Faulty testing kits making me think my tank was cycled..

[Kodock]

Just got back into the hobby again. I had always used liverock in my tanks in the past, and had mini cycles when moving with no issues. I had always used Salifert for testing, mainly the calcium, Hanna alkalinity. API if I was lazy.

However.. this time I just did all Salifert. Their Ammonia test is practically indistinguishable whites..

I did Dr. Tims fishless cycle/bacteria for 3 weeks, dosing Ammonia Chloride. Never really got a big color change.. I tested for nitrates, also practically indistinguishable, and they appeared to exist.

It wasn’t until I added a $100 clean up crew, to experience an 80% mortality rate, with the other 20% practically immobile. Tank and living room smells like cat tick on steroids.. my eyes and nose are practically bleeding. I door dashed an API ammonia tester and blocker, and the test results are light blue.. not even a color on the scale.. Now I think my refractometer might be trash. These were all new testing kits. I also added some clowns, they are still alive, but I’m sure are burning. Did a water change and headed to get more testing equipment and some stability, purigen etc. I have prime and an ammonia remover, using that where I can.

Needless to say… if you’re looking to start up a new tank, spend the extra money on multiple test kits up front, or I guess just keep adding snails until they start to survive. Wait longer. I knew it was fishy for the cycle to have been done so quickly. I ultimately blame myself, but my decisions can only be as good as what the tests show me. In this case Ammonia 0, Nitrates 10-20. API and Seachem say otherwise. More of a rant and self reflection, but yea.

 

[BigMonkeyBrain]

Sorry to hear about your bad experience. I like adding a little fish food to start a tank, and time to initially cycle the few bacteria that grow. I always use a HOB filter on all my tanks and have one handy for starting a new tank.

The cycle is never complete IMO. A few fish and a bacteria load to handle the input seems to grow. I like API test for Nitrite and feel it it the only test kit you need to start a tank and monitor future stocking.

My refractometer is over twenty years old and I thought I should get a standard calibration solution to check it, it was perfect.


Probably happens !

“So let it be written, so let it be done”

 

[JNalley]

So quickly? It's been 3 weeks, that's long for a modern cycle honestly... depending on the method. With Tim's method It's supposed to be done no later than day 20, but should be fish and CUC safe at around day 14, you just end up with elevated nitrites and rising nitrates, but the bacteria are established enough at this point to remove ammonia. Since I never need to test ammonia after the initial cycle, I never buy a test kit, I just buy the badges instead, and keep it in my sump for the year it's good for: https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/ammo...2lI_umtAQ9sz5HpYKAQn6lVpO4efEvOBoC3fgQAvD_BwE


How long after adding the CUC did they start to die? CUC need algae to eat, and your tank is too new to have had any significant amount for them to eat. But, if it was starvation they shouldn't have died immediately, that process would have likely taken several days to a week. If they died within a day or two, it sounds like you may have overdosed the tank with the Ammonium Chloride. This is the reason I don't use Ammonia test kits, because if they are faulty, and you're going off of what the test shows you, instead of what math tells you, you run the risk of overdosing the tank. I also only do the initial dose, wait for it to tell me on the badge that all is clear, test for nitrite and nitrate, if those are up, and the badge says I'm good, I know I have a functional bacterial colony that will process ammonia and I start adding fish slowly, starting with the hardier species.

Sorry this happened to you, hopefully somewhere in my latenight rambling above you find something useful.

 

[Kodock]

So quickly? It's been 3 weeks, that's long for a modern cycle honestly... depending on the method. With Tim's method It's supposed to be done no later than day 20, but should be fish and CUC safe at around day 14, you just end up with elevated nitrites and rising nitrates, but the bacteria are established enough at this point to remove ammonia. Since I never need to test ammonia after the initial cycle, I never buy a test kit, I just buy the badges instead, and keep it in my sump for the year it's good for: https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/ammo...2lI_umtAQ9sz5HpYKAQn6lVpO4efEvOBoC3fgQAvD_BwE


How long after adding the CUC did they start to die? CUC need algae to eat, and your tank is too new to have had any significant amount for them to eat. But, if it was starvation they shouldn't have died immediately, that process would have likely taken several days to a week. If they died within a day or two, it sounds like you may have overdosed the tank with the Ammonium Chloride. This is the reason I don't use Ammonia test kits, because if they are faulty, and you're going off of what the test shows you, instead of what math tells you, you run the risk of overdosing the tank. I also only do the initial dose, wait for it to tell me on the badge that all is clear, test for nitrite and nitrate, if those are up, and the badge says I'm good, I know I have a functional bacterial colony that will process ammonia and I start adding fish slowly, starting with the hardier species.

Sorry this happened to you, hopefully somewhere in my latenight rambling above you find something useful.

I stopped the chloride on day 19. I was under the impression 0 NH3 and abundant NO3, with ammonia producing inhabitants, after so “long”, meant that the nitrifying bacteria was working. I’ll send pics of the test outcomes. Nearly all the nassarius survived, all the trochus died, 2 turbos react when I poke them, but they haven’t moved. The 2 clowns are still alive and moving, but clowns are super hardy.

Sorry to hear about your bad experience. I like adding a little fish food to start a tank, and time to initially cycle the few bacteria that grow. I always use a HOB filter on all my tanks and have one handy for starting a new tank.

The cycle is never complete IMO. A few fish and a bacteria load to handle the input seems to grow. I like API test for Nitrite and feel it it the only test kit you need to start a tank and monitor future stocking.

My refractometer is over twenty years old and I thought I should get a standard calibration solution to check it, it was perfect.


Probably happens !

“So let it be written, so let it be done”

Thank you! I read something about salifert testing only covering 1 ammonia quality, whereas API covers 2 parts of it. I’m guessing free vs binded. Only thing I found on blue anmonia had to due with salinity so high that it interfered with test. I measured and calibrated numerous time on SG. Ordered a milwuakee so we shall see

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

mething about salifert testing only covering 1 ammonia quality, whereas API covers 2 parts of it. I’m guessing free vs binded. Only thing I found on blue anmonia had to due with salinity so high that it interfered with test. I measured and calibrated numerous time on SG. Ordered a milwuakee so we shall see

That's simply not correct.

I think you should stop randomly getting info from around the internet.

What is the evidence that you have problematic levels of ammonia? Smell only?

 

[Cell]

Prime doesn't work. If you are truly having ammonia issues with fish in, then perform large water changes to manage ammonia levels.

 

[Cell]

Was the CUC shipped? Trochus dont ship well and others may take a day or so to start moving.

 

[Kodock]

That's simply not correct.

“I think you should stop randomly getting info from around the internet.”

What is the evidence that you have problematic levels of ammonia? Smell only?

“I think you should stop randomly getting info from around the internet.”.. aren’t you giving me info on the internet? I said “something”.. it seemed off so I mentioned for peer review. If you have something beneficial to add, then the floor is open. If you came here to insult my intelligence, instead of quality input, I’m sure there are other people you can target, not here. It’s the best I could find. I’m not a reef chemist like you, and I don’t work for API or Salifert. The problematic level assumption is from the one test resulting in a color that was not even on the map, while the other was indistinguishable. I’m just throwing out possibilities. I’ve never had a tank smell this potent, so yes smell could be a factor that something is extreme.. hence blue. Normally if I smell smoke, something is burning.

 

[Kodock]

Was the CUC shipped? Trochus dont ship well and others may take a day or so to start moving.

From LFS. I did a 30% water change yesterday and ordered more testing equipment. I’ll do another 10% in a couple days to see what the results are. I’m going to test the mixed saltwater too chemistry (should have done it the first time), I measured the SG, but yea curious if anything might be wrong with the salt or components throwing things off. Seems rare but still.

 

[Mikeltee]

$100 CUC? They had nothing to eat!

 

[Kodock]

$100 CUC? They had nothing to eat!

They would have to have moved to try and eat.

 

[Kodock]

This salinity refractometer has some Brix% feature which I’ve paid not really attention to. When I followed the measurements for mixing salt, it seemed like took more salt to get to 1.026 than what I thought it should. No 35ppt to compare. I’m trying to find more on the Brix.

 

[Kodock]

Bought a second API test to see if the first was faulty. Same result. Salifert looks little to none, unless I’m off.

 

[Dan_P]

Bought a second API test to see if the first was faulty. Same result. Salifert looks little to none, unless I’m off.

There is something wrong with those API kits. There should be no suds and the color should becdarker. The pale blue indicates something is wrong, bad kits or directions not followed.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

“I think you should stop randomly getting info from around the internet.”.. aren’t you giving me info on the internet? I said “something”.. it seemed off so I mentioned for peer review. If you have something beneficial to add, then the floor is open. If you came here to insult my intelligence, instead of quality input, I’m sure there are other people you can target, not here. It’s the best I could find. I’m not a reef chemist like you, and I don’t work for API or Salifert. The problematic level assumption is from the one test resulting in a color that was not even on the map, while the other was indistinguishable. I’m just throwing out possibilities. I’ve never had a tank smell this potent, so yes smell could be a factor that something is extreme.. hence blue. Normally if I smell smoke, something is burning.

I came here to help you sort fact from fiction. I have been running reef chemistry forums for more than 30 years for the exact reason I stated: there is a lot of bogus chemistry on the internet. You clearly got some, but it is no reflection on your intelligence. It is a fact of life that is greatly reduced at Reef2Reef where false info does not stand for long as it gets corrected by members who are knowledgeable.

The smell of many dead organisms could include ammonia, but also includes many other bad and strong smells.

Even in a cycled tank, a big addition can push up ammonia, but I’m not sure ammonia is the issue based on lack of it showing in several kits.

As noted above, shipped organisms can also die for other reasons.

 

[Malcontent]

Ammonia blocker...are you using AmmoLock?

 

[Mikeltee]

They would have to have moved to try and eat.

DOA? You are going way too fast. Keep it up and we will see you on the classifieds in a few months...

Some are wise and listen to those with experience, weigh their vastly different opinions, and form their own conclusions after much contemplation and a little trial and error.

Some research for a week and know it all.

Which one are you?

I wish you luck.

 

[Kodock]

DOA? You are going way too fast. Keep it up and we will see you on the classifieds in a few months...

Some are wise and listen to those with experience, weigh their vastly different opinions, and form their own conclusions after much contemplation and a little trial and error.

Some research for a week and know it all.

Which one are you?

I wish you luck.

Yea, I know nothing and haven’t had multiple setups..

Thread 'Coral for sale'

Georgia - Coral for sale

My corals have become too large for the tank. This toad stool is at least 28"^2 or more wide, the tank is just too small for him. (In a RSM130D). Asking price is $500. Frogspawn colony 1 $500 (roughly 20 large split heads plus the multiple babies on board), frogspawn colony 2 $300 (about 14...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[JNalley]

I came here to help you sort fact from fiction. I have been running reef chemistry forums for more than 30 years for the exact reason I stated: there is a lot of bogus chemistry on the internet. You clearly got some, but it is no reflection on your intelligence. It is a fact of life that is greatly reduced at Reef2Reef where false info does not stand for long as it gets corrected by members who are knowledgeable.

The smell of many dead organisms could include ammonia, but also includes many other bad and strong smells.

Even in a cycled tank, a big addition can push up ammonia, but I’m not sure ammonia is the issue based on lack of it showing in several kits.

As noted above, shipped organisms can also die for other reasons.

Randy, we all know your reputation and who you are, but the way you come across on the forums leaves something to be desired. You've rubbed me the wrong way more than once, and I've seen you called out on it in multiple settings. You should probably take stock of those things and re-evaluate how you approach people.

 

[Kodock]

I came here to help you sort fact from fiction. I have been running reef chemistry forums for more than 30 years for the exact reason I stated: there is a lot of bogus chemistry on the internet. You clearly got some, but it is no reflection on your intelligence. It is a fact of life that is greatly reduced at Reef2Reef where false info does not stand for long as it gets corrected by members who are knowledgeable.

The smell of many dead organisms could include ammonia, but also includes many other bad and strong smells.

Even in a cycled tank, a big addition can push up ammonia, but I’m not sure ammonia is the issue based on lack of it showing in several kits.

As noted above, shipped organisms can also die for other reasons.

I understand, and your input is the most credible and important on here. I value it. I know I pulled a stupid card. Just trying to fathom root causes. I just picked up a new refractometer and hydrometer to see if I’m off somehow. Thread I found had someone say they spoke to API and the blue was due to high salinity binding to the reagents/chemicals.

Ammonia Test.. White? | Water Parameters Forum

Okay. So I just set up my 34 tank/10 gallon sump about a week ago. It has close to 40 lbs live sand and 40 lbs of LIFE rock. When I started doing my Tests obviously ammonia, nitrate and nitrite were all at zero. Very crystal clear readings. My ph is about 8.2. I'm using API test kits btw...

www.fishlore.com