Established Copperband Butterfly has stopped eating, and now shows signs of bloating

[Vivid Creative Aquatics]

Our Copperband (Cooper II), that I have had for at least 7 or 8 years, maybe longer, has not eaten in a few days and is now showing signs of being bloated.

He seems interested in eating, but all of a sudden does not seem to recognize food. This is a fish that has never, intentionally missed a meal. He has always been an enthusiastic eater - he even passed up on some aphasia I offer him. That never happens.

Here's what I know so far

- Eating stopped a few days ago (today is day 3)

- he was eating normally in the evening before the morning that he stopped. He normally spends his days hunting the rockwork and broken up by begging for food at 1pm and 5pm (his regular feeding time) - now he's not hunting at all

- today is the first sign I can see of bloating (see pics below)

- none of the other fish in the tank seem to have issue (Salefin tang, small(ish) Yellow coris wrasse, Leopard Wrass, a single blue/green Chromes, two small Chalk bass, Yellow Watchmen and his Tiger Pistol buddy)

- the last fish to be introduced to the the tank was the yellow coris wrasse at least 4 or 5 weeks ago


Could he a bacterial infection or a blockage.
My research shows it is lily one of these two issue - either way, from what I've read, this rarely ends well.

I have some Epson salt in bound and should have it today. I have read that an epson salt treatment can help if its a blockage. but beyond that, most other treatments require him to eat.

Anyone have any insights or suggestions as to where to go with this?

 

[Reefer Matt]

#fishmedic

 

[JoJosReef]

Sorry to hear that. Was it a full grown CBB when you got it?
@Jay Hemdal

 

[vetteguy53081]

Our Copperband (Cooper II), that I have had for at least 7 or 8 years, maybe longer, has not eaten in a few days and is now showing signs of being bloated.

He seems interested in eating, but all of a sudden does not seem to recognize food. This is a fish that has never, intentionally missed a meal. He has always been an enthusiastic eater - he even passed up on some aphasia I offer him. That never happens.

Here's what I know so far

- Eating stopped a few days ago (today is day 3)

- he was eating normally in the evening before the morning that he stopped. He normally spends his days hunting the rockwork and broken up by begging for food at 1pm and 5pm (his regular feeding time) - now he's not hunting at all

- today is the first sign I can see of bloating (see pics below)

- none of the other fish in the tank seem to have issue (Salefin tang, small(ish) Yellow coris wrasse, Leopard Wrass, a single blue/green Chromes, two small Chalk bass, Yellow Watchmen and his Tiger Pistol buddy)

- the last fish to be introduced to the the tank was the yellow coris wrasse at least 4 or 5 weeks ago


Could he a bacterial infection or a blockage.
My research shows it is lily one of these two issue - either way, from what I've read, this rarely ends well.

I have some Epson salt in bound and should have it today. I have read that an epson salt treatment can help if its a blockage. but beyond that, most other treatments require him to eat.

Anyone have any insights or suggestions as to where to go with this?

Body mass looks good as well as color and I dont see signs of uronema which thus far is good. Is fish breathing normal or rapid?
Based on your statement, I suspect possible gill flukes or other irritation, especially with coral looking the way they do, rukes out water quality issue.

 

[Vivid Creative Aquatics]

Sorry to hear that. Was it a full grown CBB when you got it?
@Jay Hemdal

No - he was small, about 1/4 of the size he is now.

had him in this tank for that at last 2.5 years and was in my previous tank for at least 4 or 5 years.

 

[Vivid Creative Aquatics]

Body mass looks good as well as color and I dont see signs of uronema which thus far is good. Is fish breathing normal or rapid?
Based on your statement, I suspect possible gill flukes or other irritation, especially with coral looking the way they do, rukes out water quality issue.

Yeah he has always been a healthy and well adjusted copperband. he even recover form a broken beak injury he suffered earl after a cleaning tool fell into the the tank and spooked him

Breaking appears normally, but his swimming is markedly slower but deliberate (not swimming funny other than slower than usual). Does not appear to be inspecting or hunting the rockwork.

The only outward signs of issue is the (newly) bloated gut area

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Our Copperband (Cooper II), that I have had for at least 7 or 8 years, maybe longer, has not eaten in a few days and is now showing signs of being bloated.

He seems interested in eating, but all of a sudden does not seem to recognize food. This is a fish that has never, intentionally missed a meal. He has always been an enthusiastic eater - he even passed up on some aphasia I offer him. That never happens.

Here's what I know so far

- Eating stopped a few days ago (today is day 3)

- he was eating normally in the evening before the morning that he stopped. He normally spends his days hunting the rockwork and broken up by begging for food at 1pm and 5pm (his regular feeding time) - now he's not hunting at all

- today is the first sign I can see of bloating (see pics below)

- none of the other fish in the tank seem to have issue (Salefin tang, small(ish) Yellow coris wrasse, Leopard Wrass, a single blue/green Chromes, two small Chalk bass, Yellow Watchmen and his Tiger Pistol buddy)

- the last fish to be introduced to the the tank was the yellow coris wrasse at least 4 or 5 weeks ago


Could he a bacterial infection or a blockage.
My research shows it is lily one of these two issue - either way, from what I've read, this rarely ends well.

I have some Epson salt in bound and should have it today. I have read that an epson salt treatment can help if its a blockage. but beyond that, most other treatments require him to eat.

Anyone have any insights or suggestions as to where to go with this?

It could be a blockage, less likely a bacterial disease. Epsom salts is a freshwater remedy, it doesn’t work in seawater that already has lots of magnesium sulfate in it.
Another idea is that this is ascites from liver or kidney failure. There is no treatment for that though, sorry.

 

[MnFish1]

Don't see gill flukes, instead see an intestinal or swim bladder issue - which is unlikely (i.e. an intestinal issue seems more likely.). Since the fish is not abnormally buoyant, it suggests other blockage issue - whether in the intestine - or as @jay said ascites, etc.

 

[Vivid Creative Aquatics]

It could be a blockage, less likely a bacterial disease. Epsom salts is a freshwater remedy, it doesn’t work in seawater that already has lots of magnesium sulfate in it.
Another idea is that this is ascites from liver or kidney failure. There is no treatment for that though, sorry.

If it's liver or kidney failure what, if any, would be some of the other symptoms the fish may present?

 

[Vivid Creative Aquatics]

Here are some videos the Copperband swimming.

The first one was from earlier today, while the second was from a few minutes ago. His swimming i very different than what it was before the issues started

This was form earlier today during the 1'oclick feeding. You can see he seems hungry, but doesn't seem to recognize the food. Again - this is a fish that has NEVER intentionally missed a meal.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

If it's liver or kidney failure what, if any, would be some of the other symptoms the fish may present?

The most common symptoms are anorexia and fluid build up in the abdomen (ascites). Kidney failure can also cause edema, general fluid filling all tissues, but I don’t see that here.

It may not be organ failure, I just put that out there as another possibility.

 

[moretor1]

Blood worms are a good cure for blockages.

Put buddy in a mesh acclimation box with flow pointing at it

At least that's how I've seen @DaJMasta get his madarin to eat them

Also with renal failure you would be able to see something (I think fish get jaundice too)

 

[Vivid Creative Aquatics]

Blood worms are a good cure for blockages.

Put buddy in a mesh acclimation box with flow pointing at it

At least that's how I've seen @DaJMasta get his madarin to eat them

Also with renal failure you would be able to see something (I think fish get jaundice too)

he is acting hungry - chomping at the water, begging at the glass (not as variously has usually though) but no hunting behavior, and when food goes in, or is presented, he simply does not seem to recognize it as food.

I'm on the hunt for some live food to see if that can help stimulate his feeding response. A while ago, I did try blood worms with him but he quit latterly turned is nose up at them. Maybe if they where live, he would go for it.

 

[MnFish1]

he is acting hungry - chomping at the water, begging at the glass (not as variously has usually though) but no hunting behavior, and when food goes in, or is presented, he simply does not seem to recognize it as food.

I'm on the hunt for some live food to see if that can help stimulate his feeding response. A while ago, I did try blood worms with him but he quit latterly turned is nose up at them. Maybe if they where live, he would go for it.

Sometimes brine shrimp can help with constipation issues if thats playing a role

 

[moretor1]

he is acting hungry - chomping at the water, begging at the glass (not as variously has usually though) but no hunting behavior, and when food goes in, or is presented, he simply does not seem to recognize it as food.

I'm on the hunt for some live food to see if that can help stimulate his feeding response. A while ago, I did try blood worms with him but he quit latterly turned is nose up at them. Maybe if they where live, he would go for it.

Really I would use a big mesh basket and point your return pump at it to blow the worms around the box

It'll look like they're alive that way. And then just leave him be for a few hours

 

[Vivid Creative Aquatics]

Just an update and some really good news, for anyone that is following along.

Cooper II seems to have mostly recovered, and as of yesterday, I would say he's basically back to being 90% himself. The only activity he's not doing is actively hinting the the rockwork

He started eating again on Wednesday by taking a few small bites of food. He would spit most of it out but still, the feeding behavior is what we needed to see.

The next day (Thursday), he was taking bigger bites and eating a lot more vigorously. Still more picky than he used to be and spitting out maybe 1/4 of the food he tried to eat.

Feeding hasn't happen yet today, but he is already begging at the glass, so that's a good sign.

Also, the swollen gut areas seems to have gone down and he no longer looks bloated.

 

[MnFish1]

Great!!! Thanks for the update - its always helpful

 

[Uncle99]

Just an update and some really good news, for anyone that is following along.

Cooper II seems to have mostly recovered, and as of yesterday, I would say he's basically back to being 90% himself. The only activity he's not doing is actively hinting the the rockwork

He started eating again on Wednesday by taking a few small bites of food. He would spit most of it out but still, the feeding behavior is what we needed to see.

The next day (Thursday), he was taking bigger bites and eating a lot more vigorously. Still more picky than he used to be and spitting out maybe 1/4 of the food he tried to eat.

Feeding hasn't happen yet today, but he is already begging at the glass, so that's a good sign.

Also, the swollen gut areas seems to have gone down and he no longer looks bloated.

That’s excellent news!
Especially for that fish….

Keep in mind he’s a senior now at 7-8 years, life span is around 10.

Good luck!

 

[Vivid Creative Aquatics]

That’s excellent news!
Especially for that fish….

Keep in mind he’s a senior now at 7-8 years, life span is around 10.

Good luck!

Yeah - hopefully we'll get to keep him for another few years - if not longer. I would love to have him long enough to get him to a another new tank, but we are likely at least a year or two form starting a new build.

With that said, this fish has been super hardy, and has survived some pretty crazy things - against all odds.

Early last year, he suffered significant damage to his beak. Long story short. I was doing some tank maintenance, and at the conclusion, i went to turn off the overhead lights, and at that moment one of my cleaning tools fell into the tank and it freaked him out. It caused him to go zooming around the tank at extreme high speed for at least 30 to 40 seconds. He broke a few corals and scraped himself up really bad. It ended with him land-darting himself into the sand against the glass. I had to reach and an dislodge him from the sand bed, as he was stuck.

Needleless to say, his beak was severely damaged - the tip was broken off and a good portion was all flaid out. I figured he was done.

He didn't eat for nearly 14 days. once he started trying to eat again, he couldn't hit the mark. His beak was at least a few milliliters shorter than it was before. The beak eventually healed though and although it is shorter than it was, he figured it out.

fast forward to today and he has no issue eating and i think his beak may have even completely grown back - its a little more blunt but it is about the same length.

 

[Uncle99]

Many coppers die within weeks.
The fact you’ve had him so long is a testament to your skills!