Does hydrogen peroxide kill ich tomonts on frags?

[Duzzy]

That's a brave thing to say

That's a brave thing to say

As soon as I hit post I knew id cop it it’s who I said imho! but I’ve been in the hobby a long time over 35 yrs with exception of last 5 (even then still read / post etc) not claiming to be an expert just expressing what I’ve found to be true.

 

[MnFish1]

As soon as I hit post I knew id cop it it’s who I said imho! but I’ve been in the hobby a long time over 35 yrs with exception of last 5 (even then still read / post etc) not claiming to be an expert just expressing what I’ve found to be true.

Ive used neither methods and have had no problems.

 

[Duzzy]

Ive used neither methods and have had no problems.

Do you quarantine or have a lfs that quarantines Though?

 

[Crabby48]

H202 does not kill ich. What it does is keep ich out of water column so it can’t feed off the fish. Basically you are waiting on ich time line for ich to die from not feeding on fish.

 

[Duzzy]

H202 does not kill ich. What it does is keep ich out of water column so it can’t feed off the fish. Basically you are waiting on ich time line for ich to die from not feeding on fish.

How does it do that do you know?

 

[MnFish1]

Do you quarantine or have a lfs that quarantines Though?

yes - the LFS I buy from quarantines. IMHO - there is an issue in this hobby - where people are repeatedly buying fish and corals - and each time - risk an introduction. I had not bought any fish or coral for 5 years before taking my tank down

 

[Crabby48]

How does it do that do you know?

That I can not answer. I didn’t look in to it that far. I have used h202 baths as part of fish at and have dosed h202 to reef tank for ich. The exact how it keeps it off fish I can not answer.

 

[Duzzy]

That I can not answer. I didn’t look in to it that far. I have used h202 baths as part of fish at and have dosed h202 to reef tank for ich. The exact how it keeps it off fish I can not answer.

It’s funny we all have our methods. How do you use it in qt?

 

[Crabby48]

It’s funny we all have our methods. How do you use it in qt?

Most of the time I do not but have used it as a dip when moving fish. I’m mostly wrasse so they get prazi and two week copper. Had an Achilles in a display that showed little ich a year ago and couldn’t pull 25 fish for qt so dosed h202 to display.
Humble forum has great info about h202 dips and they have a great thread for treating displays with h202. Some big name that sell qt’ed fish been using h202 as part of their process.

 

[gbroadbridge]

H202 does not kill ich. What it does is keep ich out of water column so it can’t feed off the fish. Basically you are waiting on ich time line for ich to die from not feeding on fish.

Evidence? Published Papers?

 

[Crabby48]

Evidence? Published Papers?

All trial. Evidence depends on what you want and from where. Yes using h202 works. It’s something your best to read and decide for yourself. If you have interest in treating then I recommend reading up.
It can be pretty amazing stuff. More people that use it more data but it has been in trail for few years

 

[alexytman]

@alexytman , please don't expose coral to copper or hyposalinity.

I've heard bad things about running hypo with copper toxicity. Is it true? I've also heard reef builders talk about hypo being better for fish health though since it's less energy for osmosis

 

[alexytman]

All trial. Evidence depends on what you want and from where. Yes using h202 works. It’s something your best to read and decide for yourself. If you have interest in treating then I recommend reading up.
It can be pretty amazing stuff. More people that use it more data but it has been in trail for few years

I don't doubt it has effects on free floaters. I've read a paper on effects of ozone on farmed fish on ich life cycle so by theory both should produce free radicals to kill them? (but they strangely found insufficient ozone dosages lead to increased disease)

Personally I'll be running a 25w uv for my 60gal just bcuz in the past it has helped me with bacterial slime/clarity especially when dosing higher amounts of carbon. Tbh I started this thread since I recently got velvet (so QT is needed) but ich management was pretty doable since I don't have tangs.

I'm close to Indonesia so most stores run high volumes of fish/coral sales and couldn't care less about diseases / QT / fishless frag tanks. So IG frag quarantine is needed sadly

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I've heard bad things about running hypo with copper toxicity. Is it true? I've also heard reef builders talk about hypo being better for fish health though since it's less energy for osmosis

Ionic copper is more toxic to freshwater fish since there is little calcium to bind with it. However, chelated copper is not an issue - in fact, Coppersafe is used in FW or SW at the same dose.

Hyposalinity is not less stressful to the fish. Low salinity (say a specific gravity of around 1.018) is less stressful, because that is the same ionic level as the fish's blood, so they don't have to work as hard to maintain proper osmotic balance. However, true hyposalinity is lower than that, and is stressful to the fish.

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Just got ich/velvet so planning 90 day fallow. I'm fine with QT fishes and inverts but think I can't be patient enough for qt for coral frag swaps. Hydrogen peroxide has been used as coral dips for algae so I am wondering anyone used it to bypass frag quarantine assuming the chemically violent free radicals will kill the tomonts cysts. Cheers!

Hydrogen peroxide has gained a lot of interest in disease control, primarily because of a paper written where high dose dips were shown to control Amyloodinium infections. The trouble is, people took that information and then ran with it - extrapolating it for all sorts of other treatments and doses.

I did some bench testing about peroxide itself, just to learn more about it chemically:

Hydrogen Peroxide Bench-testing

Bench testing of the effects of hydrogen peroxide in aquariums.

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[alexytman]

Ionic copper is more toxic to freshwater fish since there is little calcium to bind with it. However, chelated copper is not an issue - in fact, Coppersafe is used in FW or SW at the same dose.

Hyposalinity is not less stressful to the fish. Low salinity (say a specific gravity of around 1.018) is less stressful, because that is the same ionic level as the fish's blood, so they don't have to work as hard to maintain proper osmotic balance. However, true hyposalinity is lower than that, and is stressful to the fish.

Jay

Alright I think I'll end up doing low sal copper treatment since it seems more full proof than a chemical free hypo sal treatment. I'll probably use some silica sand in a box from my FW systems for my wrasses. Cheers!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Alright I think I'll end up doing low sal copper treatment since it seems more full proof than a chemical free hypo sal treatment. I'll probably use some silica sand in a box from my FW systems for my wrasses. Cheers!

Just be aware that low salinity - say a specific gravity between 1.015 to 1.020 has no proven disease control benefit. Flukes drop out at 1.012 and marine ich dies out at 1.009

Jay

 

[alexytman]

Just be aware that low salinity - say a specific gravity between 1.015 to 1.020 has no proven disease control benefit. Flukes drop out at 1.012 and marine ich dies out at 1.009

Jay

Thanks for all these tips. I'm using only slightly lower salinity for the mentioned immunoboost as insurance for copper medication stress. Not trying to start another brackish system XD. My mudskipper system is running about that salinity .