Dealing with Ich/Velvet

[Xexonx]

So I have been forced to pull my fish out of my reef and put them into QT due an outbreak of what appears to be Velvet........ Came on way to fast to be Ich as I understand it...

So guess it's time for my tank to go Fallow for 72 days....

From what I understand though, Ich and Velvet can be transmitted via adding new corals, and that there isn't a dip that can make sure the corals are clean enough to be added without reinfecting my DT... So is the practice that new coral frags go into QT for a period of 72 days aswell to insure no uglies are on them??? I know most people advocate Ich eradication as opposed to management, but how to you keep your tank sterile if you need to quarantine everything for around 3 months to insure the life cycle has played out???

 

[Doctorgori]

To answer your questions I can only speak for myself….
I got one fishless tank going fallow. I thought the only way to be 100% sure for all strains was 72 days. So Im trying both: 72 day fallow period AND in tank management….
I am continually adding corals and “possibly” breaking protocol, but I suspect pre-dipping corals and no fish should be good….Again, I am possibly breaking so called protocol by adding corals and inverts during the fallow period

I’ve seen some stuff on Humblefish about splash distance, I dunno…I got 4 tanks, one keeps getting Ich while the others don’t. I cant swear my equipment protocols are airtight so can’t speak on possible avenues of transmitting infection….

I am currently dealing with a outbreak now and having promising results on a Idol and tang using slow flow UV, Aquamedic * H2O2 …Humblefishes site is useful

 

[Xexonx]

I’ve seen some stuff on Humblefish about splash distance, I dunno…I got 4 tanks, one keeps getting Ich while the others don’t. I cant swear my equipment protocols are airtight so can’t speak on possible avenues of transmitting infection….

I am currently dealing with a outbreak now and having promising results on a Idol and tang using slow flow UV, Aquamedic * H2O2 …Humblefishes site is useful

From what I can see one can never have a completely sterile tank, it seems like bashing your head against the wall, I am currently medicating for velvet, and maintaining a second coral frag tank seems excessive if you want to quarantine corals for 2 months to make sure no ich or velvet gets in.....

I dunno, it's frustrating to get started in this hobbie, seems like more money is going down the drain on medications and lost live stock than anything else...

 

[Doctorgori]

I’m no expert but I can claim a very long sample size and experience battling ich . I’ve gone decades between outbreaks only to have it show up outta nowhere….

My take is freshwater dips and a VERY good diet seems just as effective as anything else. This seems true especially for tangs and other repeat offenders.

Eitherway, all my tanks are being fitted with Lifegard UV, coincidentally I’m in the process as I type

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So I have been forced to pull my fish out of my reef and put them into QT due an outbreak of what appears to be Velvet........ Came on way to fast to be Ich as I understand it...

So guess it's time for my tank to go Fallow for 72 days....

From what I understand though, Ich and Velvet can be transmitted via adding new corals, and that there isn't a dip that can make sure the corals are clean enough to be added without reinfecting my DT... So is the practice that new coral frags go into QT for a period of 72 days aswell to insure no uglies are on them??? I know most people advocate Ich eradication as opposed to management, but how to you keep your tank sterile if you need to quarantine everything for around 3 months to insure the life cycle has played out???

Velvet and ich are different in that regard. The "76 days" for ich came from a paper published many years ago where the researcher found that the resting stage (tomonts) could remain viable that long in a cool, bacteria free petri dish. That doesn't extrapolate well to the real worlds, but 76 days appears to be the limit for ich. Velvet seems to have a shorter resting stage, but this has only been measured at low temperatures - 4 months at 59 F. Noga says 20 days reduces,. but does not eliminate the risk and Bower says the dinospores (swimmers) can live for 6 days.

I generally isolate corals for 30 days when they are coming from a "healthy" tanks and 45+ days if they are coming from a tank with an active infection.

Here is an article I wrote on biosecurity:

Biosecurity

A short introduction to aquarium biosecurity

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[Xexonx]

I’ve seen some stuff on Humblefish about splash distance, I dunno…I got 4 tanks, one keeps getting Ich while the others don’t. I cant swear my equipment protocols are airtight so can’t speak on possible avenues of transmitting infection….

I am currently dealing with a outbreak now and having promising results on a Idol and tang using slow flow UV, Aquamedic * H2O2 …Humblefishes site is useful

From what I can see one can never have a completely sterile tank, it seems like bashing your head against the wall, I am currently medicating for velvet, and maintaining a second coral frag tank seems excessive if you want to quarantine corals for 2 months to make sure no ich or velvet gets in.....

I dunno, it's frustrating to get started in this hobbie, seems like more money is going down the drain on medications and lost live stock than anything else...

Velvet and ich are different in that regard. The "76 days" for ich came from a paper published many years ago where the researcher found that the resting stage (tomonts) could remain viable that long in a cool, bacteria free petri dish. That doesn't extrapolate well to the real worlds, but 76 days appears to be the limit for ich. Velvet seems to have a shorter resting stage, but this has only been measured at low temperatures - 4 months at 59 F. Noga says 20 days reduces,. but does not eliminate the risk and Bower says the dinospores (swimmers) can live for 6 days.

I generally isolate corals for 30 days when they are coming from a "healthy" tanks and 45+ days if they are coming from a tank with an active infection.

Here is an article I wrote on biosecurity:

Biosecurity

A short introduction to aquarium biosecurity

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

That is very interesting thanks...... I think my concern goes more towards, if I add a piece of coral, then I just start the entire cycle all over again......

 

[vetteguy53081]

So I have been forced to pull my fish out of my reef and put them into QT due an outbreak of what appears to be Velvet........ Came on way to fast to be Ich as I understand it...

So guess it's time for my tank to go Fallow for 72 days....

From what I understand though, Ich and Velvet can be transmitted via adding new corals, and that there isn't a dip that can make sure the corals are clean enough to be added without reinfecting my DT... So is the practice that new coral frags go into QT for a period of 72 days aswell to insure no uglies are on them??? I know most people advocate Ich eradication as opposed to management, but how to you keep your tank sterile if you need to quarantine everything for around 3 months to insure the life cycle has played out???

Can you post pics and even video of the fish under white light for confirmation?
Jay is correct on treatment durations especially with velvet being a flagellate. While you can move coral to a sterile environment, they can remain as fish are the hosts and not coral and with a 45-60 fallow, they have no fish to host on and will die off. They reach dino spore stage in about 5-7 days and then will start to die off when there is no host.

 

[nathanb25]

Well, let me just say clorequin phosphate IS NOT REEF SAFE!! If anyone argues that, I’m here to say you’re 100% wrong. Just dosed it for my fish and it totally wiped out all my sos coral, lps, and most of my snail. Turned my water nasty, and the ich is gone. So, it worked really fast, but killed everything within 8 hours of dosing. It was weird too, two of my acros lost their color, almost like bleaching, but it didn’t look like a flesh loos. With loss of flesh the polyps go too, they didn’t hear. Very confused… but anyway, be careful with the stuff. It’s amazing for ich, but might as well qt the fish and use copper.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Well, let me just say clorequin phosphate IS NOT REEF SAFE!! If anyone argues that, I’m here to say you’re 100% wrong. Just dosed it for my fish and it totally wiped out all my sos coral, lps, and most of my snail. Turned my water nasty, and the ich is gone. So, it worked really fast, but killed everything within 8 hours of dosing. It was weird too, two of my acros lost their color, almost like bleaching, but it didn’t look like a flesh loos. With loss of flesh the polyps go too, they didn’t hear. Very confused… but anyway, be careful with the stuff. It’s amazing for ich, but might as well qt the fish and use copper.

Correct, chloroquine is in NO WAY reef safe! It is a general “antibiotic” in the general sense, i.e., it kills algae, parasites, invertebrates and bacteria!

Here is my article about using it:

Aquarium Fish: Chloroquine: A “New” Drug for Treating Fish Diseases

While not a panacea or miracle drug, chloroquine is experiencing resurgence in popularity for use in fish-only aquariums and quarantine systems to treat a variety of problems ranging from Cryptocaryon to Aiptasia anemone infestations.

reefs.com

I didn't see any mention of chloroquine in this thread though.....

Jay

 

[nathanb25]

Yeah, I kept seeing everyone say it’s reef safe, even folks that have done this 30 years. But honestly, I don’t think many people have experience using it. They just say what they have heard. I know now for sure it isn’t safe for coral. However, I did read an article from a biologist saying dosing cp in small doses over time can prevent ich without effecting coral.

 

[nathanb25]

Correct, chloroquine is in NO WAY reef safe! It is a general “antibiotic” in the general sense, i.e., it kills algae, parasites, invertebrates and bacteria!

Here is my article about using it:

Aquarium Fish: Chloroquine: A “New” Drug for Treating Fish Diseases

While not a panacea or miracle drug, chloroquine is experiencing resurgence in popularity for use in fish-only aquariums and quarantine systems to treat a variety of problems ranging from Cryptocaryon to Aiptasia anemone infestations.

reefs.com

I didn't see any mention of chloroquine in this thread though.....

Jay

There wasn’t one, I’m just warning people becasue it’s is getting popular again but it’s not well known by most people. A LOT of information and people will say you can use it in a reef tank. When that’s just inaccurate information.

 

[Bob2bob]

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