Do i have some fish disease spreading, or is this just damage?

[Juju2773]

Sorry to hear it is spreading, that is unusual.

Metroplex needs to be dosed at a therapeutic rate, you cannot just mix some in with the food - your dose might be too low or too high. One dose is 100mg metro per kg of fish mass. That is very difficult to calculate. Another dose is 1/2 to 1% in the food by weight and feed that to the fish daily for three days. Trouble is, metro is very bitter, and when you get up around 1%, the fish stop eating it.

Here is an article on medicated foods:

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods

This article offers information about developing medicated foods for aquarium fish

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

Also, i know each fish is a different size or weight and it is impossible to get an accurate measurement into each fish, but each fish only eats the amount of food its own body can handle so im thinking they will get a close to appropriate amount for their size. Or close to it.

 

[Cthulukelele]

When I lost 1 of my 3 lyretail anthias to uronema that is exactly how the lesion originally presented. Idk that there's much you can do. It may spread to other fish. It may not. It's definitely already in the water. Feed well and monitor and sadly the affected fish is likely already damaged internally beyond saving IMO.

 

[Juju2773]

When I lost 1 of my 3 lyretail anthias to uronema that is exactly how the lesion originally presented. Idk that there's much you can do. It may spread to other fish. It may not. It's definitely already in the water. Feed well and monitor and sadly the affected fish is likely already damaged internally beyond saving IMO.

Thanks.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Why is the spreading unusual? Isn’t uronema a highly contagious pathogen?

No, it is not an obligate fish parasite. It can be isolated from many/most well established tanks. It’s normal niche is it feeds on bacteria. For unknown reasons, in some types of fish, it becomes a facultative internal fish parasite. Usually this is seen in newly acquired fish and doesn’t spread to established fish like it did in this case.
Nobody knows how or why the protozoans get inside the fish.
Jay

 

[Juju2773]

Does anyone know,
Is it possible to treat my tank for the uronema with aquarium salt to make a higher salinity? I am also getting a bunch digitate hydroids and hope this may help for both. I do water changes every week and my tank is usually very clean, never had bad issues with algae or diatoms, my sand is always white . The hydroids came from a ball of supposedly.. clean.. dragonsbreath macroalgae sold by a well known retailer.
Anyways, i prefer natural treatments & ive read a little about it and thought id ask for opinions before doing it. Thanks

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Does anyone know,
Is it possible to treat my tank for the uronema with aquarium salt to make a higher salinity? I am also getting a bunch digitate hydroids and hope this may help for both. I do water changes every week and my tank is usually very clean, never had bad issues with algae or diatoms, my sand is always white . The hydroids came from a ball of supposedly.. clean.. dragonsbreath macroalgae sold by a well known retailer.
Anyways, i prefer natural treatments & ive read a little about it and thought id ask for opinions before doing it. Thanks

In my article, I discuss using hypersalinity in controlling uronema in seadragons and seahorses. I should have clarified though - in those fish, Uronema is an external infection, and so the increased salt content of the water reaches the Uronema cells directly. In cases of internal Uronema, hypersalinity will NOT work, because the fish's body regulates the internal fluids to a standard level (usually a specific gravity of around 1.018 or so). That means increasing the salinity in the tank just makes the fish work harder to reach that osmotic balance.....

Jay

 

[sc50964]

Does anyone know,
Is it possible to treat my tank for the uronema with aquarium salt to make a higher salinity? I am also getting a bunch digitate hydroids and hope this may help for both. I do water changes every week and my tank is usually very clean, never had bad issues with algae or diatoms, my sand is always white . The hydroids came from a ball of supposedly.. clean.. dragonsbreath macroalgae sold by a well known retailer.
Anyways, i prefer natural treatments & ive read a little about it and thought id ask for opinions before doing it. Thanks

With Jay’s previous response that it is unusual to have uronema spreading from new to established fish, you may not need to worry as much or at all.

 

[Juju2773]

In my article, I discuss using hypersalinity in controlling uronema in seadragons and seahorses. I should have clarified though - in those fish, Uronema is an external infection, and so the increased salt content of the water reaches the Uronema cells directly. In cases of internal Uronema, hypersalinity will NOT work, because the fish's body regulates the internal fluids to a standard level (usually a specific gravity of around 1.018 or so). That means increasing the salinity in the tank just makes the fish work harder to reach that osmotic balance.....

Jay

Thanks Jay,
Well, thats why i was thinking that at the moment no other fish appear affected, but it is probably still in my tank without a host, and if it attaches to a fish it will still be on the outside for a short period right? So it might catch it before it has a chance to find a new host. ? Another thing, i always test the water in the bag when i buy a new fish and the last one i bought from the lfs it was super high, at 1.029. I now believe the do this to keep the bad stuff at bay maybe. I didnt even know fish could live at that high of salinity. Mine is always 1.025 . I thought maybe id turn off my auto top off and let it raise up a bit slowly over the next few days.

 

[Juju2773]

With Jay’s previous response that it is unusual to have uronema spreading from new to established fish, you may not need to worry as much or at all.

I believe my fish did get a scrape to begin with and thats how or why it got in. And if so, it is in my water or sand and could be taken care of before another fish gets an injury. Also, the digitate hydroids i have are beginning to spread and i am hoping it might work on them as well. Im still doing some research, but i definitely considering it. I read it even works for ich and a few other bad ones. Although i dont have those.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks Jay,
Well, thats why i was thinking that at the moment no other fish appear affected, but it is probably still in my tank without a host, and if it attaches to a fish it will still be on the outside for a short period right? So it might catch it before it has a chance to find a new host. ? Another thing, i always test the water in the bag when i buy a new fish and the last one i bought from the lfs it was super high, at 1.029. I now believe the do this to keep the bad stuff at bay maybe. I didnt even know fish could live at that high of salinity. Mine is always 1.025 . I thought maybe id turn off my auto top off and let it raise up a bit slowly over the next few days.

Nobody really knows how internal Uronema gets inside a fish. It does not readily spread from fish to fish, so killing it while it is out in the open water may or may not help. There is some thought that since Uronema normally feeds on bacteria, a fish with a bacterial infection is actually creating food for Uronema to focus on. Then, once established, the Uronema begins feeding on the fish tissue itself. However, this has not been proven either.

Jay

 

[Cthulukelele]

Nobody really knows how internal Uronema gets inside a fish. It does not readily spread from fish to fish, so killing it while it is out in the open water may or may not help. There is some thought that since Uronema normally feeds on bacteria, a fish with a bacterial infection is actually creating food for Uronema to focus on. Then, once established, the Uronema begins feeding on the fish tissue itself. However, this has not been proven either.

Jay

Idk if this is part of your background, but do fish typically get internal uronema that leads to lesions and death in their natural environment?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Idk if this is part of your background, but do fish typically get internal uronema that leads to lesions and death in their natural environment?

IDK - I don't have any reports of it. The issue seems to stem from the supply chain, fish seem to pick it up after they are collected. It is probably something only seen in captive fishes.

Jay

 

[Juju2773]

IDK - I don't have any reports of it. The issue seems to stem from the supply chain, fish seem to pick it up after they are collected. It is probably something only seen in captive fishes.

Jay

I actually have lost 3 fish now from this. I didnt realize until a looked back at photos i took of a flubbucks fairy wrasse that i had recently bought from divers den. It had these same red bruising on its body and was loosing scales, but i had never had a fairy wrasse and thought it was just part of its coloration. It only lasted about a week and a half. I had a short quarantine and a dip ( i was under the assuption that divers den already quarantines their fish),

IDK - I don't have any reports of it. The issue seems to stem from the supply chain, fish seem to pick it up after they are collected. It is probably something only seen in captive fishes.

Jay

and i had just added it to my tank before it died two days later in my tank and i had to dig it out from my rocks. The next day i bought the anthias that was extremely healthy and she got it within 2 days and died, then my pink anthias that ive had for a long time got it and he died. So it is definitely spreading and i am hoping to get a solution before another fish dies.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I actually have lost 3 fish now from this. I didnt realize until a looked back at photos i took of a flubbucks fairy wrasse that i had recently bought from divers den. It had these same red bruising on its body and was loosing scales, but i had never had a fairy wrasse and thought it was just part of its coloration. It only lasted about a week and a half. I had a short quarantine and a dip ( i was under the assuption that divers den already quarantines their fish),


and i had just added it to my tank before it died two days later in my tank and i had to dig it out from my rocks. The next day i bought the anthias that was extremely healthy and she got it within 2 days and died, then my pink anthias that ive had for a long time got it and he died. So it is definitely spreading and i am hoping to get a solution before another fish dies.

Chloroquine at 20 mg/l works well in killing free-living Uronema, but that cannot be used in a reef tank with invertebrates, and it will kill all algae in a FOWLR as well.

There isn't anything that will kill Uronema without harming invertebrates.

Jay

 

[Juju2773]

Chloroquine at 20 mg/l works well in killing free-living Uronema, but that cannot be used in a reef tank with invertebrates, and it will kill all algae in a FOWLR as well.

There isn't anything that will kill Uronema without harming invertebrates.

Jay

Thank you.

 

[Juju2773]

Chloroquine at 20 mg/l works well in killing free-living Uronema, but that cannot be used in a reef tank with invertebrates, and it will kill all algae in a FOWLR as well.

There isn't anything that will kill Uronema without harming invertebrates.

Jay

Ive looked this up but how do i find this? Is it in any aquarium products? Thanks again

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Ive looked this up but how do i find this? Is it in any aquarium products? Thanks again

After all those issues with chloroquine and Covid, it got mostly taken off the market. You might be able to find a veterinarian that will prescribe it for you. It is also available here in bulk (expensive):

Chloroquine Phosphate

Jay

 

[Juju2773]

When I lost 1 of my 3 lyretail anthias to uronema that is exactly how the lesion originally presented. Idk that there's much you can do. It may spread to other fish. It may not. It's definitely already in the water. Feed well and monitor and sadly the affected fish is likely already damaged internally beyond saving IMO.

Did you do any sort of treatment to stop it from killing all the fish? Has it returned at all since?

 

[Cthulukelele]

Did you do any sort of treatment to stop it from killing all the fish? Has it returned at all since?

I agree with Jay (also he knows way more about fish disease). Usually you see it in newly acquired fish specifically anthias, chromis, and wrasse. It doesn't usually or really ever spread to the healthy established fish in the tank. When I lost one of mine to uronema it was soon after getting them. I mainly just made sure they were eating good quality food and seemed cared for. The other 2 showed signs with 1 developing pretty intense classing uronema lesions, but over time it healed up to where you wouldn't even really be able to notice the damage if you didn't know where it was. Happy fish is a healthy fish imo

 

[Juju2773]

I agree with Jay (also he knows way more about fish disease). Usually you see it in newly acquired fish specifically anthias, chromis, and wrasse. It doesn't usually or really ever spread to the healthy established fish in the tank. When I lost one of mine to uronema it was soon after getting them. I mainly just made sure they were eating good quality food and seemed cared for. The other 2 showed signs with 1 developing pretty intense classing uronema lesions, but over time it healed up to where you wouldn't even really be able to notice the damage if you didn't know where it was. Happy fish is a healthy fish imo

I am so confused by this because after the fairy wrasse died in the tank, somehow it then killed 2 extremely healthy anthias in my tank. But it has been almost a week since the last death and so far so good. No signs of another sick fish. But i am watching them extremely close. I have not done any treatment inside the tank , but if another fish dies, i will have to consider it. As for now i will keep doing my regular weekly waterchanges and feeding good food.