Embracing a new concept...and freeing our minds from preconception. Not easy.

[uniquecorals]

How do you deal with salinity changes (what the skimmer pulls out, acclimating fish, etc)? I guess the idea is that if you stick with a brand of salt, every time you dial in your salinity, it will return to the base "tested" system...is this line of thinking correct?

Well, specific gravity needs to be dealt with by topping off with fresh RO/DI water, like you'd do in any system. It's the saltwater that is the issue...Sticking with one brand of salt at least, in theory (depends on the manufacturer's consistency from batch to batch), is a good way to eliminate at least a few possible variables. Triton contends that you can use any brand of salt. However, their thought is that the system still needs to be "calibrated", if you will, to achieve NSW parameters on trace elements. Once you set the parameters, you're maintaining them by dosing the proper amounts (determined through testing) of specific trace elements. You're NOT depending solely on the salt mix to supply them. And, since you're not relying on water changes to replenish trace elements, you're giving your reef just what is being consumed by the life forms within it. Is it a perfect system? No, of course not. But there is a certain elegant simplicity that will, hopefully- translate into success on a practical level for a wide variety of reefers. Again, there is a lot to learn, from both a chemistry perspective AND a philosophical/husbandry perspective...Really cool stuff, and we're looking forward to working more with it and learning from/sharing with others our successes and challenges.

Scott

 

[uniquecorals]

this system of measurement for water composition is long over due.Now if we could perform all these test on a android phone hahahah

Well, you could receive the test results on your Android phone...And now, you can download the Unique Corals Android and iPhone Mobile Apps to shop on your phone (I couldn't resist the segue you gave me...LOL)!

 

[pgravis]

I'm looking forward to hear about your experiences and see how this changes things. Despite the ESA listing hanging over our heads, it's an exciting time to be a reefer!

 

[uniquecorals]

I'm looking forward to hear about your experiences and see how this changes things. Despite the ESA listing hanging over our heads, it's an exciting time to be a reefer!

Absolutely! And if we can all collaborate on creating a brighter future for the hobby- everyone wins.

 

[Aqua fire/medic]

This sounds incredible! Pls keep us updated

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

NSW around the globe is fairly consistent for most open ocean waters in it's salinity and trace element content, so I can see the logic behind using a particular standard, likely averaged from available data.

I think many aquarists would at least be curious to know how much their water's element content diverges from a NSW standard, especially those that have systems successfully running for many years or even decades.

One unknown that such testing does not divulge is how the trace elements are bound by organics. Elements such as copper are almost completely bound in NSW. What they are bound by and to what extent may very well be different in aquaria, and even tank to tank, even with the exact same measured element concentration. So the bioavailability and/or toxicity may not be entirely reflected by such measurements.

 

[uniquecorals]

One unknown that such testing does not divulge is how the trace elements are bound by organics. Elements such as copper are almost completely bound in NSW. What they are bound by and to what extent may very well be different in aquaria, and even tank to tank, even with the exact same measured element concentration. So the bioavailability and/or toxicity may not be entirely reflected by such measurements.

Hey Randy, could that explain why some tanks seem to do well despite, for example, unusual husbandry techniques, such as lack of skimming and water changes and no other forms of replenishment, etc? Seems like even this method is at best a way to create a sort of "baseline" for one's reef, and maybe follow a consistent methodology to keep some parameters in check? Definitely why we're not saying it's the "bee's knees", but it seems to be a big step forward from what we've had to work with in the past!

It's going to be very interesting to see the longer-term implications of this stuff!

-Scott

 

[Aquaph8]

If nothing more just getting a quality test of some of the stuff we don't normally test for would be interesting. As a fish guy I don't love the idea of only feeding one type of food but when did I ever follow all the rules anyways I'd love to know what lighting is over his tank though, looks like a pretty cool fixture.

 

[uniquecorals]

If nothing more just getting a quality test of some of the stuff we don't normally test for would be interesting. As a fish guy I don't love the idea of only feeding one type of food but when did I ever follow all the rules anyways I'd love to know what lighting is over his tank though, looks like a pretty cool fixture.

Ehasan has developed and incredible LED lighting system, called "Lani", that is different than many other systems out there. We'll be getting units to test in our facility and keep you posted...

-Scott

 

[Nano sapiens]

Ehasan has developed and incredible LED lighting system, called "Lani"...

-Scott

Lower wattage LEDs spread out in modular arrays that cover nearly the whole tank's surface area to better simulate a T5 type light field. Not a new concept in the DIY LED world, but nice to see what looks like a well executed commercial product.

 

[Eienna]

Even people who opt not to use the method can benefit from the tests. It would help tell us how true our salt mix really is to the ocean, and how consistent it truly is (as opposed to its claims.) Of course, this must allow or input from food....perhaps the occasional sample of new water could be sent?

I for one am intrigued by this new idea. I wonder how it stacks up economically?

 

[leptang]

How do you deal with salinity changes (what the skimmer pulls out, acclimating fish, etc)? I guess the idea is that if you stick with a brand of salt, every time you dial in your salinity, it will return to the base "tested" system...is this line of thinking correct?

Not the average reef keeper can get the correct salinity; one you cant vacuum the test water you are using to get a true SG of salinity. Also with variable additives in your water could change the density of the Specific Gravity, meaning more of other properties then just salt are measured by Specific Gravity in the pressure of altitude that you are at, verses sea level.

To get a better understanding of Specific Gravity check out Wikipedia's specific gravity definition.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hey Randy, could that explain why some tanks seem to do well despite, for example, unusual husbandry techniques, such as lack of skimming and water changes and no other forms of replenishment, etc? Seems like even this method is at best a way to create a sort of "baseline" for one's reef, and maybe follow a consistent methodology to keep some parameters in check? Definitely why we're not saying it's the "bee's knees", but it seems to be a big step forward from what we've had to work with in the past!

It's going to be very interesting to see the longer-term implications of this stuff!

-Scott

I'd certainly be interested in seeing a profile of my tank, although I'm not sure what I'd do about it.

All I can really say about why so many tanks do well that is that food brings in a lot of stuff, and most of our inverts seem quite forgiving when water doesn't exactly match seawater.

I also think that there may be a Darwinian effect where all of us lose inverts over time. We may lose those that can't accept what the current conditions are, and the others thrive. We don't often know what was wrong, but it may sometimes be issues with the water that we never really understood. So tanks may aoppear to thrive just because we keep those inverts that are actually able to thrive.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Not the average reef keeper can get the correct salinity; one you cant vacuum the test water you are using to get a true SG of salinity. Also with variable additives in your water could change the density of the Specific Gravity, meaning more of other properties then just salt are measured by Specific Gravity in the pressure of altitude that you are at, verses sea level.

To get a better understanding of Specific Gravity check out Wikipedia's specific gravity definition.

I'm not sure what you are getting at, but I don't agree that folks are getting substantially incorrect values for salinity for the reasons you are mentioning. I've evaluated some (like variability in calcium levels) and it is not a big factor over the range that we encounter. I don't agree about the vacuuming, unless it is mud-like. We do not need to know that the sg of the tank is 1.026000. Knowing it is 1.026 is more than accurate enough for any reef tank.

 

[Joker79]

Very interesting read and look forward to learning more about it!
Besides water changes are a pain anyhow... :juggle:

 

[Battlecorals]

I also think that there may be a Darwinian effect where all of us lose inverts over time. We may lose those that can't accept what the current conditions are, and the others thrive. We don't often know what was wrong, but it may sometimes be issues with the water that we never really understood. So tanks may aoppear to thrive just because we keep those inverts that are actually able to thrive.

phew!! does that mean I can stop pulling my hair out when i can't make just that one acro happy no matter what I do LOL. In seriousness this actually makes a lot of sense to me. That there is some long term inability to really fully acclimate that is outside our ability to provide for would help explain a lot of otherwise desperate excuses for why stuff just doesn't thrive.

 

[Electrobes]

One thing I'd like to know is actual cost, especially for U.S. customers. Though I know companies want to create buzz on their services and product, I hate it when something's announced with no actual time line and price.

I don't know enough of what they do, but my question would be the following: Is there not a lab here in the U.S. that could perform the same test they do over in Germany, to cut costs? Is the testing method/equipment something that's proprietary for Triton? If the premise is to test all these water based elements, and then to replenish what isn't there with what I can assume aren't proprietary elements... I'm surprised there isn't already a non-reef affiliated lab out there that could do the same.

If anything, I'd like to know what my levels are in general. I haven't read up on the Triton method enough to yet make a solid opinion on it, but I'd support anything that could help reefers achieve success.

 

[Big E]

I'm gonna be the crotchety old stick in the mud on this.........so I'm supposed to jump on this exiting new way of reefkeeping with literally no track record versus the 25 years of success of keeping it simple by doing my 10% water changes?

My systems have always been simple...........this is not...........it's complicated and worse of all number chasing, which I hate as it gets people onto a merry-go-round of trouble.

 

[uniquecorals]

One thing I'd like to know is actual cost, especially for U.S. customers. Though I know companies want to create buzz on their services and product, I hate it when something's announced with no actual time line and price.

I don't know enough of what they do, but my question would be the following: Is there not a lab here in the U.S. that could perform the same test they do over in Germany, to cut costs? Is the testing method/equipment something that's proprietary for Triton? If the premise is to test all these water based elements, and then to replenish what isn't there with what I can assume aren't proprietary elements... I'm surprised there isn't already a non-reef affiliated lab out there that could do the same.

If anything, I'd like to know what my levels are in general. I haven't read up on the Triton method enough to yet make a solid opinion on it, but I'd support anything that could help reefers achieve success.

Great questions!

The technique that Triton uses is certainly NOT proprietary. ICP is used in a variety of lab applications. It has never before been applied to aquarium water testing, and Triton has written specific protocols for their tests (those are proprietary). ICP machines are VERY expensive, several hundred thousand for the type Triton uses, so not every aquarium-related business has the capital to acquire one! Sure, it will probably be a matter of time before someone else comes along and does the same thing here in the U.S.. The elements are anything but proprietary, as I don't think anyone holds the patent for trace elements! LOL. I suspect that, if this catches on in the US, there will be many companies selling pure trace elements at some point.

And having good information about our reefs is never a bad thing, IMHO!

-Scott

 

[uniquecorals]

I'm gonna be the crotchety old stick in the mud on this.........so I'm supposed to jump on this exiting new way of reefkeeping with literally no track record versus the 25 years of success of keeping it simple by doing my 10% water changes?

My systems have always been simple...........this is not...........it's complicated and worse of all number chasing, which I hate as it gets people onto a merry-go-round of trouble.

Please be "Crotchety."- I'm much the same, believe me...I've written extensively about the folly of chasing numbers over the years. It took me a lot to get my head around this. As Ive repeated before- it's NOT the "BEST" or "ONLY" way to accomplish a successful reef system- It's one means to achieve that goal. I am the ultimate in simple, yet habitual reef keeping technique. A die hard "just change the water" aficionado. It took a long time for me to get my head around the logic of this system. And no one is telling you to abandon all that has worked. What we are presenting is another option to get where many want to go...and it's just one option. I've been keeping marine tanks since 1977. I've seen and studied practically every "innovation" that's come down the road, and many are good, some are sketchy, while others are downright kooky. To me, Triton is really good, because it essentially is a deconstructed form of what we've been trying to do for many years in the hobby- create stability for our animals as much as possible. There are a number of ways to achieve this; Ehsan's technique is only one of them.

The phrase "No water changes!" literally makes me cringe...I still have to think about it constantly when evaluating Triton- but the logic is there. I actually beg to differ about the "complicated" part...The test lab does the "complicated" part of analyzing your sample. If you adhere to their methods, you're really just adding the things to your system that are deficient, to bring them towards NSW levels. That's the most complicated part, IMHO. It's not a daily regimen. You're not constantly adding stuff...Just periodic testing after a baseline is established, so that you can keep parameters tight..Not operating on a razor's edge...That appeals to us.

Granted, a closed system is NOT the ocean, and there are many variables as has been mentioned, but this system was conceived based upon the premise of removing as many variables as possible, and trying to create a "baseline" for water chemistry that your tank can aspire to follow. The "no water change" rationale here is to keep variables to a minimum. Nutrient export is essential to this method, and I cannot argue at all with that. Protein skimming, use of chemical media, and refugia are not any more complicated just because you're applying Triton's approach. Cut out the water changes, and you've actually made less work for yourself. Again, it takes a lot for me to get my head around this...but there is a simple, elegant logic to it. There are, however, lots of little questions that pop up as we've been investigating and embracing the method, and I'll share them with you as we tackle them.

For years, we've been chasing numbers in the hobby- and I agree that this is a recipe for frustration for many. I field calls every day from hobbyists obsessing over a .03ppm difference in phosphate, when all they need to do is just look at the tank and see how their corals are doing. No method- Triton, Berlin, Balling, etc.- will ever be a substitute for the skill and observation of the aquarist. These methods are developed to assist, supposedly to make life easier. In this case, you're trying to keep trace element levels in a tight range resembling natural sea water levels, and eliminating as many variables as possible to help keep the range limited. The other parts of the "method" are simply things we've employed for years. The Triton premise is that there are many variables in synthetic salt mixes that can be eliminated by employing their method, which is why the water changes are not considered a good idea. On the surface, it makes sense to me. Again, it took a lot for me to get a grasp on this. I mean, even though it's impossible to completely replicate the ocean in our tanks, we can at least strive towards one characteristic of the ocean- stability. the ocean is probably the most stable environment on earth, and corals evolved to live in this environment, so it makes sense to attempt to create stability as much as possible in our reef tanks.

In our facility, we have almost 16,000 gallons and many thousands of corals, and we see periods of time where stuff looks great, looks bad, and sometimes is in between. We employ a lot of good technique, equipment, and materials to help keep our corals in top shape. Nonetheless, we experienced inconsistencies from time to time that had us scratching our heads. More often than not, we find the changes are caused by fluctuations in some key water parameters caused by a number of factors, including good old human error. This despite automation, dosing, water changes, feeding, etc. The appeal of a system that eliminates some variables is strong for us.

What first turned us on to Triton in the beginning was to create a more consistent environmental situation for our corals. Period. And it applies nicely to a reef tank. It's certainly not for everyone. It's remarkably simple for all of the apparent complexity. Again, we call it "empowered" reef keeping, because all you're really doing is what we've tried to do for years, with just a more accurate handle on what's going on in your system, to make better decisions. If you know something that your corals need is lacking, and how much-you'll add it. This is a way to determine and correct what is lacking, with a more precise focus. That's all.

More to follow in the coming months, and we will provide an honest assessment of our experiences- promise!

-Scott