Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[chema]

true, but across multiple references and different growing conditions - our problem dinos tend to have growth rates close to the values quoted in the study above. Their strategy of toxins and mucus favors a different kind of existence than the fast-bloomers.
(One might reasonably speculate that large cell amphidinium with low toxins and little mucus might be closer to the diatom end of the spectrum on growth rate.)

That's one of the reasons that many find nutrient addition helps shift a system away from our problem dinos - they don't really reproduce much faster with additions of nutrients, while there are a lot of other organisms that can.

I noticed that you tried to keep a 1:1 ratio between Si and N. The authors of the report on the elimination of Amphidinium by using diatoms also tried that ratio (and they suggest was one of the keys for the success). Did you find it useful? At the regular nitrate concentrations in our tanks it would require a lot of Si.

 

[taricha]

I noticed that you tried to keep a 1:1 ratio between Si and N. The authors of the report on the elimination of Amphidinium by using diatoms also tried that ratio (and they suggest was one of the keys for the success). Did you find it useful? At the regular nitrate concentrations in our tanks it would require a lot of Si.

I based it off of the paper, but no. No reason that ratio is important enough to apply to our tanks. The idea was that Si>N helped ensure Si would remain available even if N became limiting - rather than the other way around.
But the same can be done with monitored additions rather than trying to add a ton of Si to match a modest NO3 level.

In my tank, NO3 becomes depleted - so ratio idea only applies if I dose NO3 too. Better to just aim for consistently available Si, IMO.

 

[ScottB]

While I am certain this is dinos, I wanted to get another opinion. The past week I have been working on eliminating this crud from my tank. I have been doing the following the last three days:

• Keeping lights low with no whites and lowest blue (save for the pictures)
• Feeding frozen everyday to help raise Phosphate
• Dosing 1.4 ml of H2O2 before work (lights come on at 4:30 pm I leave at 6:30 am)

I am noticing daily less on the sand, but still getting this film. I took the following picture of a sample at work under a microscope. The cells were moving around and tumbling. I am assuming they are dinos, they almost look like Prorocentrum to me.



This is what the tank looks like right when lights come on:



This is the same spot 4 hours later:


Here is a video of the “slime”

Parameters from last three days, tank is 5 months old and 14 gallons kept at 78 F:

Date​	Ph​	Nitrate​	Phosphate​	Magnesium​	Calcium​	KH​
3/6/2022​	8.2​	2 ppm​	0.0 ppm​	1450 ppm​	450 ppm​	10 dKH​
3/9/2022​	8.2​	10 ppm​	0.01 ppm​	1450 ppm​	430 ppm​	9.6 dKH​

I know that’s a lot of stuff, but I guess my worry is if I am truly fighting dinos, or if I’m messing up. I do have liquid Phosphate on the way to help target raise Phosphate.

Hard to ID at the level of magnification, but yes, very likely dinos. Check out the videos linked in the Dinoflagellate Identification Guide thread to try and match up the shape and SWIM PATTERN.

Start by raising PO4. Your surface competitors are starving. For more detail, you can read up on next steps in this article. Can also help with insomnia.

A Dinoflagellate Treatment Guide

As the title suggests, this is intended as a short guide on what to do when you suspect dinoflagellates are trying to overtake your system. It is an attempt to boil down the protocols discussed across 11,000 posts in this "Are you Tired" thread...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[PandorasChalk]

Hard to ID at the level of magnification, but yes, very likely dinos. Check out the videos linked in the Dinoflagellate Identification Guide thread to try and match up the shape and SWIM PATTERN.

Start by raising PO4. Your surface competitors are starving. For more detail, you can read up on next steps in this article. Can also help with insomnia.

A Dinoflagellate Treatment Guide

As the title suggests, this is intended as a short guide on what to do when you suspect dinoflagellates are trying to overtake your system. It is an attempt to boil down the protocols discussed across 11,000 posts in this "Are you Tired" thread...

www.reef2reef.com

With my Phosphate I have Microbacter 7 coming, so that will help. I may get a Silicate testing kit and start dosing Silicate as well. My corals are NOT happy, although I suspect that is the almost 0 Phosphate. (Funny enough the corals doing great are my chalice and my giant two headed torch, neither of them seem to care!)

 

[ScottB]

With my Phosphate I have Microbacter 7 coming, so that will help. I may get a Silicate testing kit and start dosing Silicate as well. My corals are NOT happy, although I suspect that is the almost 0 Phosphate. (Funny enough the corals doing great are my chalice and my giant two headed torch, neither of them seem to care!)

Some corals are more effective than others in capturing scarce PO4.

 

[PandorasChalk]

Some corals are more effective than others in capturing scarce PO4.

The LFS said when I initially had higher PO4 that the chalice is great at grabbing PO4, and it’s lived up to the hype. Thing is loving life right now!

 

[echopiece]

I've managed to increase my PO4 to 0.02 - 0.04 and my NO3 to 5 - 10 for the past week and a half and yet the dinos are still out in vengance. I have a bottle of Si arriving tomorrow and will try to get a diatom bloom. Unfortunately, I am not able to get my hands on a microscope yet so the actual type of my dinos is still a mystery (tried dinoX about a month ago, but seemed to have made the situation worse). I'm very concerened as all of my SPS corals are just covered in dinos and are bleaching out (even after blasting them twice a day with a baster). Looks like I'm going to lose 80-90% of my corals at this point.

I'm thinking that I still need to stay the course and continue with dosing PO4 and NO3 as 1.5 weeks is still kind of early to tell? I'm also dosing microbacter7 once a week. I've been reefing for over 10 yrs and never had anything like this, it's very discouraging.

 

[saltyhog]

I've managed to increase my PO4 to 0.02 - 0.04 and my NO3 to 5 - 10 for the past week and a half and yet the dinos are still out in vengance. I have a bottle of Si arriving tomorrow and will try to get a diatom bloom. Unfortunately, I am not able to get my hands on a microscope yet so the actual type of my dinos is still a mystery (tried dinoX about a month ago, but seemed to have made the situation worse). I'm very concerened as all of my SPS corals are just covered in dinos and are bleaching out (even after blasting them twice a day with a baster). Looks like I'm going to lose 80-90% of my corals at this point.

I'm thinking that I still need to stay the course and continue with dosing PO4 and NO3 as 1.5 weeks is still kind of early to tell? I'm also dosing microbacter7 once a week. I've been reefing for over 10 yrs and never had anything like this, it's very discouraging.

That doesn't sound like any of the species of dinos that respond well to silicate dosing. Do you have pictures of what it looks like in your tank (under white lighting would be best). Are you running activated carbon?

Some libraries where I live have microscopes that you can use.

 

[ScottB]

I've managed to increase my PO4 to 0.02 - 0.04 and my NO3 to 5 - 10 for the past week and a half and yet the dinos are still out in vengance. I have a bottle of Si arriving tomorrow and will try to get a diatom bloom. Unfortunately, I am not able to get my hands on a microscope yet so the actual type of my dinos is still a mystery (tried dinoX about a month ago, but seemed to have made the situation worse). I'm very concerened as all of my SPS corals are just covered in dinos and are bleaching out (even after blasting them twice a day with a baster). Looks like I'm going to lose 80-90% of my corals at this point.

I'm thinking that I still need to stay the course and continue with dosing PO4 and NO3 as 1.5 weeks is still kind of early to tell? I'm also dosing microbacter7 once a week. I've been reefing for over 10 yrs and never had anything like this, it's very discouraging.

Sorry to hear about your SPS losses. It hurts; I know.
I would venture to say that the dinos on them are merely scavenging the dead tissue. They are like maggots on the reef. The tissue necrosis was more likely caused by insufficient nutrition some number of weeks ago. People have also reported some bad outcomes with Dino-X. These days, I don't trust anything that says it "kills all types of algae". And then to market that it also kills dinos, well, what does it not kill? Just does not sound reef safe to me.

 

[echopiece]

That doesn't sound like any of the species of dinos that respond well to silicate dosing. Do you have pictures of what it looks like in your tank (under white lighting would be best). Are you running activated carbon?

Some libraries where I live have microscopes that you can use.

I’ll take a few pics when I get home later today. I have carbon running passively right now. I’m actually going to change it out with fresh carbon today.

 

[echopiece]

That doesn't sound like any of the species of dinos that respond well to silicate dosing. Do you have pictures of what it looks like in your tank (under white lighting would be best). Are you running activated carbon?

Some libraries where I live have microscopes that you can use.

That doesn't sound like any of the species of dinos that respond well to silicate dosing. Do you have pictures of what it looks like in your tank (under white lighting would be best). Are you running activated carbon?

Some libraries where I live have microscopes that you can use.

Here are a few pics. The tissue necrosis seems to be from the Dino’s covering the corals (smothering them) as they were fairly healthy when they were getting covered.

Any other recommendations on how to combat this? Should I just keep my nutrients up. I turned my skimmer off last week. Looks like I’m seeing cyano growth as well now. I almost want to do a water change, but fear that will make things worse.

 

[saltyhog]

Here are a few pics. The tissue necrosis seems to be from the Dino’s covering the corals (smothering them) as they were fairly healthy when they were getting covered.

Any other recommendations on how to combat this? Should I just keep my nutrients up. I turned my skimmer off last week. Looks like I’m seeing cyano growth as well now. I almost want to do a water change, but fear that will make things worse.

That' looks like ostreopsis unfortunately. It's not smothering your coral it's dying because of the toxins. The dinos then take advantage of the open territory and colonize the dead coral skeleton. Trivial, as your coral is still dead but it helps to understand what's going on.

I would love to confirm microscopically if possible. This one requires UV to get rid of and I would hate to see you go to that expense without us being sure that's the correct ID.

If you do buy a UV, DO NOT go by the manufacturer's recommendations for size and flow. UV needs to be 1 watt/3 gallons display volume and flow needs to be about 2x display volume/hour. It's best if plumbed from the display back to the display with a dedicated pump.

 

[ScottB]

Here are a few pics. The tissue necrosis seems to be from the Dino’s covering the corals (smothering them) as they were fairly healthy when they were getting covered.

Any other recommendations on how to combat this? Should I just keep my nutrients up. I turned my skimmer off last week. Looks like I’m seeing cyano growth as well now. I almost want to do a water change, but fear that will make things worse.

Ouch. Really sorry. You had some nice colonies going there.

Here is one potential treatment path you can choose.

A Dinoflagellate Treatment Guide

As the title suggests, this is intended as a short guide on what to do when you suspect dinoflagellates are trying to overtake your system. It is an attempt to boil down the protocols discussed across 11,000 posts in this "Are you Tired" thread...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[echopiece]

Ouch. Really sorry. You had some nice colonies going there.

Here is one potential treatment path you can choose.

A Dinoflagellate Treatment Guide

As the title suggests, this is intended as a short guide on what to do when you suspect dinoflagellates are trying to overtake your system. It is an attempt to boil down the protocols discussed across 11,000 posts in this "Are you Tired" thread...

www.reef2reef.com

Thank you, it really is a bummer. I’ve been doing most of those recommendations other than the UV treatment. I’m not sure I want to go that path. One question i had is, what should I target Alkalinity as that thread mentions to watch alk levels? I checked this morning and my system is at 12dkh which seems high to me.

 

[ScottB]

Thank you, it really is a bummer. I’ve been doing most of those recommendations other than the UV treatment. I’m not sure I want to go that path. One question i had is, what should I target Alkalinity as that thread mentions to watch alk levels? I checked this morning and my system is at 12dkh which seems high to me.

Yeah, your coral uptake has plummeted. That can be a really harsh level for even a high nutrient system.

Natural seawater is 7ish. Most of the aquaculture folks I know run 7-8.5 or so. I know Red Sea Pro and IORC mix real high, I would suggest dropping back to RS Blue bucket. And if you are dosing, stop.

The UV (properly sized) is a significant expense. Without a positive ID, I understand the hesitation. A UV really does a good number on ostreopsis though.

 

[Xytrax]

Any guesses which dino this could be? The single large one looks like proro, but what about those little greenish/ yellow ones? Thanks.

 

[ScottB]

Any guesses which dino this could be? The single large one looks like proro, but what about those little greenish/ yellow ones? Thanks.

Agree proro.

The little ones look to be chrysophytes. As an algae type, it should respond to an algaecide like Vibrant or AlgaeFix dosed with care.

 

[iLMaRiO]

is safe to use EasySPS Evo when fighting dinos?

could be a coincidence but ostreos camera back after i started to dose EasySPS Evo (not sure if It was already here before dosing, i've fighted them 2 or 3 months ago and i've thiygh they was gone)

UV running every night from months but plumbed in sump, yesterday After seeing ostreos, i've plumbed it directly in DT and running h24

 

[ScottB]

is safe to use EasySPS Evo when fighting dinos?

could be a coincidence but ostreos camera back after i started to dose EasySPS Evo (not sure if It was already here before dosing, i've fighted them 2 or 3 months ago and i've thiygh they was gone)

UV running every night from months but plumbed in sump, yesterday After seeing ostreos, i've plumbed it directly in DT and running h24

I do not know the ingredients in EasySPS EVO. If it has any amino acids, I would not use it. Dinos LOVE amino acids.

 

[iLMaRiO]

I do not know the ingredients in EasySPS EVO. If it has any amino acids, I would not use it. Dinos LOVE amino acids.

producer told me it has but they have to be metabolized so it's safe to use. honestly, i'm not sure. i'll stop it.

any food corals safe to use? Better if with a dosing pump