Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[ScottB]

Unfortunately no.

A well done blackout means covering the tank from all light, you don’t have to feed the fish, they do well for 3 days.

Keep a good oxigenation and lights out of the cover. No lights on the fuge either.

What. Your tank is too good for some black trash bags and painters tape?

Nice cover. Must not be your first dino rodeo.

 

[Zoajohn]

Been a little while since I've popped in here. I was hoping someone would've found the cure by now. I've kept LC Amphids back for a month now. Still present but only on the glass and GHA. Dosing Live Rock Enhance once or twice a week with heavy feedings and nothing else. My coralline growth has exploded which is great to see.

 

[Kongar]

An update:

My last post to this thread was on Apr 22nd on pg 522 of this thread. At that time, I had just gone through my 2nd major battle. It wasn't as bad as the first go around, but still pretty gnarly. At that point, I learned that disturbing my sandbed was doing something, or contributing to the problem.

I'm happy to report that now at the beginning of August, dinos seem to be a painful memory of the past. I haven't seen them since that post, and I now can (and do) disturb my sandbed for cleaning and whatnot. Still no dinos. It seems things have finally settled down, and these massive outbreaks have subsided. At one point, my frustration with these buggers had me ready to throw in the towel on this hobby. Felt like a failure for sure. But now things are much better - stick with it everyone. It's a battle that can be won.

Some learnings (mostly repeats of what this thread is about, but significant to me)

• Keeping parameters up is important. Nothing you do works if your nitrates or phosphates are zero. Test and dose daily - you might even need to add quite a bit to keep up.
• UV helps, but it's not necessarily a magic bullet solution. It's one tool in the arsenal. It's also not necessary to keep it forever. (I no longer run UV)
• Get a microscope and stop guessing - glad I did and got an ID.
• They will come back - multiple times. While discouraging, this is in my opinion, inevitable. If subsequent breakouts are less severe than the prior, you should view that as progress. It's a war, not just one single battle.
• When fighting these buggers, if you get algae growing (hair, turf, bubble, whatever) just let it grow. Forget maintenance for algae. Algae is better than dinos.
• Also, try to leave the middle and bottom of your sandbed alone - it's ok if it gets scummy for a few months. Dinos make you get obsessive about cleaning, and that just makes things worse.
• A major weapon in my arsenal was dinox. That stuff works if you follow the directions. But like others said - it's a bit rough on things. It says reef safe, but it'll likely kill off some sensitive sps and inverts. I mean, the dinos were killing that stuff anyways, but dinox is truly a hammer. I'd consider it a last resort option. It also wins a battle, but not the war. (see my point about them returning inevitably)
• It takes a long time, and persistence. For me, the battle was about 3/4 of a year long.
• I think it's all about biodiversity. There's something special about live rock being able to speed that along. Starting a 100% dry rock sterile tank isn't something I think I'll ever do again. I don't think throwing a chunk of LR into a dino infested tank is a magic bullet - but maybe it helps.

Anyways, I saw this thread on the front page and realized I hadn't visited in a long time. That made me feel good. I figured I'd stop by and pass out some encouragement. If my noob rear can beat these little buggers, then so can you! This thread is a godsend - read the front page over and over, and do those things. Positive results will happen.

 

[Biff0rz]

Unfortunately no.

A well done blackout means covering the tank from all light, you don’t have to feed the fish, they do well for 3 days.

Keep a good oxigenation and lights out of the cover. No lights on the fuge either.

Thanks. I was going to cover the front/side/and screened top with garbage bags. This made it pitch black the last time I did it. I did not turn off the fuge light, but I will. I assume keep the UV on? I've read mixed results on feeding during this, but I assume the fish will think it's just a very long bedtime?

 

[Siberwulf]

An update:

My last post to this thread was on Apr 22nd on pg 522 of this thread. At that time, I had just gone through my 2nd major battle. It wasn't as bad as the first go around, but still pretty gnarly. At that point, I learned that disturbing my sandbed was doing something, or contributing to the problem.

I'm happy to report that now at the beginning of August, dinos seem to be a painful memory of the past. I haven't seen them since that post, and I now can (and do) disturb my sandbed for cleaning and whatnot. Still no dinos. It seems things have finally settled down, and these massive outbreaks have subsided. At one point, my frustration with these buggers had me ready to throw in the towel on this hobby. Felt like a failure for sure. But now things are much better - stick with it everyone. It's a battle that can be won.

Some learnings (mostly repeats of what this thread is about, but significant to me)

• Keeping parameters up is important. Nothing you do works if your nitrates or phosphates are zero. Test and dose daily - you might even need to add quite a bit to keep up.
• UV helps, but it's not necessarily a magic bullet solution. It's one tool in the arsenal. It's also not necessary to keep it forever. (I no longer run UV)
• Get a microscope and stop guessing - glad I did and got an ID.
• They will come back - multiple times. While discouraging, this is in my opinion, inevitable. If subsequent breakouts are less severe than the prior, you should view that as progress. It's a war, not just one single battle.
• When fighting these buggers, if you get algae growing (hair, turf, bubble, whatever) just let it grow. Forget maintenance for algae. Algae is better than dinos.
• Also, try to leave the middle and bottom of your sandbed alone - it's ok if it gets scummy for a few months. Dinos make you get obsessive about cleaning, and that just makes things worse.
• A major weapon in my arsenal was dinox. That stuff works if you follow the directions. But like others said - it's a bit rough on things. It says reef safe, but it'll likely kill off some sensitive sps and inverts. I mean, the dinos were killing that stuff anyways, but dinox is truly a hammer. I'd consider it a last resort option. It also wins a battle, but not the war. (see my point about them returning inevitably)
• It takes a long time, and persistence. For me, the battle was about 3/4 of a year long.
• I think it's all about biodiversity. There's something special about live rock being able to speed that along. Starting a 100% dry rock sterile tank isn't something I think I'll ever do again. I don't think throwing a chunk of LR into a dino infested tank is a magic bullet - but maybe it helps.

Anyways, I saw this thread on the front page and realized I hadn't visited in a long time. That made me feel good. I figured I'd stop by and pass out some encouragement. If my noob rear can beat these little buggers, then so can you! This thread is a godsend - read the front page over and over, and do those things. Positive results will happen.

Along the lines of biodiversity, I'm reading more and more that over-aggressive skimming can actually be causing your diversity to drop, thus leading to dinos. I'm about to start cycling mine off at night and seeing how it does.

 

[ScottB]

Thanks. I was going to cover the front/side/and screened top with garbage bags. This made it pitch black the last time I did it. I did not turn off the fuge light, but I will. I assume keep the UV on? I've read mixed results on feeding during this, but I assume the fish will think it's just a very long bedtime?

Turn off the fuge light too. You can feed fish. Yes on UV. In fact check that the sleeve is clear to maximize contact with the ostreopsis. In my last run the sleeve had a brown rust colored coating after only a month, likely due to slow flow.

 

[Reef and Dive]

Thanks. I was going to cover the front/side/and screened top with garbage bags. This made it pitch black the last time I did it. I did not turn off the fuge light, but I will. I assume keep the UV on? I've read mixed results on feeding during this, but I assume the fish will think it's just a very long bedtime?

Exactly… fish dreams…
UV on, most remaining Ostreopsis will go to the water column…

 

[Reef and Dive]

What. Your tank is too good for some black trash bags and painters tape?

Nice cover. Must not be your first dino rodeo.

Yes, not the first for me, and over some years I’ve been trying to help some folks here in Brazil, and it gave me some confidence… so that last time I have intentionally let intentionally dinos grow to demonstrate Cruz method in my channel in Brazil.

Nowadays I can say I do not fear them that much…

 

[Onthefly]

Question about "increased nutrients"...

Like others, my problem started with too much nutrient export, and my NO3 and PO4 values bottoming out. For increasing nutrients....I'm feeding heavily (4x/day from feeder, and spot feeding couple times a week) and dosing NO3 and PO4. Values seem to be holding steady at:

Alk: 9
Ca: 425
Mg: 1400
NO3: 12ppm
PO4: 0.2

UV took care of Ostreopsis, just have Amphidinium (LC) on some of the surfaces.

I'm just curious is there is an optimum range for increased nutrients I should be targeting, or is it just an anecdotal/each tank is different thing?

 

[ScottB]

Question about "increased nutrients"...

Like others, my problem started with too much nutrient export, and my NO3 and PO4 values bottoming out. For increasing nutrients....I'm feeding heavily (4x/day from feeder, and spot feeding couple times a week) and dosing NO3 and PO4. Values seem to be holding steady at:

Alk: 9
Ca: 425
Mg: 1400
NO3: 12ppm
PO4: 0.2

UV took care of Ostreopsis, just have Amphidinium (LC) on some of the surfaces.

I'm just curious is there is an optimum range for increased nutrients I should be targeting, or is it just an anecdotal/each tank is different thing?

Keeping 10/.1 as your minimum values for a good long while should keep competitors healthy. Maybe add a little silicate to get your diatom population expanded to compete with LC Amphids. No amino acids.

Hang in there.

 

[Biff0rz]

Exactly… fish dreams…
UV on, most remaining Ostreopsis will go to the water column…

Scott says I can feed. I have a copperband butterfly fish that is super healthy and I want to keep him that way. Will not feeding him for 72hrs be ok? They are always hungry (like most fish) but he's a big boy and eats well.

 

[Reef and Dive]

Scott says I can feed. I have a copperband butterfly fish that is super healthy and I want to keep him that way. Will not feeding him for 72hrs be ok? They are always hungry (like most fish) but he's a big boy and eats well.

Don’t tell the other folks I said this but if it was for the CB I would feed…

Actually there’s not a problem about feeding, the problem is turning the lights on…

 

[Biff0rz]

Don’t tell the other folks I said this but if it was for the CB I would feed…

Actually there’s not a problem about feeding, the problem is turning the lights on…

What about turning just the leds on with the lowest intensity?

 

[Reef and Dive]

What about turning just the leds on with the lowest intensity?

That’s a good idea. My CB can feed even with room lights on, or very dim…

 

[Biff0rz]

That’s a good idea. My CB can feed even with room lights on, or very dim…

Well I turned the leds on. They were on 30m so the fish could wake up. I think room lights make sense for tomorrow, I'll focus on just feeding the cbb, he's pretty curious and likes me haha

 

[Onthefly]

For those doing the 3 day black out....

When you turn the lights back on...do you run any acclimation, or just resume the previous schedule?

 

[Biff0rz]

That’s a good idea. My CB can feed even with room lights on, or very dim…

Looked at the tank today, still lots of small gha on the rocks and dinos. I really hope 72hr is enough

 

[Biff0rz]

For those doing the 3 day black out....

When you turn the lights back on...do you run any acclimation, or just resume the previous schedule?

Most of my corals are gone except softies, so. I just go back in full.

 

[Reef and Dive]

For those doing the 3 day black out....

When you turn the lights back on...do you run any acclimation, or just resume the previous schedule?

Just resume it.

 

[Mattyreefs]

For those doing the 3 day black out....

When you turn the lights back on...do you run any acclimation, or just resume the previous schedule?

I went back to 100% for all but white and added that back after a couple days. For what it's worth, my dinos were even worse ~4 weeks after my blackout so ymmv.