Fox face mouth injury or disease?

[REEFREADYBSD]

Hey everyone,
I noticed my magnificent fox face swimming around with his stressed color more often. Examining him I noticed his mouth looks a little discolored or possibly injured. Tired taking a picture but he moves a lot so most of them are blurry. Wondering if anyone knows what this might be, and any recommendations for treatment.
Thanks

 

[Jay Hemdal]

REEFREADYBSD Welcome to the Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis Forum!

The #fishmedic team and other knowledgeable members of our community will do our best to help you resolve your questions. Please provide as much of the following as you are able:

• Brief description of the issue you are observing and answers to the following questions:
  • How long have you had the fish with the condition?
  • Did you quarantine with medication when you first acquired the fish? (If Yes, which medication?)
• Current water quality measurements
• Clear photos of the issue taken using WHITE light and/or a short video of any behaviors (post in your response or on YouTube).

If you can help us by providing as much of the above info as possible, it will make diagnosing and providing recommendations for treatment MUCH easier! The Fish Medic team will get back to you as quickly as possible. In the meantime, other members of our community may also share their experience with similar situations and advice that they may have regarding your situation.

You may also feel free to provide a more detailed description of the condition if you wish to share more info than the above list.

Additionally, these links may be useful while you await a response:

• CURRENT QT PROTOCOL LINK
• HOW TO ASK FOR DISEASE DIAGNOSIS HELP LINK

 

[vetteguy53081]

Looks more like injury from pecking on rocks or squabbling with occupant
Need brighter pics to clearly tell

 

[REEFREADYBSD]

Current water
Ph 7.4 (added a marine buffer to help this)
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 80ppm (added microbacter7 to help this)

 

[REEFREADYBSD]

There is a purple tang that he occasionally squabbles with. But that’s more with flashing his spine not really nipping.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

There is a purple tang that he occasionally squabbles with. But that’s more with flashing his spine not really nipping.

The foxface is showing night/stress coloration. How long have you had the fish? Was it recently moved using a net (which can damage its mouth)?

The low pH can be from high carbon dioxide, does the tank have good aeration (not just circulation)?
Is the foxface still eating?

Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

Current water
Ph 7.4 (added a marine buffer to help this)
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 80ppm (added microbacter7 to help this)

Please take a water sample to a trusted LFS that does not use API test kits and have them test your water and see what they come up with and to compare with yours as API which I suspect you have can be tricky to use. MB7 will help with nitrate bit very slowly. I suggest daily 2-3 gallon water changes daily. What filtration are you using ?
PH - Are you using RODI water or tap water for your tank ?

 

[REEFREADYBSD]

The foxface is showing night/stress coloration. How long have you had the fish? Was it recently moved using a net (which can damage its mouth)?

The low pH can be from high carbon dioxide, does the tank have good aeration (not just circulation)?
Is the foxface still eating?

Jay

I have had the fox face for about four months, it is still eating, but less than it usually does. It has not been moved since it was put in. The aeration is mostly from the return nozzles at the water surface. They could not be churning the water enough. In the sump the water doesn’t seem to have a lot of flow so the carbon dioxide could be the issue. I could add an air stone or wave maker to the tank.

 

[REEFREADYBSD]

Please take a water sample to a trusted LFS that does not use API test kits and have them test your water and see what they come up with and to compare with yours as API which I suspect you have can be tricky to use. MB7 will help with nitrate bit very slowly. I suggest daily 2-3 gallon water changes daily. What filtration are you using ?
PH - Are you using RODI water or tap water for your tank ?

I have a 35 gal sump with just filter floss and bio balls. I did use the API kit and I do use RODI water I have a filter for that.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I have had the fox face for about four months, it is still eating, but less than it usually does. It has not been moved since it was put in. The aeration is mostly from the return nozzles at the water surface. They could not be churning the water enough. In the sump the water doesn’t seem to have a lot of flow so the carbon dioxide could be the issue. I could add an air stone or wave maker to the tank.

Air stones would be best.

The mouth issue is unrelated to that of course.

 

[REEFREADYBSD]

Update the buffer seemed to fix my PH over night. Sitting at about 8.3 now. Nitrates are still high. The foxface however is now very dark and just sitting in a corner. I have an empty 40gal breeder I could get cycled fast with SmartStart complete, but idk if moving him is the best thing to do right now.

Semi related question should I have a QT always running and empty?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Update the buffer seemed to fix my PH over night. Sitting at about 8.3 now. Nitrates are still high. The foxface however is now very dark and just sitting in a corner. I have an empty 40gal breeder I could get cycled fast with SmartStart complete, but idk if moving him is the best thing to do right now.

Semi related question should I have a QT always running and empty?

You don't always need to keep a QT running, but I usually do. If you space is limited, or you just don't want the hassle of that, if your DT has a sump, you can add a couple of good air driven sponge filters to the sump. Then, if you need to set up a QT, you have them primed with beneficial bacteria and ready to go.

 

[REEFREADYBSD]

Update on this. Foxface is still showing stressed/night coloration most of the time although does shift to normal for a few hours a day. Behavior wise I am noticing he is bumping into stuff, missing attempts at tracking food, almost like he can’t see. Is it possible something made it blind all of the sudden? Thinking it’s dark all the time could account for the coloration.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Update on this. Foxface is still showing stressed/night coloration most of the time although does shift to normal for a few hours a day. Behavior wise I am noticing he is bumping into stuff, missing attempts at tracking food, almost like he can’t see. Is it possible something made it blind all of the sudden? Thinking it’s dark all the time could account for the coloration.

Blindness does happen with captive fish - tough to diagnose sometimes. One trick is to move around outside the tank (without actually touching the tank). If the fish doesn't react to your movement, it may be blind. Are the eyes cloudy at all? Any haze to them?

 

[REEFREADYBSD]

Hard to tell the difference between cloudiness and iridescence. At times it looks similar to a dog with cataracts sometimes it doesn’t. The hand close to the tank trick it does not react. This seemed to come on out of no where, could it be something I can treat? Or is my foxface just doomed to starve from not seeing food?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hard to tell the difference between cloudiness and iridescence. At times it looks similar to a dog with cataracts sometimes it doesn’t. The hand close to the tank trick it does not react. This seemed to come on out of no where, could it be something I can treat? Or is my foxface just doomed to starve from not seeing food?

Yeah - the iridescence in the eyes of some fish is normal, makes it difficult to see if it is normal or a disease.
Some people have managed to tong feed their blind fish so they get enough to eat, but it is a lot of work.

 

[REEFREADYBSD]

Yeah - the iridescence in the eyes of some fish is normal, makes it difficult to see if it is normal or a disease.
Some people have managed to tong feed their blind fish so they get enough to eat, but it is a lot of work.

Still messing up it’s mouth but no cloudiness

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Still messing up it’s mouth but no cloudiness

Duh - I didn’t put two and two together. If the fish is blind or mostly blind, of course it is going to show its nighttime coloration….

 

[REEFREADYBSD]

Duh - I didn’t put two and two together. If the fish is blind or mostly blind, of course it is going to show its nighttime coloration….

Got it into a QT seems to be swimming around a lot better. Treating the water with API Melafix just incase it is some parasite I can’t visibly see effecting the fish yet. Plus no rocks for it to wreck its mouth on. Going to try feeding with tongs.