Dinoflagellates my experience......h2o2 reefing tool!!!!!

[jasonp87]

I read back further and I think macros will be fine. I will take a before pic and try to get as much info on how the tank is before starting to dose, that way I can give more info during and at the end of the process. I'm going to add it to my sump in the return section so it gets dispersed into the display and avoids the skimmer as much as possible. I'm excited to start trying this!

 

[melev]

I'm thinking of starting to dose hydrogen peroxide now. I have a 25 gallon with 5 gallon sump. Mostly softies with LPS and a little sps. I saw the rule of 1ml for every 10 gallons. Is that what everyone is doing? Can I just drop it in my tank or do I need to target the algae to get results? Do I need to worry about any of my corals reacting poorly? I already dip all my zoas in h2o2 but never anything else so I'm just nervous. I have tried everything else though to get rid of my gha and nothing has been successful. H2o2 already wipes it out on my zoa frags so I know it does work on a small scale. Any additional advice before diving in?

This treatment is not for GHA (Green Hair Algae). It's for dinoflagellates. GHA can be removed by lowering the nitrate and phosphate level in the system, and adding more hungry snails to consume it. It's also going to take some manual effort on your part to pluck out all you can. Fortunately, your tank is small so this isn't nearly as challenging as it would be in a bigger setup.

 

[jasonp87]

This treatment is not for GHA (Green Hair Algae). It's for dinoflagellates. GHA can be removed by lowering the nitrate and phosphate level in the system, and adding more hungry snails to consume it. It's also going to take some manual effort on your part to pluck out all you can. Fortunately, your tank is small so this isn't nearly as challenging as it would be in a bigger setup.

I've been studying up on this for a couple months now here and elsewhere and it should be an effective treatment for the gha. I expect it to take longer to get rid of than dinos though. The only reason I am going this route is because I have already tried everything else to rid my tank of this stuff short of pulling the rocks and cooking them or adding a tang (only 25 gallons). I have had algae eater after algae eater fail to eat this stuff and end up starving. Lawnmower blennies, sea hare and snails of all shorts from multiple different vendors including the largest mexican turbos I could find. On more than 1 occasion I have put a turbo in the middle of a patch of this stuff, it has eaten some, and then died. Whatever strain it is is, it's really nasty stuff. I have tried water changes and carbon. I have reduced feelings and light times. I have a skimmer rated to 70 gallons on a 25 gallon tank. I have added and changed flow as well. I've thrown the book at this stuff and it persists. I think I have slowed it slightly, but definitely not halted or reversed its growth. Due to all the algae my nitrate and phosphate levels never show anything but 0.0.

 

[melev]

Can you please post a picture of what you are dealing with? A full tank shot and then a few clear close ups under white lighting, if possible. If you have algae present, Phosphate is in the water for sure no matter what your kit tells you.

 

[jasonp87]

Can you please post a picture of what you are dealing with? A full tank shot and then a few clear close ups under white lighting, if possible. If you have algae present, Phosphate is in the water for sure no matter what your kit tells you.

Yeah ill try and get pics. I know the phosphate is there, hence the algae, that's why I think phosphate tests are useless once you already have algae. They are only any good if you can use them to catch it before an outbreak.

 

[jasonp87]

Here is some next to my nem. This is after I've cleaned it up a bit.

Full tank will have to wait until tomorrow. I skipped starting dosing today.

 

[melev]

I'm going to need a better picture. Dead on, underwater with no flow preferably. What is your hand isn't a good way to visualize what it is, but I'm thinking you may be dealing with something called Bryopsis rather than Derbesia. Bryopsis | Melev's Reef

 

[jasonp87]

Looking on reef cleaners (4th algae listed) it looks exactly like what they have as green hair algae. It is not feathery like bryopsis either, it is long and smooth.

Reef Cleaners

 

[h2pvnus]

Can i use this to dose

 

[melev]

Yes, that is the correct type. 3% hydrogen peroxide.

 

[h2pvnus]

Yes, that is the correct type. 3% hydrogen peroxide.

The fomulat still the same right 1ml/20gal

 

[melev]

The fomulat still the same right 1ml/20gal

If you go back to page 1 of this thread, he directed 1ml per 10-gallons of liquid volume.

 

[h2pvnus]

If you go back to page 1 of this thread, he directed 1ml per 10-gallons of liquid volume.

My bad that what i mean 1ml/10gal

 

[Stefano Russo]

There is a product here in Italy but is made in Germany that in 3 days make your dyno disappear for sure, and it has been tried in many full sps tank with no problem.

It is called Dinoxal. NEVER SAW IN MY OWN LIFE SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

 

[SantaMonica]

The overall thing to remember with any algae, especially dino's which are the easiest to get rid of, is that your export is simply too little. When you increase your export, the dino's go away first, then gha. Maybe this will explain it:

Nutrient Export

What do all algae (and cyano too) need to survive? Nutrients. What are nutrients? Ammonia/ammonium, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate and urea are the major ones. Which ones cause most of the algae in your tank? These same ones. Why can't you just remove these nutrients and eliminate all the algae in your tank? Because these nutrients are the result of the animals you keep.

So how do your animals "make" these nutrients? Well a large part the nutrients come from pee (urea). Pee is very high in urea and ammonia, and these are a favorite food of algae and some bacteria. This is why your glass will always need cleaning; because the pee hits the glass before anything else, and algae on the glass consume the ammonia and urea immediately (using photosynthesis) and grow more. In the ocean and lakes, phytoplankton consume the ammonia and urea in open water, and seaweed consume it in shallow areas, but in a tank you don't have enough space or water volume for this, and, your other filters or animals often remove or kill the phytoplankton or seaweed anyway. So, the nutrients stay in your tank.

Then the ammonia/ammonium hits your rocks, and the periphyton on them consumes more ammonia and urea. Periphyton is both algae and animals, and is the reason your rocks change color after a few weeks. Then the ammonia goes inside the rock, or hits your sand, and bacteria there convert it into nitrite and nitrate. However, the nutrients are still in your tank.

Also let's not forget phosphate, which comes from solid organic food particles. When these particles are eaten by microbes and clean up crew, the organic phosphorus in them is converted into phosphate. However, the nutrients are still in your tank.

So whenever you have algae "problems", you simply have not exported enough nutrients compared to how much you have been feeding (note: live rock can absorb phosphate for up to a year, making it seem like there was never a problem. Then, there is a problem).

So just increase your nutrient exports. You could also reduce feeding, and this has the same effect, but it's certainly not fun when you want to feed your animals

 

[melev]

The overall thing to remember with any algae, especially dino's which are the easiest to get rid of, is that your export is simply too little. When you increase your export, the dino's go away first, then gha.

< snip >

So just increase your nutrient exports. You could also reduce feeding, and this has the same effect, but it's certainly not fun when you want to feed your animals

Dinoflagellates are not easy to get rid of, and lengthy articles have been written about it. It's one of the most difficult algaes to eliminate, far more work than bryopsis or derbasia. Problem Dinoflagellates and pH by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

Diatoms are easy to remove, but those are a food source for bacteria so they are not something you should want to eliminate - give those a couple of weeks and they will vanish as quietly as they arrived.

I know of fish stores that have taken out all the livestock, ran it with all kinds of nutrient export methods (dosing kalk, skimming, water changes, no food, no light, waiting for weeks...) and it still was a major battle to get rid of it. I had a small breakout of dinos in my 400g twice, and both times I used 3% Hydrogen peroxide daily for 8 days in a row, and eliminated the problem. I still ran my lights, topped of for evaporation, fed my fish three times a day, etc.

 

[neilhigbee]

Hi

Is this the correct strength
Its says hydrogen peroxide 3% food grade

Thanks

 

[melev]

Yes.

 

[neilhigbee]

Many thanks

Could some one give me a bit of advice,
Are the dosing instructions of 1ml per 10 gallons for us or uk gallons.

As i have a 717ltr tank with about 80ltrs of water in the sump, i reckon have about 60 - 70kg of live rock which i estimate takes about 80ltrs of space so probs have about 710 ltrs of water.

Please could someone advise on dosing for my tank .

Many thanks neil

 

[h2pvnus]

Many thanks

Could some one give me a bit of advice,
Are the dosing instructions of 1ml per 10 gallons for us or uk gallons.

As i have a 717ltr tank with about 80ltrs of water in the sump, i reckon have about 60 - 70kg of live rock which i estimate takes about 80ltrs of space so probs have about 710 ltrs of water.

Please could someone advise on dosing for my tank .

Many thanks neil

It 20ml of dosing so i suggest break it down dosing 4 times a day