First clownfish...brook or bacterial?

[adam.scho]

Hi all, this is my first post here (been waiting to make a build post). I'm looking for some help with a possible diagnosis.

My first saltwater tank has been cycled for a little over a month now. Last weekend I added my first two clownfish. They are pretty small but one is bigger than the other. They both looked healthy under white light at my LFS. They are from separate tanks but seem to have paired up. I've noticed a little aggression from the bigger one, but I expected a little bit. Now to my problems...

Smaller Fish

• Noticed symptoms a couple days after adding:
  • White puffy lips
  • Cloudy eyes
• Less active but eats well. Seems to like catching pods.
• Mouth stays open most of the time
• Above average (?) breathing rate
• Does get bullied a little
• Did a freshwater dip yesterday, no flukes.

Bigger Fish

• White film behind one fin:
  • Noticed shortly after adding. Only easy to see under blue light
  • Might have spread a little over a week? Not spreading fast at least.
• Noticed some shaking and flicking in the water today. Mostly near the smaller one.
• Noticed faster breathing today
• Much more active and eats pellets and frozen food ferociously
• Cant catch for a freshwater dip

Water Parameters

• Ammonia: 0 ppm
• Nitrite: 0 ppm
• Nitrate: <1 ppm barely detectable
• Ph: 8.0
• Phosphate 0.02 ppm

I am new to saltwater but have some experience with freshwater diseases. No, I am not using a quarantine because they were the first fish but I will likely move these two to a hospital tank.

For the smaller one, I was thinking some sort of bacterial infection. I am also concerned that the film on the bigger one is Brook but would like a second opinion.

For treatment, I will be moving them into a 10g hospital tank. I need some advice on possible medications...or should I just wait and see how the symptoms develop? I've made the mistake in freshwater of treating too soon and missing the mark.

I'm thinking of some combination of Copper and General Cure.

And yes, I will be putting new fish in a QT straight away from now on.

Picture doesn't make it super clear but is a good average of what it looks like under blue vs white light. Looks worse under full blue.


Thanks in advance,
Adam

 

[MnFish1]

Without more symptoms - both look fine to me. A little area behind a fin - is not brook. A bacterial infection is possible - and thanks for the pictures. How is breathing, eating , other behavior

 

[MnFish1]

PS - did you QT the fish?

 

[Sebastiancrab]

If you are not sure, it won't hurt to treat them with Ruby Reef Rally Pro. It is a broad based treatment medicine. Make sure you give them some PVC pipes to hide in as well as run an airstone.

 

[adam.scho]

Here is a video where the smaller one's mouth area is more visible. Its hard to capture under white light but his lips are pale and puffy. Mouth is open. Eyes are quite cloudy. Hard to tell breathing rate because the mouth is always open but probably a little faster than normal.

Good to know about the Brook. The bigger one with the spot behind the fin looks better and is more active so I'll hold off on treating for Brook. Breathing is pretty quick for this one. That's when I started to get concerned about Brook.

Eating is good for both of them. The larger one with the spot behind the fin is more eager though.

No, I did not QT but I should have. Lesson learned. Even if they come turn out to be healthy, its not worth the stress...

 

[threebuoys]

You indicated breathing may be high. Try counting the number of breaths in 10 or 15 seconds and extrapolate to a minute. High breath rate can be an early indicator of velvet but really too early to jump to that
conclusion.

 

[threebuoys]

Also, without obvious symptoms suggesting a dip, no value to the additional stress a fresh water dip causes.

 

[Lavey29]

Unfortunately clowns are well known for brook. Which is also known as clownfish disease. If they were not medicated in Qt prior to your DT you may have opened the door to a problem. I know from past similar experience. Get a QT tank set up for them.

 

[adam.scho]

You indicated breathing may be high. Try counting the number of breaths in 10 or 15 seconds and extrapolate to a minute. High breath rate can be an early indicator of velvet but really too early to jump to that
conclusion.

It's really hard to count because her (?) mouth is so small and she is so active. I'd say I see her mouth open and close ~2 times per second.

 

[adam.scho]

I also just noticed the white film behind the other fin on the larger one so it's definitely spreading. Doesn't seem like the skin is "falling off". It's more of a film in the shape of a cutout around where the fin makes contact with the side of the body.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi all, this is my first post here (been waiting to make a build post). I'm looking for some help with a possible diagnosis.

My first saltwater tank has been cycled for a little over a month now. Last weekend I added my first two clownfish. They are pretty small but one is bigger than the other. They both looked healthy under white light at my LFS. They are from separate tanks but seem to have paired up. I've noticed a little aggression from the bigger one, but I expected a little bit. Now to my problems...

Smaller Fish

• Noticed symptoms a couple days after adding:
  • White puffy lips
  • Cloudy eyes
• Less active but eats well. Seems to like catching pods.
• Mouth stays open most of the time
• Above average (?) breathing rate
• Does get bullied a little
• Did a freshwater dip yesterday, no flukes.

Bigger Fish

• White film behind one fin:
  • Noticed shortly after adding. Only easy to see under blue light
  • Might have spread a little over a week? Not spreading fast at least.
• Noticed some shaking and flicking in the water today. Mostly near the smaller one.
• Noticed faster breathing today
• Much more active and eats pellets and frozen food ferociously
• Cant catch for a freshwater dip

Water Parameters

• Ammonia: 0 ppm
• Nitrite: 0 ppm
• Nitrate: <1 ppm barely detectable
• Ph: 8.0
• Phosphate 0.02 ppm

I am new to saltwater but have some experience with freshwater diseases. No, I am not using a quarantine because they were the first fish but I will likely move these two to a hospital tank.

For the smaller one, I was thinking some sort of bacterial infection. I am also concerned that the film on the bigger one is Brook but would like a second opinion.

For treatment, I will be moving them into a 10g hospital tank. I need some advice on possible medications...or should I just wait and see how the symptoms develop? I've made the mistake in freshwater of treating too soon and missing the mark.

I'm thinking of some combination of Copper and General Cure.

And yes, I will be putting new fish in a QT straight away from now on.

Picture doesn't make it super clear but is a good average of what it looks like under blue vs white light. Looks worse under full blue.


Thanks in advance,
Adam

I see secondary bacterial and may be related to brook for which I see mucus buildup along back and along body going to the tail. Pics under white light instead of the blue these pics are taken under can further confirm this mucus. Often with brook, the thick mucus on its body which is noticeable on the fish starts at the facial area as well as gills and spreads across the body producing lesions as it progresses often confused with ich and can turn into secondary bacteria. Other symptoms will be lethargic behavior, refusing to eat and heavy breathing from the mucus.
Typical treatment is a formalin solution is mixed with in a separate container with either fresh or saltwater. Start with a quick dip in the formalin at a higher concentration then performing treatment in a prolonged bath of formalin base at a lower concentration in a quarantine tank. The longer the fish are exposed to the formalin treatment the more effective it will be at eliminating this issue.
If a formalin solution is not available for immediate use, temporary relief can be achieved by giving the fish a FW bath or dip in water same temperature as display tank. Even though this treatment will not cure the disease, it can help to remove some of the parasites, as well as reduce the amount of mucus in the gills to assist with respiration problems.
Treatment is best done in a QT tank using either quick cure (more effective but now harder to find) or Ruby Rally Pro. Ruby takes a little longer and initial treatment generally takes 2-3 days to really start going to work.
With the advanced stage of this- I recommend immediate quarantine of all inhabitants and leaving display without fish for 4-6 weeks.
A quarantine system if you dont have one can be as simple as a starter tank kit from walmart which has most of the essentials

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Thanks for the very detailed posts, that helps quite a bit (but doesn’t always lead us to a definitive diagnosis).

In this case I’m torn between brooklynella or aggression damage.

Jay