rock that I can't get out of my tank without removing my canopy, which is no small feat. Do I just leave the one and treat the rest?

And per your progression pics: what kind of concentration of H2O2 is he using, how much per gallon is being dosed?