Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[reeferfoxx]

I did this once. I added a drop of liquid miracle grow to a beaker of dinos and all the dinos were gone next day. Later realized I burned them with ammonia in the fertilizer. Unfortunately after I looked into it, the levels of ammonia needed to halt dinos (they encyst) is at or above levels harmful to fish etc.

Yeah, this is how I'll be cleaning my tank. After pulling livestock, rocks and sand, I'm going to dump a bottle of ammonia in the tank and let run for a day or two.

 

[Beardo]

Yeah, this is how I'll be cleaning my tank. After pulling livestock, rocks and sand, I'm going to dump a bottle of ammonia in the tank and let run for a day or two.

I'm not sure if ammonia will kill encysted dinos, never seen any studies on this. I would use bleach or peroxide in the right concentration as those are proven methods.

 

[reeferfoxx]

I'm not sure if ammonia will kill encysted dinos, never seen any studies on this. I would use bleach or peroxide in the right concentration as those are proven methods.

One could assume there are some encysted dinos. But mine are flourishing as of now. So the idea is to remove livestock, rocks, and sand, in the same day without removing tank water. This theoretically should keep existing dinos from encysting. Dumping ammonia in to kill live dinos and then followed up with a tap water waterchange with bleach etc etc

 

[Lowefx]

Has anyone tried dosing trace amounts of ammonia yet?

 

[taricha]

I'm not sure if ammonia will kill encysted dinos, never seen any studies on this. I would use bleach or peroxide in the right concentration as those are proven methods.

Right. Bleach is hands down the best sterilizer an average hobbyist can get their hands on.
Just don't expect it to solve your problems for you.
BTW, 100ppm free chlorine....I'm bad at chem (any help?), but I calc'd that at 3.6 mL of standard clorox (6% sodium hypochlorite) per Liter of water.
That's assuming I interpret "free chlorine" right. And I didn't take into account chlorine that might get neutralized upon addition to seawater. I have no idea how to estimate that. But regardless, it's a lot of bleach to kill stuff that'll almost certainly get reintroduced later.

 

[Beardo]

Right. Bleach is hands down the best sterilizer an average hobbyist can get their hands on.
Just don't expect it to solve your problems for you.
BTW, 100ppm free chlorine....I'm bad at chem (any help?), but I calc'd that at 3.6 mL of standard clorox (6% sodium hypochlorite) per Liter of water.
That's assuming I interpret "free chlorine" right. And I didn't take into account chlorine that might get neutralized upon addition to seawater. I have no idea how to estimate that. But regardless, it's a lot of bleach to kill stuff that'll almost certainly get reintroduced later.

Here is a simple dilution calculator for chlorine.
https://www.publichealthontario.ca/en/ServicesAndTools/Tools/Pages/Dilution-Calculator.aspx

Free chlorine is the amount of chlorine that is available as an oxidizing agent. If you add to a clean system then free chlorine and total chlorine residuals are equal. As free chlorine is used up or combined the free chlorine residual drops but total chlorine residual stays the same as total chlorine equals free chlorine plus combined chlorine.
Also to ensure cysts are killed you need closer to 1,000 ppm free residual. Would also add additional bleach during the sterilization process as some will be used.
In addition, I would drain the saltwater first and refill with fresh water before adding bleach. Bleach is more effective at lower pH and you would want to remove as much of the organics in the system beforehand.

But I agree, this only addresses the immediate concern and does not address reintroduction.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Guys, I'm not looking to add chems in small doses. I'm in other words tired of battling dinos. The amount I've spent on battling dinos would buy a reboot 3 times over. So instead of spiraling in balancing acts, I'm just taking steps to sterilize the tank and equipment for later use. Yes dinos are found everywhere, we get that but this to reduce numbers and potential toxins.

 

[angusii]

I have a question about what is happening when my sand is darkening the longer the lights are on. Is it the dinos reproducing/dividing or floating dinos aggregating? Basically I am siphoning the sand right before lights out. When the lights come on the sand has a few spots of light orange that progressively gets darker.

 

[mcarroll]

I have a question about what is happening when my sand is darkening the longer the lights are on. Is it the dinos reproducing/dividing or floating dinos aggregating? Basically I am siphoning the sand right before lights out. When the lights come on the sand has a few spots of light orange that progressively gets darker.

Hard to be sure from that description, but maybe.

Try to get a sample of it into a small container with water that you can then seal and shake up really well. Well enough to break up the sample into tiny bits. If you then leave it alone, dino's should regroup. Most other things won't.

There's a much more comprehensive confirmation test linked on the main page.

Also, Selecting a microscope would be recommended if you don't already have one. Several of us are getting by well enough on a $10-$15 toy scope....lets you view up to 1200x. Good starter....let's you get your feet wet before plunking down real money, and it does really work!

 

[angusii]

Hard to be sure from that description, but maybe.

Try to get a sample of it into a small container with water that you can then seal and shake up really well. Well enough to break up the sample into tiny bits. If you then leave it alone, dino's should regroup. Most other things won't.

There's a much more comprehensive confirmation test linked on the main page.

Also, Selecting a microscope would be recommended if you don't already have one. Several of us are getting by well enough on a $10-$15 toy scope....lets you view up to 1200x. Good starter....let's you get your feet wet before plunking down real money, and it does really work!

Microscope arrives today. I have done the coffee filter test so am pretty sure it is dino’s. I was more curious about what is happening as the sand/orange gets darker. Is it predominantly reproduction or just the dinos "reassembling"?

 

[mcarroll]

Microscope arrives today. I have done the coffee filter test so am pretty sure it is dino’s. I was more curious about what is happening as the sand/orange gets darker. Is it predominantly reproduction or just the dinos "reassembling"?

Hard to say the percentage, but I suspect more regrouping.

They are definitely inclined to group up and slime over for protection as soon as lights come up for the day!

 

[angusii]

Can anybody help with id?

 

[Beardo]

Can anybody help with id?

large cell amphidinium

 

[Denisk]

can anyone help me to id these two photos?

I know they aren’t great so I do apologize if they aren’t good enough to make a good judgment. However I randomly had a usb microscope and did the best I could.

I was pointed into this thread since I seem to have been having some sort of issue with my tank. I don’t have any kind of sps dying. My sps actually have great color but I’ve been told that I need to focus on my N and P as they aren’t really showing up in my test kit. Some people are saying to feed more so you you don’t want N and P to fall to zero but if I feed to much I end up getting a bacterial bloom. Some of the photo makes me wonder if it’s really just cyano? My snails and conch snail don’t seem to come near the cyano and the diatom and or Dino thats on the sand bed.

 

[Sebae]

Hello everyone,

Would anyone be willing to help me ID these? I took them back in August and never posted as I thought I beat them with a blackout. I was wrong. I've been having a lot of trouble getting coralline to grow or anything else really and losing SPS from a slow paling to death process. I'm thinking the dinos are out-competing just about everything?

 

[Beardo]

Hello everyone,

Would anyone be willing to help me ID these? I took them back in August and never posted as I thought I beat them with a blackout. I was wrong. I've been having a lot of trouble getting coralline to grow or anything else really and losing SPS from a slow paling to death process. I'm thinking the dinos are out-competing just about everything?

Those are Ostreopsis

 

[Sebae]

Those are Ostreopsis

I was leaning towards that myself. Thank you. Has this thread moved any closer to a general trend when dealing with Ostreopsis? I've been working through the thread but it is dense and unclear as to what I should try. I added 35 lbs of live rock direct from the Gulf yesterday and I'm in FL so it is pretty fresh. Today the rocks are covered in dinos. I'm hoping it does something to help outcompete them...

 

[Beardo]

I was leaning towards that myself. Thank you. Has this thread moved any closer to a general trend when dealing with Ostreopsis? I've been working through the thread but it is dense and unclear as to what I should try. I added 35 lbs of live rock direct from the Gulf yesterday and I'm in FL so it is pretty fresh. Today the rocks are covered in dinos. I'm hoping it does something to help outcompete them...

Ostreopsis, as bad as they are, seem to be pretty susceptible to properly sized UV. They were one of the dinos I was dealing with for a long time. I ran a UV unit and didn't have much success, so initially I was pretty skeptical on their effectiveness. Once I upsized my unit, they, along with some of the other species, were gone pretty quickly. The conclusion on sizing is around 2 gallons per watt with slow flow. UV to knock them back along with establishing and maintaining biodiversity is the direction I would recommend.

 

[Beardo]

can anyone help me to id these two photos?

I know they aren’t great so I do apologize if they aren’t good enough to make a good judgment. However I randomly had a usb microscope and did the best I could.

I was pointed into this thread since I seem to have been having some sort of issue with my tank. I don’t have any kind of sps dying. My sps actually have great color but I’ve been told that I need to focus on my N and P as they aren’t really showing up in my test kit. Some people are saying to feed more so you you don’t want N and P to fall to zero but if I feed to much I end up getting a bacterial bloom. Some of the photo makes me wonder if it’s really just cyano? My snails and conch snail don’t seem to come near the cyano and the diatom and or Dino thats on the sand bed.

I personally can't give an ID from the pictures, there just isn't enough detail. Bust based on shape, I would say you are dealing with something besides (or in addition to) cyano and diatoms. Is there movement of the cells?

 

[Denisk]

I personally can't give an ID from the pictures, there just isn't enough detail. Bust based on shape, I would say you are dealing with something besides (or in addition to) cyano and diatoms. Is there movement of the cells?

Thanks and yes lots of movement.