Embracing a new concept...and freeing our minds from preconception. Not easy.

[uniquecorals]

following. I am a firm believer in knowing what the levels for each mineral and trace minerals present in your water (we just never had a comprehensive test to show us that) and how the levels need to be adjusted to achieve consistent levels in our eco systems that will promote healthy corals and fish. I will gladly pay for such a test to KNOW where the levels are and then have a road map to get there.

I share your attitude!

I think that it is definitely worth it, as a geeked-out reefer....I can see that some people would simply not enjoy this type of method, because, although it gets pretty easy, it requires a bit more understanding of some of the more esoteric aspects of the hobby (i.e.; chemistry), and let's face it- a lot of people just don't like that kind of stuff. My head felt like it was gonna explode when I first started studying it- but now, I'm starting to really get it, and I think it's invaluable information to use. There is a lot to learn at first- or should I say- "unlearn" about what we've been doing for years, but the beauty of science is that the facts don't lie. We can either choose to work with them or not.

That being said, based upon the enormous amount of inquiries we've received thus far, we think that Triton will become a pretty popular approach here in the U'S.

We're going to be transparent on every level, sharing our good and bad experiences, and all of the stuff that we learn as we progress with it. We feel that the best environment for trying new things is one in which everyone shares. It will only make the experience more useful, interesting- and enjoyable!

-Scott

 

[Ike]

I can understand how you might feel that things are a bit commercial. Well, the reality is that Triton sells a product (tests) and trace elements, etc. There is no getting around that. However, the point of all of this stuff is increasing success as a reefer with knowledge. We have spent the better part of three decades in the reefing hobby chasing all sorts of parameters and different promises of achieving success via various "methods", and it's only natural that you might be a bit skeptical. Skepticism, as outlined previously in this post, is good. We feel that this methodology, which relies on scientifically verifiable facts, as opposed to assumptions and guesses, is a great way to achieve the results we all want. We're very enthusiastic about this! That being said, you will not hear, and have not heard, any of the people associated with Triton say "This is the BEST method", or stuff like that...It's one way to achieve success, and it has a lot going for it.

Here are answers to your questions from Ehsan, who Joe and I are with at this moment:

1) Ehsan studied chemistry at University of Cologne in Germany. He also studied
production technology. He started Triton Labs 7 years ago, with his father and mother, a chemist and pharmacist respectively.


2) Ehsan did not quite understand this question. What kinds of guarantees would be required? Why would there be a need for a guaranty? What would it look like? If you are curious because of some strange result, like 10,000PPB of iodine or something like that, there is a post-validation check built into the protocol which will warn lab personnel that something is wrong! If you want assurances of accuracy, Triton provides information on the limits of detection for all of the elements it analyzes. Also, regression out of the ICP machine for each element to be tested is available. The deviation (+ /-) will be forthcoming (it takes a little time to get these figures together). Even the line line definition is available on request, and possibly will be a download in the future.

As far as dosing zinc is concerned, Ehsan was not suggesting to dose for zinc unless your water was determined to be deficient in that particular trace element. Zinc is a co-factor in an enzyme called carboanhydrase, which is needed and produced by corals as they grow, to keep the pH within the coral tissues from becoming acidic.

3) We are truly in unknown waters here, no pun intended. The irony is that, even though we can test for many of these things, and know what ratios they should be at compared to natural sea water, scientists do not fully understand the specific function of every trace element in NSW. That being said, we know what natural sea water values are, and we try to replicate these values because of a lack of complete knowledge at this point. This is still more accurate information than we have ever had previously about natural sea water in the hobby. Remember, the purpose of the analysis is not only to determine shortcomings, it is to detect harmful excesses and to suggest corrections that can be made to avoid harm to corals.


4) Yes, seawater composition is different at locales all around the world. Just how different? To find out what the differences are, you need to test. Triton does not pretend to know the answers about the seawater everywhere. The set points for Triton's recommendations were arrived at by analyzing samples of NSW from around the world, especially reef habitats, and are an average of levels form the locales studied, with the exception of dangerous components that have their source in pollution, etc. It's the best information currently available. If a reefer wants to replicate a specific habitat, it is possible to create water chemistry parameters based on these locales. That is the beauty of having information. You as a reefer can even change the set points on your own.

Thank you for your participation. We appreciate your feedback and participation, and encourage you to share your opinions and questions!

Scott, Joe, and Ehsan

1.) So does he have a degree in chemistry?

2.) Was simply wondering if there was any sort of assurance in the accuracy of the test results.

3.) This is where this really breaks down for me. We've maintained very successful reefs without this information for many years. We don't really know what many of these trace elements do. So, is it even worthwhile to chase numbers for them. That's up to the individual to determine, but I think this point it's safe to say it's certainly safe to say it's not not essential, or even important in any way. Maybe just neat and nice to know...

I'd be curious to hear from Randy (or anyone else familiar) if these results, given that this method of testing is not new outside of the hobby, will these results be reliable and "fact" as claimed above?

I hope the Germany trip went well!

 

[hart24601]

It will be really great to test some salt mixes and see if the low heavy metal claims are real or if they are all the same except for taking our money. It's interesting to me how acro Al can breed clams using pumped in sea water, yet many of us have trouble keeping clams long term (aside from light) and from what I know there are no successful clam breeding and rearings in artificial water. That would seem to indicate to me that there is room for improvement in salt mixes at least for some sensitive marine organisms. Of course perhaps a "perfect" salt is not economically possible due to reagent cost, but having accurate and inexpensive tests for current mixes and formula updates is a good start.

 

[gregoryleonard]

Scott,
When will this testing system be available in the US? Any approximate date yet?
Anxious to learn what's deficient or too concentrated in my reef tank.

 

[trueblackpercula]

Amazing read

 

[Eienna]

What I might do is send in a sample every six months or so, just to make sure my usual protocol is maintaining what's needed.

 

[Squamosa]

It will be really great to test some salt mixes and see if the low heavy metal claims are real or if they are all the same except for taking our money. It's interesting to me how acro Al can breed clams using pumped in sea water, yet many of us have trouble keeping clams long term (aside from light) and from what I know there are no successful clam breeding and rearings in artificial water. That would seem to indicate to me that there is room for improvement in salt mixes at least for some sensitive marine organisms. Of course perhaps a "perfect" salt is not economically possible due to reagent cost, but having accurate and inexpensive tests for current mixes and formula updates is a good start.

Hey there.

I make my own salt from pure reagents, starting with NaCl, from time to time as needed (which is hardly at all).

I do this using the DSR method, a sort of simplified Triton (although Glennf would probably go nuts if he saw that )

P.s. Al uses NSW because he has easy access to free, clean water at his door step You should see how his acro's grow!

Cheers,
Tony

 

[trueblackpercula]

I think this is amazing and I would like for someone to answer a few questions before I decided to start a completely new approach on my system.

1) Do I need to remove my 4" deep sand bed
2) Do I stop carbon dosing ?
3) Is there a recommend salt brand to use
4) Do I need a refugium as I don't have one now
5) finally what is the cost of the trace elements as this is going to be the key for not only me but most reef tank keepers.

Thanks Michael

 

[uniquecorals]

I think this is amazing and I would like for someone to answer a few questions before I decided to start a completely new approach on my system.

1) Do I need to remove my 4" deep sand bed
2) Do I stop carbon dosing ?
3) Is there a recommend salt brand to use
4) Do I need a refugium as I don't have one now
5) finally what is the cost of the trace elements as this is going to be the key for not only me but most reef tank keepers.

Thanks Michael

Hi Michael,

All great questions. Let me preface by saying that there are no "absolutes" and "rules" to embracing Triton's methods...Only recommendations based upon what works for them and other users after following the philosophies. tag being said, here are some thoughts on each of your questions:

1) You can leave your sanded in place. It does perform a biological "filtration" (i.e.; nutrient export) service, and is useful for that reason...in many "methodologies", IMHO!

2) It is recommended that you stop carbon dosing, because you are introducing another variable into the system. Triton espouses indirect feeding of corals by simply stocking your tank with a lot of fishes, and feeding them well. Easier, IMHO.

3)There is no specific brand recommended. Use one that world best for you. In the end, you'll know via testing what trace elements are being utilized by your system, and will be able to make your own conclusions.

4) A refugium is recommended, as it forms one of the primary nutrient export mechanisms for the Triton "method." Remember, this is a methodology that does not embrace the typical "x percent" water change for nutrient export purposes, because of the potential for variables the introduce into a system, so a good, healthy refugium is super important. Remember, Triton's "method" was not developed as a means to avoid water changes- rather, water changes are considered unwanted for regular nutrient export because of the water chemistry variations they may create...A different way of looking at things for me, for sure, but the logic is sound and proven.

5) We will have the trace element solution costs shortly. The good news is that you will not typically be dosing 32 different trace elements. You'll find over time that perhaps just a few things are required by your system- it's all based upon the demands of your livestock. The primary "dosing" is the 4-part "Base Elementz" solution (similar in many respects to the 2 and three part solutions you see and possibly use now). They will form the basis of the dosing regimen for most systems that embrace the "method." Much more to follow on this stuff very soon. Check out the Triton US forum here on R2R for much more as Triton launches this week!

Thanks,

Scott

 

[acromike]

Triton Test

Wow this is very exciting as well as humbling to me. It goes to show that we don't understand nearly as much as we think we do. Any method of carbon dosing is based on anecdotes. Really hope this system allows us to identify problems and take action to correct them.

Potential to revolutionarize reef keeping IMO

 

[srpsycho11]

Well Unique Corals, you have once again provided me with an informative and thought provoking article. While I share many of the concerns posted above, mostly the need to send repeated water samples off for testing, how can we not explore the possibility of ending water changes. After all, was it not advancements in the hobby that allowed me, and many of us, to go from fish only tanks years ago to full reef tanks, and where was LED lighting 25 years ago.

 

[uniquecorals]

Wow this is very exciting as well as humbling to me. It goes to show that we don't understand nearly as much as we think we do. Any method of carbon dosing is based on anecdotes. Really hope this system allows us to identify problems and take action to correct them.

Potential to revolutionarize reef keeping IMO

I think it is very exciting...Really, for the first time, a really accurate test to determine trace element levels is available to hobbyists at a reasonable price. There IS so much we don't yet understand, like what some of the trace elements actually do for corals..Ironically, we know the levels that they should be at in NSW, though. A ton to learn. And as you surmise- the ability to correct potential problems without guesswork is huge

Definitely an evolution...A big step forward for the hobby, in terms of knowledge empowerment...

-Scott

 

[uniquecorals]

Well Unique Corals, you have once again provided me with an informative and thought provoking article. While I share many of the concerns posted above, mostly the need to send repeated water samples off for testing, how can we not explore the possibility of ending water changes. After all, was it not advancements in the hobby that allowed me, and many of us, to go from fish only tanks years ago to full reef tanks, and where was LED lighting 25 years ago.

Yeah, the "no water changes" thing is the most difficult concept for an old salt like me to get his head around...In reality, the tricky part is understanding why Triton doesn't espouse the traditional concept of a water change. The reality is that it fully embraces other forms of nutrient export. And, as previously discussed, exchanging of saltwater with some freshwater to compensate for an increasing specific gravity as a result of the multi-part dosing solution is par for the course...We will have much, much more to discuss as this evolves. Check out the Triton US forum on R2R for the latest stuff..We'll try to keep much of the Triton discussion there!

Thanks again for the kind words!

-Scott