Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[saltyhog]

Good to know. Prorocentrum here as well. They really want to cling to the sandbed! I've tried the below so far. Next up at bat is going to be silicate dosing,

Tried so far:

Blackout
Phyto
MB7
Dosing Neonitro and Neophos (Now consistently at 15ppm+ N and 0.1ppm + P
Siphon/Stir Sand (Always makes it worse)
UV (Green Killing Machine)

Even for normally UV sensitive types of dinos GKM UV don't often work. Most likely because the built in pump has too fast of flow. Also as you found, siphoning/manual removal don't work.

Good job on the nutrients!

Water glass is what I find most helpful for LCA, SCA and Prorocentrum. 0.2 ml per 15 gallons of system volume daily is the best dose to start with IME. Be sure to mix it with a couple of hundred cc's of RO/DI and pour slowly in a high flow area as it's very alkaline and will precipitate badly.

 

[BetterJake]

Even for normally UV sensitive types of dinos GKM UV don't often work. Most likely because the built in pump has too fast of flow. Also as you found, siphoning/manual removal don't work.

Good job on the nutrients!

Water glass is what I find most helpful for LCA, SCA and Prorocentrum. 0.2 ml per 15 gallons of system volume daily is the best dose to start with IME. Be sure to mix it with a couple of hundred cc's of RO/DI and pour slowly in a high flow area as it's very alkaline and will precipitate badly.

I already have a bottle of SpongExcel. What concentration should I be aiming for? I don't have a test kit for Silica.

The bottle mentions that 1ML increase 1 gallon of water by 4PPM

 

[saltyhog]

I already have a bottle of SpongExcel. What concentration should I be aiming for? I don't have a test kit for Silica.

The bottle mentions that 1ML increase 1 gallon of water by 4PPM

Water glass is easily available on Amazon. Unfortunately SpongExcel is only 4% so unless your tank is very small it's not a solution. Also the dosing recommendations they state there rarely seem to be achieved for whatever reason. We are aiming at about 2ppm per day so it would take 1/2 ml per gallon of tank water. That means that large bottle would last 2 days on a 125 gallon tank. That will get cost prohibitive in a hurry.

Water glass is 36-41%. It needs to be mixed with 200-250 cc of RO/DI water and poured slowly in a high flow area. Doseage is 0.2 ml/15 gallons of water volume.

This is a good source of reagent grade water glass. Amazon product

Lastly, unless you live in Europe where the Colombo test kit is available there really isn't a useable test kit here in the US/Canada. Fortunately it's not a big deal as silicate has not proven toxic even at massive over doses. It could prolong the desired diatom bloom but that's the worst thing that should happen.

 

[BetterJake]

Water glass is easily available on Amazon. Unfortunately SpongExcel is only 4% so unless your tank is very small it's not a solution. Also the dosing recommendations they state there rarely seem to be achieved for whatever reason. We are aiming at about 2ppm per day so it would take 1/2 ml per gallon of tank water. That means that large bottle would last 2 days on a 125 gallon tank. That will get cost prohibitive in a hurry.

Water glass is 36-41%. It needs to be mixed with 200-250 cc of RO/DI water and poured slowly in a high flow area. Doseage is 0.2 ml/15 gallons of water volume.

This is a good source of reagent grade water glass. Amazon product

Lastly, unless you live in Europe where the Colombo test kit is available there really isn't a useable test kit here in the US/Canada. Fortunately it's not a big deal as silicate has not proven toxic even at massive over doses. It could prolong the desired diatom bloom but that's the worst thing that should happen.

It's a reefer 250 and with sand and rock probably about 50 - 55 gallons of total water volume. I will likely be picking up the solution you linked as well.

Should I buy a test kit? Or just dose at 2PPM each day?

 

[Stang67]

Water glass is easily available on Amazon. Unfortunately SpongExcel is only 4% so unless your tank is very small it's not a solution. Also the dosing recommendations they state there rarely seem to be achieved for whatever reason. We are aiming at about 2ppm per day so it would take 1/2 ml per gallon of tank water. That means that large bottle would last 2 days on a 125 gallon tank. That will get cost prohibitive in a hurry.

Water glass is 36-41%. It needs to be mixed with 200-250 cc of RO/DI water and poured slowly in a high flow area. Doseage is 0.2 ml/15 gallons of water volume.

This is a good source of reagent grade water glass. Amazon product

Lastly, unless you live in Europe where the Colombo test kit is available there really isn't a useable test kit here in the US/Canada. Fortunately it's not a big deal as silicate has not proven toxic even at massive over doses. It could prolong the desired diatom bloom but that's the worst thing that should happen.

I have found silicate is affecting my alk. I stopped dosing for a day because it got up to 10. Going to see where we are at and start adding it again.

 

[saltyhog]

It's a reefer 250 and with sand and rock probably about 50 - 55 gallons of total water volume. I will likely be picking up the solution you linked as well.

Should I buy a test kit? Or just dose at 2PPM each day?

Unfortunately if you live in the US or Canada there are no useful test kits for silicates. Not needed anyway as there is no toxicity with silicates even in massive over doses. About 0.6-0.7 ml /day is the recommended dose for tanks the size of yours.

 

[saltyhog]

I have found silicate is affecting my alk. I stopped dosing for a day because it got up to 10. Going to see where we are at and start adding it again.

That is not uncommon. If it becomes problematic you can do a water change with a good low iron salt. You could also decrease your dose a little though it may delay your diatom bloom.

 

[Bitcoin Reefer]

I

I agree 100% with the natural approach. I was at wits end with Dino. I went to my LFS, Reef to Rift in Hatfield, PA and talked to Scott. He told me to just let my phosphate rise up a little bit, it was potentially close to zero with the range of error in the tests. I let it rise to 0.05-0.08 and I raised my mag to 1500 and it disappeared in about 2 days.

Wow interesting. How long did you have dinos for? I’ve had for about 1.5-2 months and my phosphate was up most of that time, but did hit 0 couple or few times. It might have been low leading up to that. I was on vacation until 10/16/22 and when I tested NO3 and PO4 were 0,0. Room mate didn’t care about tank much lol.

the reason I ask is because I had my phosphates up from .05-.11 for about a month and still had Dino’s during that time. I had restively low magnesium though ranging 1130-1200 during that period though.

it’s kind of crazy all the recommendations we have for Dino. Every day I find a new strategy. Trying to figure out why I incorporate. Some? All lol?

Raise phosphates
UV
Carbon dosing to encourage bacteria growth
Silica to encourage
Add bacteria, MB7
Add phyto
Add copepods
Snails
H202 at night with 10% only blue lights
Raise phosphate and high magnesium?

kind of thinking about using most of them. Most don’t really contradict I think?

anyways below is my readings for the last 1.75 months

 

[dcal1985]

I'm a member of the club nobody wants to be in. Can anyone help me with an ID?

One cool part is that I watched a copepod eating these guys earlier (photo 4.)

 

[DarkReefer]

anyways below is my readings for the last 1.75 months

Is that a self entered chart or something you've downloaded using an app or something?

Edit:
Feel like growth of the Dinos MAY be slowing.
Been running UV nearly non stop since Saturday (apart from last night for 4 hours after I dosed MB7 for the first time).
Felt like there was a bit of an improvement on that alone. I've been using a turkey baster to blow the dinos off of everything daily (twice a day when I can) and to stir up the sand and get everything in the water column. I generally wait until lights are nearly or already out for this so they hopefully stay suspended for longer and hopefully get sucked out into the Filtration and/or UV.

This morning I attacked the rockwork with a dedicated tank toothbrush (was new and never used prior to being used in/around tank fwiw). Here's hoping things continue in the right direction.

 

[BetterJake]

I

Wow interesting. How long did you have dinos for? I’ve had for about 1.5-2 months and my phosphate was up most of that time, but did hit 0 couple or few times. It might have been low leading up to that. I was on vacation until 10/16/22 and when I tested NO3 and PO4 were 0,0. Room mate didn’t care about tank much lol.

the reason I ask is because I had my phosphates up from .05-.11 for about a month and still had Dino’s during that time. I had restively low magnesium though ranging 1130-1200 during that period though.

it’s kind of crazy all the recommendations we have for Dino. Every day I find a new strategy. Trying to figure out why I incorporate. Some? All lol?

Raise phosphates
UV
Carbon dosing to encourage bacteria growth
Silica to encourage
Add bacteria, MB7
Add phyto
Add copepods
Snails
H202 at night with 10% only blue lights
Raise phosphate and high magnesium?

kind of thinking about using most of them. Most don’t really contradict I think?

anyways below is my readings for the last 1.75 months

The very first step, above all else, is getting Nitrate and Phosphate above 0 and keeping it there. If they continue to bottom out, you are going to run in circles.

Nothing else is going to matter if you can't get nutrients up.

 

[BetterJake]

Dosing silicates next. Will update this thread

 

[BetterJake]

Unfortunately if you live in the US or Canada there are no useful test kits for silicates. Not needed anyway as there is no toxicity with silicates even in massive over doses. About 0.6-0.7 ml /day is the recommended dose for tanks the size of yours.

Great, thanks!

 

[Bitcoin Reefer]

Is that a self entered chart or something you've downloaded using an app or something?

Edit:
Feel like growth of the Dinos MAY be slowing.
Been running UV nearly non stop since Saturday (apart from last night for 4 hours after I dosed MB7 for the first time).
Felt like there was a bit of an improvement on that alone. I've been using a turkey baster to blow the dinos off of everything daily (twice a day when I can) and to stir up the sand and get everything in the water column. I generally wait until lights are nearly or already out for this so they hopefully stay suspended for longer and hopefully get sucked out into the Filtration and/or UV.

This morning I attacked the rockwork with a dedicated tank toothbrush (was new and never used prior to being used in/around tank fwiw). Here's hoping things continue in the right direction.

Self made google sheet which I just fill in manually each day lol. I also dose Calcium, Alkalinity, and All-For-Reef daily. I'd like to get some more automated dosing, and data tracking at some point, but thus far I feel like manual keeps me closer to the problems. (Side note if anyone has recommendations let me know) 300g mixed reef 16 months old.

 

[DarkReefer]

Self made google sheet which I just fill in manually each day lol. I also dose Calcium, Alkalinity, and All-For-Reef daily. I'd like to get some more automated dosing, and data tracking at some point, but thus far I feel like manual keeps me closer to the problems. (Side note if anyone has recommendations let me know) 300g mixed reef 16 months old.

Wow, dedicated!
Are you also manually testing daily or just reading off of an app/equipment that is monitoring these ?

Would be nice to have a log like this.
I do, do it with mine but I only test once a week or every other week.

(need to actually try do it tonight so that way I've got as close to a base line as possible now that I've started dosing MB7).

 

[Bitcoin Reefer]

Wow, dedicated!
Are you also manually testing daily or just reading off of an app/equipment that is monitoring these ?

Would be nice to have a log like this.
I do, do it with mine but I only test once a week or every other week.

(need to actually try do it tonight so that way I've got as close to a base line as possible now that I've started dosing MB7).

I test on average maybe every 5 days when things are relatively stable. I record any time I test, and it’s all manual with Hannah checkers etc. I’d like to get automated testing and dosing though, but that’s a whole nother can of worms lol. You can see exactly when I test on the spreadsheet. Blanks means I didn’t test. If it’s filled in it means I did test. I’d like to get it to where I test only once a month, but my parameters haven’t been quite stable enough just yet. When I first started testing it was every day.

 

[Bitcoin Reefer]

I'm a member of the club nobody wants to be in. Can anyone help me with an ID?

One cool part is that I watched a copepod eating these guys earlier (photo 4.)

Cool to hear you saw copepod eating dinos lol. I just bought a bottle today. I actually have tons of copepods and amphipods, but oddly never see the tigger pods which are the main ones I dosed tank with early on. I see a bunch of species that I don’t even remember if I ever dosed lol. I wonder if tigger pods don’t reproduce well in aquarium.

as for your dino ID, maybe LCA, but hard to tell from the photo. @taricha may know.

 

[DarkReefer]

I test on average maybe every 5 days when things are relatively stable. I record any time I test, and it’s all manual with Hannah checkers etc. I’d like to get automated testing and dosing though, but that’s a whole nother can of worms lol. You can see exactly when I test on the spreadsheet. Blanks means I didn’t test. If it’s filled in it means I did test. I’d like to get it to where I test only once a month, but my parameters haven’t been quite stable enough just yet. When I first started testing it was every day.

Ah yes I see it now, are they also including the daily dosing numbers for Cal/mag/alk then.
Maybe that's why I assumed it was being done daily but looking at it a bit more I understand it better.


So I did some testing last night before dosing another round of MB7.
Results came in as below;
Temp 25.9c
pH 8
Nitrate 25
Phosphate 0.061 (dropped at bit since a week ago at 0.110)
Salinity 1.023 (dropped a bit since a week ago at 1.024)
Alk 7.8 (down 0.2 from week ago)
Cal 420 (holding)
Mag 1275 (down from 1320 a week ago).

I think the salinity drop may have come from when I installed the UV. As there was a bit extra for the water to pass through I believe the ATO topped it up a bunch.

Should I be doing a water change on the weekend? (it's been 3-4 weeks now I think).
Dinos definitely seem like they're still about, possibly slightly less aggressive but I don't really want to give them a boost by changing it out if I don't have to.

 

[BetterJake]

I'm dosing Silica to induce a diatom bloom. Would it be counter productive to also dose h2o2?

 

[taricha]

I'm dosing Silica to induce a diatom bloom. Would it be counter productive to also dose h2o2?

Maybe not. It's hard to know exactly what is most affected by peroxide. You may be able to grow diatoms just fine at conventional peroxide doses. Let us know what You observe if you do try it.