Looks like prorocentrum. They will go into the water column and can be zapped with UV (slow flow, 1 watt per 3 gallons). A three day blackout (with UV) is the best way to encourage them to swim. You should also run some activated carbon as they are fairly toxic.
Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?
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Jman76
Keeper of Greens
Hate to do it, but I gotta jump into this thread for some help. I know scope ID is mandatory, so while I wait for the scope to arrive that I ordered, are there any visual clues that may lean towards one type or another? Stuff is all over sand, rock and even some coral...its doing a number on my zoas 
. Seems worse with less/no light. Looks like heavy diatoms, not much bubbles, strands arent super long. Dunno if that helps, and Ill be back with microscope pics asap. Thanks a lot
. Seems worse with less/no light. Looks like heavy diatoms, not much bubbles, strands arent super long. Dunno if that helps, and Ill be back with microscope pics asap. Thanks a lot
50/50 on dinos. While you wait for the scope, you could try the "coffee filter test" to determine if they are some kind of dino or not. I have detailed it in this thread a dozen times. If you can't find it, ping back.Hate to do it, but I gotta jump into this thread for some help. I know scope ID is mandatory, so while I wait for the scope to arrive that I ordered, are there any visual clues that may lean towards one type or another? Stuff is all over sand, rock and even some coral...its doing a number on my zoas
Hello, I'm requesting help with the ID for my problem.
Tank is 15 months old bare bottom RS 250 with XR15 G4 lights set around 250 par. Mostly SPS, some LPS, 6 fish (Clowns, Damsels, Tomini and a Blenny and a small CUC. Temp 78.5, Ph 8.2, Salinity 35, ORP 414, Alk 8.2, Cal 485, Phosphate .125 & Mag 1320 as of Sunday.
I had a Dino outbreak about 3-4 months ago after having my Phosphate bottom out. I added an oversized UV directly into my DT tank while also battling Bryopsis. Turned out badly with only my LPS and fish surviving. But, since then, the tank has been doing well, Coraline has taken off, the SPS I've added over the past 3 months are all growing, but, it's odd that I do not see any algae in the tank other than what gathers on the glass every few days.
A little more than a week ago, I saw some brown "dusty" stuff gathering on the rocks below the lights. Broke out the microscope and saw what I think are Dinos again - so added the UV back into the DT, reduced my whites, have been brushing off the rocks daily, stopped my water changes, reduced my skimming and have let the Phosphates go up (was ~ .03 - .04). Although I do see an improvement I want to make certain that I'm identifying and dealing with the Dinos correctly. Between my lack of experience with the scope and the clunky attachment for the iphone I'm hoping the still and short video (attached) are clear enough for an ID...
My last SPS loss was heart-breaking so I'm really hoping to stay ahead of this now.
Any help is appreciated...
Tank is 15 months old bare bottom RS 250 with XR15 G4 lights set around 250 par. Mostly SPS, some LPS, 6 fish (Clowns, Damsels, Tomini and a Blenny and a small CUC. Temp 78.5, Ph 8.2, Salinity 35, ORP 414, Alk 8.2, Cal 485, Phosphate .125 & Mag 1320 as of Sunday.
I had a Dino outbreak about 3-4 months ago after having my Phosphate bottom out. I added an oversized UV directly into my DT tank while also battling Bryopsis. Turned out badly with only my LPS and fish surviving. But, since then, the tank has been doing well, Coraline has taken off, the SPS I've added over the past 3 months are all growing, but, it's odd that I do not see any algae in the tank other than what gathers on the glass every few days.
A little more than a week ago, I saw some brown "dusty" stuff gathering on the rocks below the lights. Broke out the microscope and saw what I think are Dinos again - so added the UV back into the DT, reduced my whites, have been brushing off the rocks daily, stopped my water changes, reduced my skimming and have let the Phosphates go up (was ~ .03 - .04). Although I do see an improvement I want to make certain that I'm identifying and dealing with the Dinos correctly. Between my lack of experience with the scope and the clunky attachment for the iphone I'm hoping the still and short video (attached) are clear enough for an ID...
My last SPS loss was heart-breaking so I'm really hoping to stay ahead of this now.
Any help is appreciated...
Jman76
Keeper of Greens
Looks like amphidium? The moves like a Roomba is spot on
Attachments
You have amphidinium certainly. The Roomba swim pattern is the tell. Large or small I am less definitive about. I am leaning Large Cell but there are no other visible organisms to compare sizes with.Hello, I'm requesting help with the ID for my problem.
Tank is 15 months old bare bottom RS 250 with XR15 G4 lights set around 250 par. Mostly SPS, some LPS, 6 fish (Clowns, Damsels, Tomini and a Blenny and a small CUC. Temp 78.5, Ph 8.2, Salinity 35, ORP 414, Alk 8.2, Cal 485, Phosphate .125 & Mag 1320 as of Sunday.
I had a Dino outbreak about 3-4 months ago after having my Phosphate bottom out. I added an oversized UV directly into my DT tank while also battling Bryopsis. Turned out badly with only my LPS and fish surviving. But, since then, the tank has been doing well, Coraline has taken off, the SPS I've added over the past 3 months are all growing, but, it's odd that I do not see any algae in the tank other than what gathers on the glass every few days.
A little more than a week ago, I saw some brown "dusty" stuff gathering on the rocks below the lights. Broke out the microscope and saw what I think are Dinos again - so added the UV back into the DT, reduced my whites, have been brushing off the rocks daily, stopped my water changes, reduced my skimming and have let the Phosphates go up (was ~ .03 - .04). Although I do see an improvement I want to make certain that I'm identifying and dealing with the Dinos correctly. Between my lack of experience with the scope and the clunky attachment for the iphone I'm hoping the still and short video (attached) are clear enough for an ID...
My last SPS loss was heart-breaking so I'm really hoping to stay ahead of this now.
Any help is appreciated...
@taricha ?
You don't mention an NO3 value. Got some?
If it is small cell, the UV should help. Run some activated carbon as they have medium toxicity. Could try a blackout of a day or two to encourage them into the water.
This sample has no visible diatoms. You should have some. Kinda leans toward LC amphids as they outcompete. If confirmed LC, you can put the UV away. They hug the sand bed. Pick up some Sponge Excel (silicates) to feed the diatoms. Ironic, I know.
I think your are correct. Large Cell amphids.
There is a separate thread for amphidinium treatment by @taricha you can consult for treatment ideas. Kinda all over the map, but using Sponge Excel to feed competitor diatoms is a common element. These require some patience, sadly. On the bright side, they are not toxic. Just butt ugly.
Potatohead
Valuable Member
I had a bad infestation of amphidinium about a year ago. Heavy MB7 daily for 2-3 weeks (with skimmer shut off for four hours), and heavy dosing of SpongExcel for about 6-8 weeks worked. I also started feeding about 25% more. They were totally gone in about 5-6 weeks. I slowly backed off the SpongeExcel over the next 2-3 weeks at the end until the bottle was gone.
Jman76
Keeper of Greens
Thanks Scott. They are way ugly. Crazy how fast they come back, esp after water change. Not toxic? Ive lost a lot of zoas, wonder if from something else. Ive run thru @taricha amphid thread....some anyways. Im keeping nutes up, Ill try the silicate. Wonder if i just pull the sand. Some bad reviews on the black aragonite
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ScottB, thank you for your help, you're a gentleman...
The NO3, oversight on my part, has been running between 10-20 ppm and it was around 10 yesterday (Red Sea test).
My first look under the scope was of the brown clinging to the DT glass and saw they were mostly elongated, stick like structures that didn't move - so I was happy to see at least that wasn't Dinos - so they're in the tank, just not in the Q-tip sample I took from the rock. I'll get both the diatom and the Dino onto the same slide so I can compare the size to see whether Large or Small amphidinium. Can I assume the Small cell would be much smaller than the diatoms?
I'll certainly add the silicates to compete and keep the UV going as it can't hurt.
Thank you again and I appreciate your advise.
The NO3, oversight on my part, has been running between 10-20 ppm and it was around 10 yesterday (Red Sea test).
My first look under the scope was of the brown clinging to the DT glass and saw they were mostly elongated, stick like structures that didn't move - so I was happy to see at least that wasn't Dinos - so they're in the tank, just not in the Q-tip sample I took from the rock. I'll get both the diatom and the Dino onto the same slide so I can compare the size to see whether Large or Small amphidinium. Can I assume the Small cell would be much smaller than the diatoms?
I'll certainly add the silicates to compete and keep the UV going as it can't hurt.
Thank you again and I appreciate your advise.
If the amphids manage to strip out the nutrient, it won't end well for corals. Was that an issue in your last adventure?
Jman76
Keeper of Greens
I had a gha issue a few months ago. It consumed most of it. After clearing the gha, i kept nutrients around 3/.03. Thats where it seemed to settle. When i first noticed what i thought was diatoms tank was at 1/.02. That was almost a week ago. Been dosing N/P to keep at least 5N and .1P
You are welcome. Several before helped me dig out of similar and different crevasses so there we go.
I've had plenty of other dinos but my experience with amphidinium is third party
For most of the diatoms I have seen, they will certainly be longer than small cell but similar in width. And small cell (fresh sample) move very fast. They (IME) most often accompany other dinos, especially LC Amphids which makes the ID pretty easy.
Jman76
Keeper of Greens
Regarding sand removal...with the amphidium living/binding so tight to the sand, does it make sense to ditch it? I realize the loss of surface area and bac, but I have a lot of rock...would that suffice for bac population? Maybe run BB for awhile until rock and coral clear up? Im just throwin darts in the dark here, so feel free to correct lol
I'd call sand removal the last ditch maneuver as it is hard to predict the knock on consequences to your biome. It is a healthy buffer of PO4 as well as being home to nitrifying bacteria. People have certainly resorted to going BB after months of battling. Still, not my favorite solution.
Also, if the sand is "old" and not "managed" you need to be very careful not to release too much gunk into the water column.
Jman76
Keeper of Greens
Got it. Was mainly concerned with the bac. Its fairly new sand, replaced 6 months ago. 1 inch deep and vac'd every WC 1-2x a month. Ill just be patient with it then, and keep the dosing. Getting a bottle of sponge excel this afternoon. Just to review general plan if you dont mind?:
Dose N/P
Dose sponge excel
Blow off rock/coral
Should I be adding Bac/Gac?
Thanks @ScottB
Yes, I think you have it. 5-10 and close to .1 for N/P
You may need to research a bit on measuring for silicates (Sponge Excel). Many have struggled with the hobby test kits and getting levels correct and >0.
As to bacteria, I am a general fan of MB7 and many beyond @Potatohead have reported it to be efficacious. Of course it is never a controlled experiment but anecdotally and intuitively I am good enough with it. Just be aware that it is working against your nutrient dosing so just keep up regular testing. (Funny, right now I am dosing PO4, carbon, and MB7 as my nitrates got away from me.)
GA Carbon isn't necessary, but if it is part of your regular routine it is fine.
So this is interesting... skipped dosing nitrates today because I’m reading 2ppm now. Plus phosphates are going up now? How is that? I’m not dosing. Not feeding a huge amount. I have been adding 27ml of neonitro daily to start reading nitrates again and po4 was going down but now started coming back up oddly. And adding phyto + mb7 daily.. Is that due to dying dinos? Maybe they release it back into the system?
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