Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[ccbobafett]

No algae growth this morning I assume it’s cyano.

 

[brandon429]

From a few pages back: invasive strain Dinos are not in all tanks, it's not possible for them to be in mine. Anyone getting frags from my tank are getting dino free frags guaranteed without fail.

Strict obligate hitchhikers, once eradicated and not re imported, no dinos.

The cause of all dino invasions is standard vectoring and not lighting or nutrients, though those are used as battle actions after import occurs.

There is no combo of lighting or dosing that can bring about dinos in a system where their Dna doesn't exist, im not talking coral clades im meaning invasive ones.

The reason I've never had dinos is due to where I sourced my substrates and corals and the universal exclusion habit applied over the years. When any invader was seen, the whole tank bottom to top was instantly cleaned so no invader can adapt to that. Direct, hands on rejection is why nobody has enduring dino invasions at nano-reef.com

That's an entire reef board with not one pattern of persistent invasion tanks. Dinos seem to be rampant elsewhere, that's for sure. The way we take apart tanks and tap rinse sandbeds just isn't available to larger tanks, the smaller a tank gets the easier it is to keep invasion free, board-wide invasion percentages seem to agree.

Over the next five years, keep an eye on nano tanks and if they're not having dino problems compared to larger tanks who take water only actions/dosing etc. A pattern might then emerge if not already clear. Even the nano forum here... starkly different invasion percentages just on the first three pages of the forum compared to general forum, including gha, dinos, valonia

Nano keepers are finding out slowly they can simply opt out (scrub out) of the invasions a large tank has to put up with for months, weeks and years.

All I'm meaning by the post is, anyone with a nano can get rid of dinos by direct cleaning, as we do, that's why the boards differ. I'd take critique from Taricha on my blanket admonition since he directly tests in pico reefs. The bad strains like proro and ostre seem widespread enough now I don't see how an entire board can be free of them while all large tank forums have ongoing invasions.

I'm directly linking the physical cleaning habit we've impressed onto pico reefers as a primary reason for the glaring differences. If they are being encountered, our tank care habit which is the polar opposite of dosing phosphate seems to be at play. That doesn't knock the method for large tanks, they can't disassembly clean a few times in a row like we do. Dose away, do whatever works

https://www.nano-reef.com/forums/to...nt-dino-invasions-not-seen-by-and-large-here/

 

[taricha]

I think an issue we hobbyist are having with this plant, is the variables.
I've seen every method, theory and trial of eradication, yet only a few know how these actually survive.
For the most part they are all almost, if not a mixotrophic.

This maybe why any given eradication method works for one, not another.
There is a limit starving factor somewhere in the universe.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.0022-3646.1995.00456.x/full

You aren't wrong. Mixotrophy exists, but it's kinda been a white whale for Dino researchers.
That paper was is 95, those claims have been chased around for years. Here's scientists trying to find evidence for the claims of cell ingestion (in 1000's of cells of Ostis, proros, and coolia) in 2017 and not seeing it.
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1679-87592017000300392&lng=en&nrm=iso

Does mixotrophy happen? Yes, in the form of eating bacterial prey and consuming large organic molecules made by other organisms. Do they eat whole visible cells, as reported in 95? Nah. Not our kinds.

 

[taricha]

Hi @taricha and others; can you have a look at this video and help ID. So my dinos are no longer symptomatic, but under the scope i can still find cells hanging around algae... the sample in the video below was taken from a little scraping of the buildup on a frag rack... whats interesting is it looks different than the species that was most common on my sandbed; prorocentrum... this looks different to my eye

p.s. video contains several magnifications; higher mag is towards the end; you can see the flagellum

Ok, here's my best guess. I think it's something related to a cryptomonas/rhodomonas. It gets the shape, size, flagella and some of the moment. The constant spinning is what tiny flagellates and ciliates do when they are consuming food. they use the spinning to force prey into the gut. See this video of oxyrrhis marina posted before.

Phycokey: Cryptomonas
I have had similar guys show up in my tank on multiple occasions after a dino bloom subsides. Mine are reddish and more flattened - hence I lean to rhodomonas.
I'm posting mine because they present like a mild dino bloom.

reddish dusting on the sand. Dinos?

under the scope it's these guys instead.


and here's closeup animation showing the double-flagella coming out of the front opening.

And finally, the weirdest thing about them, when I hit them with h2o2, they turn highlighter pink.

buncha weirdos.

 

[sfin52]

@ccbobafett your are not looking for growth but for regrouping. Dino will regroup. I really hope it is cyno.

 

[taricha]

@brandon429 longer response later, but I think of it like surgery vs farming (actually farming is pretty well controlled, maybe more like managing forest land.)

 

[brandon429]

I will also admit if I had a large tank and had dinos, I might freak out a little. if a large tank ever graces my home its going to look like a high tech rocket motor of some kind due to the number of UVs id have to strap to it to sleep well at nite

 

[ccbobafett]

Oh ok still is just water no regrouping so I think it’s good. This for help will update if something does occur. Thanks

 

[tenurepro]

Ok, here's my best guess. I think it's something related to a cryptomonas/rhodomonas. It gets the shape, size, flagella and some of the moment. The constant spinning is what tiny flagellates and ciliates do when they are consuming food. they use the spinning to force prey into the gut. See this video of oxyrrhis marina posted before.

Phycokey: Cryptomonas
I have had similar guys show up in my tank on multiple occasions after a dino bloom subsides. Mine are reddish and more flattened - hence I lean to rhodomonas.
I'm posting mine because they present like a mild dino bloom.

reddish dusting on the sand. Dinos?

under the scope it's these guys instead.


and here's closeup animation showing the double-flagella coming out of the front opening.

And finally, the weirdest thing about them, when I hit them with h2o2, they turn highlighter pink.

buncha weirdos.

glad that it is not a different type of dino, thanks a million!

 

[seastar]

I haven't updated in a while so...

• I run a UV filter 24/7 since identifying that I had dinos (confirmed under a scope - Osteopsis and Amphidinium)
• I've been dosing nitrates (20-25) and phosphates (.11-.23) higher than suggest (don't do this, RIP to 6-7 acros) for around 2-3 months
• I manually blast my sand with a turkey baster daily
• I can't seem to get any competing algae going, so I thought I'd add a refugium and copepods.

My chaeto ball broke apart before all of the part arrived to plumb the refugium, but I was still able to dose the pods and today (maybe a week or so after adding the pods) I was able to witness something VERY interesting...

There are patches of dinos missing and the pods are all over the sections. It's a little hard to see in the video, but I point out the patches and if you look on the blue plumbing you can see just how many pods are in there. I think having them in there has been mentioned dozen of times as help, but here I have actually captured it.

 

[sfin52]

It’s not enough just to dose phosphates and nitrates. At some point you may have to add the biodiversity back in the tank. That’s what I had to do as well. I added a new piece of live rock, pods water change from different tank. I also scraped film off my other tank and added to reef tank just to add the biodiversity back to the tank.

Some pods will consume Dino.

Now I have feather dusters growing on my new rock. Pods population growing. Film algea growing and Coraline algea growing on sides of my tank. I still haven’t seen any bristle worms. I may have to add some.

 

[reeferfoxx]

check out the videos in my post on 3rd Oct. I think you are describing something I had seen previously. Some said it might be tetraselmis.

Very similar but possibly smaller. Also more movement.

Also kind of any update on that, I'm seeing less brown and more green on the glass as well as more cyano. This is the path I want to be on. Also, I added 3 possibly 4 new fish(if one would stop stressing), so cheato refugium will be turned back on in the near future followed by more pods. Though, I'm already seeing more pods.

 

[terriblesarcasm]

Hey guys,

Unfortunately it sounds like I might be dealing with dinos. I've attached two pictures for help in IDing them.

Let me know any other information I can give that will help.

(I read about the microscope and I will look into that as well but for sale of time and quickness especially due to the holiday hopefully this is a straightforward ID.)

Thanks!

 

[brandon429]

If your tank is a nano that's totally different action than if it's large what size tank

 

[terriblesarcasm]

If your tank is a nano that's totally different action than if it's large what size tank

It's a 45 gallon with 10 gallon sump.

Started with dry reef saver rock.

 

[brandon429]

That size is right about the breakpoint we see in disassembly rip cleaning threads which exports the mass angrily like the sand rinse thread, the after pics there were forced by the keeper, they weren't something the tank matured into. You'd be surprised how well it works, the disallowance mode.

Others choose to leave water and sand alone, boost nutrients, boost competition, and not have to take the tank apart. Coaxed reduction comprises 90% of this thread with any use of UV being on the alternative direct disallowance mode. UV + disallowance, that's why nobody on nano reef.com is having endless Dino issues. Nanos are easy to rip clean. Big tanks aren't, such is the action option differences between large and small reefs

Very nice setup +10

You are acting early that's good regardless of the mode you choose. Nano reef sites don't have recurring invasion issues, large tank sites do. That means something imo we all buy from same lfs and frag trading/sourcing I'm thinking it's the reaction sequences that differ. Something has to account for combing through thirty pages of threads and finding no patterns at the nano reef sites.

 

[terriblesarcasm]

I would really prefer not to have to disassemble everything as my corals have been doing well, and I've spent a decent amount of time on the tank already, even if it's only been up for a short amount of time.

I've never had dinos before and have only had smaller tanks previously. I've never had a UV sterilizer before and am not exactly sure what it does (besides sterilization based on the name...).

I have a biopellet reactor as well as a reactor that was running carbon and gfo. Based on the thread it seems as though I should turn off the bioreactor with the gfo.

Does disassembly mean everything including overflow tubing and piping and the such? Or the scrubbing of rocks in particular where the dinos are?

 

[sfin52]

Keep an eye on things....that was a pretty fair amount of rock to add all at once. Hopefully you won't see any negative reactions.

If anyone else wants to try this, a few small pieces of should be all you need. A pound or so....around a cup of material...but even less would work, maybe depending on the tank size and what you're actually adding. 1/4 cup of detritus goes a long way...but that's very little live rock, for example.

Just started seeing feather dusters growing.

 

[sfin52]

I would really prefer not to have to disassemble everything as my corals have been doing well, and I've spent a decent amount of time on the tank already, even if it's only been up for a short amount of time.



I have a biopellet reactor as well as a reactor that was running carbon and gfo. Based on the thread it seems as though I should turn off the bioreactor with the gfo.

Does disassembly mean everything including overflow tubing and piping and the such? Or the scrubbing of rocks in particular where the dinos are?

No I just blew the rocks off with a power head. Yes turn off the gfo. I would keep or start running activated carbon to help with toxins

 

[sfin52]

Some pics after the blackout:

Man that's a sick set up. Loving it