Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[reeferfoxx]

Could that be how Dino X works? Or are we to assume it's chemical? They say Dino X doesnt work with Amphidinium.

Correction. It doesn't work with Ostreopsis.

 

[taricha]

Could that be how Dino X works? Or are we to assume it's chemical? They say Dino X doesnt work with Amphidinium.

I've had that thought. Randy, do we even need to know what the chemical is?
Can we just harvest dictyota, pulverize, filter out the pulp, and pour it in?

(BTW, I've heard users definitively say dino-x was super effective vs amphidinium, and others say that it definitively made amphidinium worse. I'd love to see tests either way. )

 

[Reefer1978]

I've had that thought. Randy, do we even need to know what the chemical is?
Can we just harvest dictyota, pulverize, filter out the pulp, and pour it in?

(BTW, I've heard users definitively say dino-x was super effective vs amphidinium, and others say that it definitively made amphidinium worse. I'd love to see tests either way. )

Pulverizing might release other nutrients/chemicals. We’ll want high(ish) doses compared to how much algae itself produces, huge amount of “other” nutrients might cause unexpected results.

 

[Beardo]

Regarding algae as a defense against dinos, there are species (ostriopsis, prorocentrum, coolia to a lesser extent) that growing on macroalgae is their main thing they do in nature.

I've read this a few places as well but don't recall if they mentioned any specific macroalgae species.

(BTW, I've heard users definitively say dino-x was super effective vs amphidinium, and others say that it definitively made amphidinium worse. I'd love to see tests either way. )

I have been testing out Dino-X. First put a drop on a slide with both small and large cell amphidinium and saw movement almost instantly stop. Then added 2 drops to my sample cup and when I checked under the scope amphidinium again appeared to be dead. Followed this up with treatment on my 50g cube. I had moved some corals from main tank to this tank after performing low salinity dips and QT. (Interestingly low salinity dips killed Ostreopsis, Prorocentrum and Coolia but not amphidinium. Later found that dip in straight DI water killed the amphidinium). Took 8 doses of Dino-X over 16 day to kill the amphidinium. Checked every few days during treatment and could see the the number of dead cells increase and live cells decrease.
I also just complete a 9 dose treatment on my 270g tank with same results. Also found another species of small dino, possibly another subspecies of amphidinium or gyrodinium and it killed them as well. Found a few Coolia, either remaining from the UV or from cysts, and Dino-X had no visible impact on them.
The downside though is the dino-x also took out or damaged the majority of the sps I had remaining, ticked off some of my lps pretty significantly, killed a serpent star and a tuxedo urchin and I'm sure did a number on other microorganisms. My tank was pretty wrecked already though.
Took about a month to see surviving corals in the 50g start to recover.
As a note: Neither tank I treated had sand as I removed the sandbed on the 270 during my battle and didn't add sand to the 50 when I set it up. Not sure how a sandbed would impact the results.

I continued to keep phosphates and nitrates elevated during treatment (actually went up on its own as algae died off) and will continue down that path as the tanks (hopefully) recover.

 

[reeferfoxx]

I also just complete a 9 dose treatment on my 270g tank with same results. Also found another species of small dino, possibly another subspecies of amphidinium or gyrodinium and it killed them as well. Found a few Coolia, either remaining from the UV or from cysts, and Dino-X had no visible impact on them.

Were you running UV during dino X treatment?

 

[Beardo]

Were you running UV during dino X treatment?

No, UV had to be stopped.

 

[reeferfoxx]

No, UV had to be stopped.

Oh ok. Just making sure.

 

[mcarroll]

I've read this a few places as well but don't recall if they mentioned any specific macroalgae species.

+1

I know I had one or two on this topic as well in my drafts...can't recall if I hit publish or not. Will check.

I may not have simply because I've seen dino's grow over and co-habitate with macros too often to look at it as a cure within our framework. Perhaps some algae extract might work out....anything is possible in the future!

Until then...

 

[reeferfoxx]

Ok so this is strange. Two nights ago NO3 = 0.50ppm. I've dosed 5ml kno3 last two nights. I tested no3 just now. 1st test reads 0.50. I thought maybe a test error as this kit expires in Jan '18. So I opened a new NO3 test kit and test #2 reads 0. Went ahead and tested po4 with only a small drop from 0.147 to 0.139. Any thoughts?

 

[reeferfoxx]

Got on the scope again. Sorry for the camera shakes. I think i have parkinson's disease ;Wacky

Check this out though. These dinos are almost attacking the ciliates(Ithink thats what they are) or at least riding them like rodeo bulls.

 

[taricha]

Pulverizing might release other nutrients/chemicals. We’ll want high(ish) doses compared to how much algae itself produces, huge amount of “other” nutrients might cause unexpected results.

Also Dictyota does the spore release reproductive thing. That would be an obstacle too.

I've read this a few places as well but don't recall if they mentioned any specific macroalgae species.

I may not have simply because I've seen dino's grow over and co-habitate with macros too often to look at it as a cure within our framework.

Yeah, the toxic benthic dinos grow on all kinds of stuff in the wild...
One paper found ostreopsis, prorocentrum and coolia on ... "Dominant macroalgae included representatives of the genera Cladostephus, Corallina, Cystoseira, Dictyota, Gelidium, Plocamium and Stypocaulon."
This paper found Ostreopsis, prorocentrum and coolia ... "the three taxa can grow on a variety of macroalgal substrates: 34 taxa belonging to the fleshy, bushy, flat and erect morpho-functional groups. Some macroalgal species were correlated with either high or low abundance of the studied dinophycean taxa and could therefore enhance or hinder their blooming."
And these guys got their ostreopsis, prorocentrum and coolia from a species of seagrass.

 

[taricha]

Check this out though. These dinos are almost attacking the ciliates(Ithink thats what they are) or at least riding them like rodeo bulls.

That's a nice video. It's probably a nematode. And I've seen live wiggling copepods before totally enveloped in dinos/mucus, but never watched them get covered up. This video you can see the mechanism how it could happen. It looks to me like the thrashing may be tangling the nematode into the mucus matrix of the dinos. But then again the dinos clinging to it almost looks intentionally predatory. Wonder if the thrashing causes some group response. I've never seen them look like a pack of hunters before. that's nuts.

 

[reeferfoxx]

That's a nice video. It's probably a nematode. And I've seen live wiggling copepods before totally enveloped in dinos/mucus, but never watched them get covered up. This video you can see the mechanism how it could happen. It looks to me like the thrashing may be tangling the nematode into the mucus matrix of the dinos. But then again the dinos clinging to it almost looks intentionally predatory. Wonder if the thrashing causes some group response. I've never seen them look like a pack of hunters before. that's nuts.

That was a small nematode then. I later found a larger one that looked similar but with a more brown interior. However, didn't look like the nematodes were eating any dinos. Anyway, the larger one was clearly being ganged up on and would coil and uncoil like a snake and sometimes almost get itself into a knot like shape. The response was the same though. Lot of thrashing about. Kind of sad really.

 

[mcarroll]

Ok so this is strange. Two nights ago NO3 = 0.50ppm. I've dosed 5ml kno3 last two nights. I tested no3 just now. 1st test reads 0.50. I thought maybe a test error as this kit expires in Jan '18. So I opened a new NO3 test kit and test #2 reads 0. Went ahead and tested po4 with only a small drop from 0.147 to 0.139. Any thoughts?

Half a ppm and zero ppm aren't all that far apart.

A tiny reduction in P does suggest at least a limit on nitrates....in agreement with both NO3 kits, more or less.

I've never seen them look like a pack of hunters before. that's nuts.

Life gets rough for the misc. heterotroph in the food chain! ;Dead

 

[reeferfoxx]

Here you go. Like this.

 

[mcarroll]

Wow

 

[reeferfoxx]

Wow

No you're suppose to be like, "this is good foxx" "this is a step in the right direction, foxx" "I think you almost have this outbreak beat, foxx" "Keep up the good work!" ;Drowning;Inpain;Dead

 

[mcarroll]

That's good camerawork, foxx! Give yourself a break, foxx!

The fact that you have a fight to witness is all-good. It's when you get the shot where it's just columns and columns of dino's and nothing but dino's marching right down main street that you can start to worry.

 

[Reefer1978]

Ok so this is strange. Two nights ago NO3 = 0.50ppm. I've dosed 5ml kno3 last two nights. I tested no3 just now. 1st test reads 0.50. I thought maybe a test error as this kit expires in Jan '18. So I opened a new NO3 test kit and test #2 reads 0. Went ahead and tested po4 with only a small drop from 0.147 to 0.139. Any thoughts?

Which NO3 kit? 2 5ml doses is a lot - should be detectable.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Which NO3 kit? 2 5ml doses is a lot - should be detectable.

Thats what I was thinking! I'm using salifert.