First QT, Ich in Trophont Stage

[pluikens]

I woke up this morning and checked on my two tangs in QT. I am dosing Copper Power twice daily so besides just generally enjoying the fish, I needed to give them their 1.2 ml dose of Copper Power. I was surprised to see that both tangs (much more so on the Kole) were covered in white specks. I've never had a fish in this stage of ich so it was definitely a shock since they are doing so well in QT. So to calm my nerves...

1. Is this actually ich in the trophont stage?
2. Is this completely normal in QT? I am 8 doses out of a planned 14 doses of 1.2 ml of Copper Power. Tanks is dosed twice daily. I have an API test kit and plan to start testing now that I'm over halfway to my planned concentration (Tank has 15 gallons of water).
3. Do I just keep dosing as planned or alter the 1.2ml twice daily until I reach 2.0 ppm?
4. Anything, in particular, I can do for the fish at this time like keeping lights low, adjusting temperature, etc.?

Thanks in advance!

Specks all over Kole Tang


Specks on tail of Tomini Tang:

 

[ihavecrabs]

That might be velvet in addition to ich.

Either way, I would get to full therapeutic as soon as possible. Feed high quality foods and note if they are not eating (either way, copper is a must right now).

#reefsquad anything in addition? Dips?

 

[deedubz]

That looks more like velvet to me. You'll want to increase the ramping up of copper to get it therapeutic asap.

Here's the protocol for velvet. Given how quickly the kole tang is progressing you'll want to look over post 2.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/

 

[pluikens]

Thanks for the responses. I have both the Tomini and Kole in the same QT tank. Should I begin velvet protocol for both fish? After the freshwater dip and chemical baths, can the tangs go back in my QT if I've raised copper to therapeutic level? What cleansing should be done of the QT tank they are in now if I want to use that tank for the copper treatment after freshwater dip and chemical bath?

 

[ihavecrabs]

Thanks for the responses. I have both the Tomini and Kole in the same QT tank. Should I begin velvet protocol for both fish? After the freshwater dip and chemical baths, can the tangs go back in my QT if I've raised copper to therapeutic level? What cleansing should be done of the QT tank they are in now if I want to use that tank for the copper treatment after freshwater dip and chemical bath?

Definitely both.

And yes, once you are at therapeutic level, no reason they can't go back in.

 

[deedubz]

Thanks for the responses. I have both the Tomini and Kole in the same QT tank. Should I begin velvet protocol for both fish? After the freshwater dip and chemical baths, can the tangs go back in my QT if I've raised copper to therapeutic level? What cleansing should be done of the QT tank they are in now if I want to use that tank for the copper treatment after freshwater dip and chemical bath?

Yes, if they've been together you'll want to treat both.

In an ideal world, you'd transfer them to a sterile qt. You could use biospira to quick cycle it. If this isn't an option then I'd at least get copper to therapeutic in their current qt. It isn't going to do anything for the parasites on the fish (that's where the fw dip and chemical baths come in) but hopefully it'll still eradicate any freeswimmers and protect them from future attacks.

If you feel you can clean the tank and have it up to temp and ready for the fish you could give that a shot. Unfortunately drying of the equipment is just as important as the cleansing, but in a pinch anything should help

 

[pluikens]

The freshwater dip and chemical baths can be done in any container as long as the water is to temp, right? The acriflavine and formalin are just freshly mixed saltwater brought to temp with the chemical added as stated on the bottle?

 

[deedubz]

Correct. Mix and then heat the water. You'll definitely want to use airstones though! Aeration is a must. Given an option, I'd do acriflavine over formalin.. That stuff is so nasty. Acriflavine-ms and Ruby Reed Rally are both acriflavine based, but @Big G swears by RRR.

Here's @Humblefish acriflavine guide
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/acriflavine.282887/

 

[pluikens]

Just got home from work and the Kole looks like the trophonts have dropped off as there are no more spots on the fish. Did they really drop off that fast? This is just three hours after I took the picture above. Am I still treating for velvet as this would provide further evidence that I'm dealing with velvet rather than ich?

 

[pluikens]

@dwwataz Based on the recent photo above, stay on the velvet treatment protocol? I have fresh RODI water aerating and coming to temp.

 

[deedubz]

@dwwataz Based on the recent photo above, stay on the velvet treatment protocol? I have fresh RODI water aerating and coming to temp.

Yes, I'd definitely still proceed. While I'm still convinced this is velvet, treatment for ich would be the same.

 

[PGT253]

I second velvet. Ich wont drop that fast.

 

[HotRocks]

Definitely velvet.

You've gotten great advice above. My only recommendation is to ramp the copper up with the fish in the QT as you dose. You will want to continue your same dosing structure, if you have six doses left, go with 3 more today and 3 tomorrow.

Disclaimer on coppersafe. The API kit is hard to read accurately. You may reach your desired level before your final dose. We have recently found the concentration if dosed as instructed to vary quite a bit from bottle to bottle. Anywhere from 2.3ppm to 3.0ppm. Just be mindful of that

 

[pluikens]

I'm using copper power so dosing should be accurate, right? I also have the API test kit I'll use going in from today. I'm currently at 11/14 doses in the tank (two more than scheduled) so I'll stop and do the rest tomorrow based on API test results. I have kanaplex on hand so should I add that to qt with copper as directed on the bottle? Freshwater and chemical dip/bath still scheduled for early this afternoon. Thanks all!

 

[Brew12]

Just got home from work and the Kole looks like the trophonts have dropped off as there are no more spots on the fish. Did they really drop off that fast? This is just three hours after I took the picture above. Am I still treating for velvet as this would provide further evidence that I'm dealing with velvet rather than ich?
View attachment 750196

Just so you know, what you are seeing on the fish isn't the trophont. It is mucus from the fish responding to the injury caused by the trophont. The largest Cryptocaryon Irritans trophont I've read of is still only 0.5mm by 0.3mm. Most of them are much smaller than 0.1mm and not readily visible with the naked eye.
With this being Amyloodinium Ocellatum (Marine Velvet) the trophonts are much smaller and are not visible with the naked eye.

Keep this in mind as you plan your course of action and observe the fish. No spots does not mean that the parasite has dropped off or is gone. Having spots does not mean the fish is still infected. Treat it like it is... just one visible symptom among many that tells us the overall health of the fish.

 

[HotRocks]

I'm using copper power so dosing should be accurate, right? I also have the API test kit I'll use going in from today. I'm currently at 11/14 doses in the tank (two more than scheduled) so I'll stop and do the rest tomorrow based on API test results. I have kanaplex on hand so should I add that to qt with copper as directed on the bottle? Freshwater and chemical dip/bath still scheduled for early this afternoon. Thanks all!

Yes sorry I guess I can't read. IME copper power is spot on. Testing is still a MUST to be sure. Are you adjusting the level? Or just going for 2.5ppm?

 

[AcanthurusRex]

I found HotRocks copper power dosing stickie to be very accurate. I would strongly suggest finding a Hanna Checker.

 

[pluikens]

My schedule was to get to 2.0 ppm over 7 days dosing twice a day. Should I be aiming for 2.5 ppm? Also, I was only able to get Quick Ich-X from Aquarium Solutions. Bottle says less than 22% formaldehyde. Any way I can make this into a bath? Should I just do the freshwater dip and then back to qt with copper and kanaplex?

 

[HotRocks]

My schedule was to get to 2.0 ppm over 7 days dosing twice a day. Should I be aiming for 2.5 ppm? Also, I was only able to get Quick Ich-X from Aquarium Solutions. Bottle says less than 22% formaldehyde. Any way I can make this into a bath? Should I just do the freshwater dip and then back to qt with copper and kanaplex?View attachment 750216

2.0ppm is the perfect number since you are using visual test methods IMO. 2.5ppm may only be necessary in rare cases that a copper resistant strain of parasite is encountered.

You can do:
1. 5min FW Dip
2. Formalin bath
3. Place fish back in copper QT and finish ramp up.

Keep the Kanaplex close. I wouldn't dose it unless you see an infection form. Anytime you can avoid mixing meds you are better off. Mixing can cause problems like bacterial blooms etc.

Here is @Humblefish recommendations for the use of formalin. BE CAREFUL!

Formalin - Do the bath for 30-60 minutes max, but remove the fish immediately at the first sign of distress. Aerate heavily both before & during the bath, and temperature control the water. The following products contain formalin: Formalin-MS, Quick Cure, Aquarium Solutions Ich-X, Kordon Rid-Ich Plus. Use protection (rubber gloves, face mask, eye protection, etc.) whenever handling formalin as it is a known carcinogen! However, you can add Methylene Blue to the formalin bath (1 capful per 2-3 gallons of bath water

 

[pluikens]

Thanks @HotRocks @Humblefish Do you have a recommended bath for the Formalin bath like the "1 teaspoon per 5 gallons of water" you state for the acriflavine? The bottle suggests "3 drops of Quick Ich-X® per 2 gallons of aquarium water".