Blue Hippo Tang (Dory) Ich? Velvet? Help!

[daniel_mourra]

Dusty appearance is INCREASING… (in a matter of hours…) this wasnt here 5 hours ago… specially on left side… close to the tail were the black stripe meets the yellow tail… just got better pics… and video. Specially seen in the video…. I really hope this isnt Velvet… she also seems to be Scratching her tail specifically…. She hits her tail to the rock (like fighting the rock) (many tailstrikes to the rock)….

@Jay Hemdal

 

[daniel_mourra]

@Jay Hemdal Update… my local expert friend recomended a 5 min freshwater dip. We declorinated the water, matched ph and Temp and did the dip. Also took a better video and pics taking advantage of the proximity of the fish… doesnt look like velvet right? She did NOT drop anything in the 5 min FW dip… so maybe even not flukes….

put my phone underwater to get better video:
Please see this video: https://1drv.ms/v/s!Amx1-gDqJ6fbguQ8gUDUpap-enDs4g

 

[jmichaelh7]

Why such short duration 2 weeks?

I’d run minimum 30 days and restart the clock if therapeutic levels drop below even once

 

[Aluco]

Why such short duration 2 weeks?

I’d run minimum 30 days and restart the clock if therapeutic levels drop below even once

It's basically a combination of ttm and copper. With 2 weeks you treat any active disease and free swimmers and with the transfer you move the fish out and away from a tank which contains the next generation of parasite. Lots of caution is needed, at least 10ft away, no cross contamination and no reusing equipment between tanks etc. This is followed up with a 2 week minimum observation period to make sure no disease pops back up. If you can monitor and administer the meds as well as keep water quality both prestine and well aerated its hypothetically possible to have success with this. Not a forum which supports this method, which come to think of it is kind of weird considering pre qt'd vendors supported by this site pull their fish from copper after 2 weeks too..

 

[Aluco]

@Jay Hemdal Update… my local expert friend recomended a 5 min freshwater dip. We declorinated the water, matched ph and Temp and did the dip. Also took a better video and pics taking advantage of the proximity of the fish… doesnt look like velvet right? She did NOT drop anything in the 5 min FW dip… so maybe even not flukes….

put my phone underwater to get better video:
Please see this video: https://1drv.ms/v/s!Amx1-gDqJ6fbguQ8gUDUpap-enDs4g

View attachment 3122551

Sorry can't sleep so reading forum stuff. On the picture what is the spot toward the back, I'll circle it. If it's a wound, probably needs antibiotics. If it's just part of the discolouration, then ok..

Nice fish BTW, good thickness to him. If it were me and fish is eating and breathing well I would give it a nice observation tank, low stress, boost that immune system with good foods and vitamins and make sure that water stays very clean. Is the fish still itching? Imo it doesn't look like an external parasite, if anything maybe the Starr of hlle or something bacterial. I'm sure Jay and vette have you more than covered but like I said, can't sleep..

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal Update… my local expert friend recomended a 5 min freshwater dip. We declorinated the water, matched ph and Temp and did the dip. Also took a better video and pics taking advantage of the proximity of the fish… doesnt look like velvet right? She did NOT drop anything in the 5 min FW dip… so maybe even not flukes….

put my phone underwater to get better video:
Please see this video: https://1drv.ms/v/s!Amx1-gDqJ6fbguQ8gUDUpap-enDs4g

View attachment 3122551

@Jay Hemdal Update… my local expert friend recomended a 5 min freshwater dip. We declorinated the water, matched ph and Temp and did the dip. Also took a better video and pics taking advantage of the proximity of the fish… doesnt look like velvet right? She did NOT drop anything in the 5 min FW dip… so maybe even not flukes….

put my phone underwater to get better video:
Please see this video: https://1drv.ms/v/s!Amx1-gDqJ6fbguQ8gUDUpap-enDs4g

View attachment 3122551

FW dips will only show one species of flukes, Neobenedenia. the other flukes are too small to see without a microscope, and then, after a dip, they look like little balls of mucus,. so are difficult to ID.

This tail lesion developed that much in 4 hours? Was this after the dip?

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Ok… i just dosed 2 teaspoons of PraziPro for the 45 gallons (1 teaspoon per 20 Gal of net water)… according to the instructions one dosage should be enough…. But it also seays repeat as necesary no more than once every 3 days…

i assume “necesary” would mean the hepatus tang is still scratching? Or whats the next step?

Prazipro is one of the few medications that I advise people to use contrary to label instructions. In order to battle possible egg laying flukes, you need to spread the dose out to catch any new flukes that hatch from eggs after the first treatment (prazi doesn't kill the eggs). So - with good aeration, dose it once. Then, after 8 days, change 25% of the water and dose it a second time. If you need to do a water change sooner, that's fine, but try not to change the water in the first 24 hours after a dose.

Jay

 

[daniel_mourra]

FW dips will only show one species of flukes, Neobenedenia. the other flukes are too small to see without a microscope, and then, after a dip, they look like little balls of mucus,. so are difficult to ID.

This tail lesion developed that much in 4 hours? Was this after the dip?

Jay

Hello Jay…

were you able to see the video while the fish was in the FW dip? The situation can be seen alot more clearly as i put the phone under water. This tail lesion was there BEFORE the dip and she is til today still eatinng, alive and STILL scratching…..

any idea what might this be? Are we still considering velvet or copper at this point?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hello Jay…

were you able to see the video while the fish was in the FW dip? The situation can be seen alot more clearly as i put the phone under water. This tail lesion was there BEFORE the dip and she is til today still eatinng, alive and STILL scratching…..

any idea what might this be? Are we still considering velvet or copper at this point?

I just saw it now, I thought it was just another still pic.

I see less evidence of velvet. Localized mucus like that is often bacterial - even flukes would be more randomly spread out and not isolated in one area like that.

Jay

 

[daniel_mourra]

I just saw it now, I thought it was just another still pic.

I see less evidence of velvet. Localized mucus like that is often bacterial - even flukes would be more randomly spread out and not isolated in one area like that.

Jay

I understand.. so if its not flukes or velvet… basically Prazi will not do anything for the bacterial infection? Should i remove prazi with carbon and switch to kannaplex?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I understand.. so if its not flukes or velvet… basically Prazi will not do anything for the bacterial infection? Should i remove prazi with carbon and switch to kannaplex?

No, leave the prazi in, just because the lesion isn’t caused by flukes doesn’t mean the fish doesn’t have flukes.
Kanaplex is one option. I often use Neoplex. Choosing an antibiotic is a total guess though….
Jay

 

[daniel_mourra]

No, leave the prazi in, just because the lesion isn’t caused by flukes doesn’t mean the fish doesn’t have flukes.
Kanaplex is one option. I often use Neoplex. Choosing an antibiotic is a total guess though….
Jay

For antibiotic i o ly have kannaplex… dont have neoplex and shipping it from the US takes about 30 days…

I also have:
Metroplex
Paraguard
Nitrofurazone
Melafix (which ive heard sucks )

can i dose any of these WITH prazi? Or do i have to wait until prazi is done 2 doses 8 days apart?

or will this kind of situation just cure on its own? She is scratching alot..

 

[Jay Hemdal]

For antibiotic i o ly have kannaplex… dont have neoplex and shipping it from the US takes about 30 days…

I also have:
Metroplex
Paraguard
Nitrofurazone
Melafix (which ive heard sucks )

can i dose any of these WITH prazi? Or do i have to wait until prazi is done 2 doses 8 days apart?

or will this kind of situation just cure on its own? She is scratching alot..

Mixing medications always has some risk to it, lots of different possible combinations, and I haven't tried them all (grin).

Don't wait that long for the Neoplex, I would go with either the Kanaplex or the Nitrofurazone. I think you should dose it concurrent with the prazi, since the fish seems to be getting worse.

Jay

 

[daniel_mourra]

Got it! Any preference by experience for either Nitrofurazone or kanaplex? Which has given you better results? At what dosage?

 

[daniel_mourra]

UPDATE:

Day 5 of 7 of the 1dose of Prazi Pro
Dose 2 of Kannaplex (Dosing every 2 days up to 3 doses)

had to isolate the blue hippo tang as she was fighting alot with the bicolor angel and adding to the stress…

she STILL has the powdery appearance in her skin and she sis still scratching… looks to be less scratching but the SAME amount of powdery spots…

scopas tang in the same isolation box has 5-8 cloudy white spots that dont seem to be ich. They come and go every 2-3 days… but they seem cloudier than what ich tipically looks like

Any suggestions? Could this be Brookynella? Is there anything else apart from ich, velvet or lymph that can cause dusty white stuff? Or should I keep waiting for the prazi pro and kannaplex to do its thing?

please see attached pictures and specially this video: https://1drv.ms/v/s!Amx1-gDqJ6fbguVVEKpvmhpl7XqZSg

 

[Jay Hemdal]

UPDATE:

Day 5 of 7 of the 1dose of Prazi Pro
Dose 2 of Kannaplex (Dosing every 2 days up to 3 doses)

had to isolate the blue hippo tang as she was fighting alot with the bicolor angel and adding to the stress…

she STILL has the powdery appearance in her skin and she sis still scratching… looks to be less scratching but the SAME amount of powdery spots…

scopas tang in the same isolation box has 5-8 cloudy white spots that dont seem to be ich. They come and go every 2-3 days… but they seem cloudier than what ich tipically looks like

Any suggestions? Could this be Brookynella? Is there anything else apart from ich, velvet or lymph that can cause dusty white stuff? Or should I keep waiting for the prazi pro and kannaplex to do its thing?

please see attached pictures and specially this video: https://1drv.ms/v/s!Amx1-gDqJ6fbguVVEKpvmhpl7XqZSg

View attachment 3127731 View attachment 3127732 View attachment 3127733 View attachment 3127734 View attachment 3127736 View attachment 3127737

As the hepatus tangs moves, I can clearly see distinct spots. These look like ich trophonts to me.

Jay

 

[daniel_mourra]

As the hepatus tangs moves, I can clearly see distinct spots. These look like ich trophonts to me.

Jay

OK. So in this case... i Have Prazi (Thinking first it was flukes), Kannaplex (thinking aftrwards it was some sort of bacteria or fungus) but now we are pointing to ich....

In this case what would be the best course of action to start the 30 day copper treatment considering I have 2 meds in the water already?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

OK. So in this case... i Have Prazi (Thinking first it was flukes), Kannaplex (thinking aftrwards it was some sort of bacteria or fungus) but now we are pointing to ich....

In this case what would be the best course of action to start the 30 day copper treatment considering I have 2 meds in the water already?

Well, I’m not 100% sure it is ich, videos a pics are just not the same as seeing the fish in person or being able to make a skin scrape, but the two best treatments for ich are copper or hyposalinity . Both treatments take about 30 days. Here is my post on hypo if you want to read up on that:

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2021 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[daniel_mourra]

Hello @Jay Hemdal

I was about to start copper treatment in case this is ich… the tang is still scratching but NO OTHER FISH seems to be afected. I took more pictures and discovered that the spots dont look like ich circles…. (IMO)
Upon further inspection and ZOOOMING i can appreciate that the points seem more like white mucus spots, not round defined spots like ich…. I just have a feeling this is not ich and its definitley not velvet as the condition has NOT spread to other fish nor has it killed any fish…

i do understand judging bu the picture is hard but could you help me with a second glance? My LFS expert says its ich, another one says it doesnt look like ich… i am torn in the middle….

pleas take a look at the pics specially the zoomed ones in the tail area….. this is day 7 of prazipro and dose 3 of kannaplex was administered today a couple of hours ago….

i have copper power and a hanna checker ready but i REALLY dont want to misfire and stress them all …. Or worse… I REALLY DONT WANT TO REINTRODUCE ICH to my MAIN DT after a horrible and long 11 week fallow period….

bear in mind: this same fish was 14 days in copper power 2.5ppm upon arrival and showed NO signs of ANYTHING…. After that she was 3 aditional weeks in the holding tank and didnt display ANY PROBLEM… total of 5 weeks no signs of ich… from any fish… NO NEW INTRODUCTIONS of anything, just water changes….

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hello @Jay Hemdal

I was about to start copper treatment in case this is ich… the tang is still scratching but NO OTHER FISH seems to be afected. I took more pictures and discovered that the spots dont look like ich circles…. (IMO)
Upon further inspection and ZOOOMING i can appreciate that the points seem more like white mucus spots, not round defined spots like ich…. I just have a feeling this is not ich and its definitley not velvet as the condition has NOT spread to other fish nor has it killed any fish…

i do understand judging bu the picture is hard but could you help me with a second glance? My LFS expert says its ich, another one says it doesnt look like ich… i am torn in the middle….

pleas take a look at the pics specially the zoomed ones in the tail area….. this is day 7 of prazipro and dose 3 of kannaplex was administered today a couple of hours ago….

i have copper power and a hanna checker ready but i REALLY dont want to misfire and stress them all …. Or worse… I REALLY DONT WANT TO REINTRODUCE ICH to my MAIN DT after a horrible and long 11 week fallow period….

bear in mind: this same fish was 14 days in copper power 2.5ppm upon arrival and showed NO signs of ANYTHING…. After that she was 3 aditional weeks in the holding tank and didnt display ANY PROBLEM… total of 5 weeks no signs of ich… from any fish… NO NEW INTRODUCTIONS of anything, just water changes….

View attachment 3129416 View attachment 3129417 View attachment 3129418 View attachment 3129419

The trouble is, "stale ich" gets all mucusy looking and then at that point, it really cannot be told apart from mucus plugs. A skin scrape and a look under a microscope would tell you if it is ich, but that takes experience to do safely...

From the pictures, sorry, but I'm not able to tell you definitely which it is - and then, to make matters worse, it is pretty common to see ich mixed in with mucus plugs (ugh!).

At the very least, you should wait and see if the spots get more numerous, and change location, then it is ich and you need to treat. If the spots gradually just go away, then it is mucus.

Jay