Disease ID, Blue regal/hippo tang

[pardas]

Hi!

I need your help to zero in the disease and start the appropriate treatment for my blue tang, got it about 6 weeks ago from my LFS, did "One Stop" quick QT upon arrival and had it under observation for 3 days as it was recently shipped and tiny, just about in, after 3 days of good eating I spotted 3-5 white beam shape spots on its body (too big for ich or velvet and not clustered) and did a FW bath, they went away, by day 10 they came back and did two weeks of Prazi. After a week in observation I spotted ich, so it went into two weeks of 0.4 to 0.5 ppm of cupramine. During all this time it gained size and weight, it's about 2in now, the only hard time was the 2 days prior the copper and the first 3 days in it, it got stuck in a filter for a moment, appetite came back right away and cleaned the bare bottom tank. I moved it to my DT as color, skin texture and shape was great, a bit light on color around some areas but over all in good shape, by day 3 in the DT (8/28) I spotted two white patches with velvet-fur like texture and several (around 7) white beam shape spots around its body, they showed up overnight as I have been observing the fish evolution. Today (8/29) most of the white color marks are gone, but one patch that still same size and less fury. The patch that changed color/went away leaved a hole on the fish skin (see video 2), looking like a healed ulcer in dark color. All other small white dots leaved the same feature, a dark color - no skin depresion.
DT was with inverts and corals, as it's a new build (media and rock previously cured with bacteria and fully cycled), running for over 2 months.
Water parameters are spot on, 1.025sg, Nitrates 5 ppm, Phosphates 0.05ppm, 77F. Dosing NeoPhos and NeoNitro to prevent them to bottom out as fish load is low/nule (130g total water displacement). Runnin UV 24x7 and refugium for around 8 hrs.

Fish was scratching against the rocks just one day (8/28), no zoonies or erratic swimming, but is getting shier by the minute. Still eating good, is not attracted to the garlic nori after the copper, maybe flavor change but still solid on mysis and brine shrimp, also pellets and some small algae over the rock work.

I can see some rugosity on its belly, not smooth and even as before and a small triangular shaped depression area after its anus cavity on both sides, this was impossible to capture in a photo and hard to spot watching the videos.
First one (white light is from 8/28)
Second one (blue light from 8/29)

I will appreciate the advise

Cheers

.

 

[Reefahholic]

Can’t see the videos. Sounds like velvet, but could be ICH. Erratic swimming behavior is usually consistent with velvet. The gills are on fire and the fish is in a lot of discomfort. Also, velvet will typically show some discolored areas on the skin.

I’d try to pull him and do a H2O2 dip for immediate relief. Then treat with copper at therapeutic level while tank transferring if necessary.

 

[pardas]

Video 1

 

[pardas]

Adding youtube links, vid should be up soon,

 

[pardas]

Update
All "old lessons" are healing, leaving a black spot behind, stomach is even and smooth all around.
BUT, there is a new lesson on the forehead, this is a link with a video update:

 

[vetteguy53081]

Update
All "old lessons" are healing, leaving a black spot behind, stomach is even and smooth all around.
BUT, there is a new lesson on the forehead, this is a link with a video update:

Video is distant and a little fuzzy. This type of fish is susceptible to skin irritations and mucus cones and may be playing a role. Need closer and clearer images under same light intensity to confirm. Coppersafe in quarantine will address the mucus cones but if not, need to verify with clearer images

 

[pardas]

Video is distant and a little fuzzy. This type of fish is susceptible to skin irritations and mucus cones and may be playing a role. Need closer and clearer images under same light intensity to confirm. Coppersafe in quarantine will address the mucus cones but if not, need to verify with clearer images

Hye VG,
Thanks for looking in this porst, new videos on, HD and 60 fps.
Yeah fish came with no imperfection after 2 weeks in copper.

 

[pardas]

Update sep 8/9

I did not want to put the fish on back to back copper weeks, so decided to wait and observe.
All "old" white spot (mucus cones) disappeared and healed, but new ones keep on coming with the same cycle.
Today I noticed white cloudy eyes, they are covering no more than 15% of the eyeball edges.
No other fish has shown any symptom, I have a black clown that is the perfect canvas for while spots, but still pristine.
Fish still active and eating well.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I don't see any evidence of velvet. the spots I can see in the video are too large to be ich.

A couple of observations - 14 days is too short to treat copper against ich. the tomont resting stage is not killed by copper and these can survive longer than 14 days, and then turn into theronts after the copper has been removed. I prefer 30 days of coppersafe or copper power.

These larger spots could be mucus plugs. This often have no real consequence and are commonly seen on hepatus tangs. They can also be a sign of underlying ich or flukes.

What was your actual protocol treatment regimen for the prazi? What drug did you use? Dosing interval?

Jay

 

[pardas]

Hey @Jay Hemdal, thanks for the answer.

I will keep an eye on ich as only did 14 days.
Regarding Prazi, I used the suggested concentration (2.5mg/L), 8 days apart with 25% water change as suggested here (R2R). No carbon, skimmer or UV during this period.

As today's update, eyes cloudiness and other white spots are gone, the right back ulcer is healing and he is enjoying cleaner shrimp therapy. Beside some fin tears and black skin mark, the fish is good.

I will keep it under observation, any thoughts?

Mucus cones explain the eventual white dots on the fish, what I can not get my head around is the ulcer looking marks on the fish, see the snap from the videos.

All of them are healing well.
I would like to think that those are injuries caused when the fish is looking for shelter in the rock work, but I have seen your comments regarding these fish naturally train to avoid scratches as that's their natural habitat.

That's the last piece in the puzzle for me.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hey @Jay Hemdal, thanks for the answer.

I will keep an eye on ich as only did 14 days.
Regarding Prazi, I used the suggested concentration (2.5mg/L), 8 days apart with 25% water change as suggested here (R2R). No carbon, skimmer or UV during this period.

As today's update, eyes cloudiness and other white spots are gone, the right back ulcer is healing and he is enjoying cleaner shrimp therapy. Beside some fin tears and black skin mark, the fish is good.

I will keep it under observation, any thoughts?

Mucus cones explain the eventual white dots on the fish, what I can not get my head around is the ulcer looking marks on the fish, see the snap from the videos.

All of them are healing well.
I would like to think that those are injuries caused when the fish is looking for shelter in the rock work, but I have seen your comments regarding these fish naturally train to avoid scratches as that's their natural habitat.

That's the last piece in the puzzle for me.

It's true that this species lives amongst the branches of Acropora coral and is very adept at not getting scratched by coral. In aquariums, these sorts of marks are more commonly caused by tankmate aggression, but the spots on your fish are not in common locations for that.

The posturing for the cleaner shrimp tells me that something is still bugging this fish, something on its skin.

Flukes can be very difficult to treat, even with prazi. Some fluke species lay eggs and the eggs are not killed by prazi. The trick is to try and time the doses so that any eggs hatch out and are killed by the second dose, but before they can lay eggs on their own - I've had cases where I need 5 doses to eradicate stubborn flukes. Then, a bacteria grows in the tank that consumes prazi as a food source. The bacteria is so good at this that past about 4 doses, prazi becomes virtually useless.

 

[pardas]

As a follow up, tang started to scratch against the rocks again, just completed another 2 weeks of Prazi today.
Looking pristine now, under observation for new/old symptoms