Day 4 Treating Blue Tang with Cupramine but he's still scratching his body

[Oliver199234]

My blue tang got ich and initially he was laying down all the time but after 2 days with cupramine he's swimming around and eating like a pig.

The only problem is he's still scratching his body. My current copper level is at 0.5mg/L - 0.6mg/L.

I test for copper everyday with Seachem Copper Testkit

Here's a video of my blue tang. My clownfish just won't get out of the way.

Is this normal? I plan to treat it for 21 days (the instruction says 14 days is enough)

How long does it take for blue tang to recover from ich completely? I'm treating them in a quarantine tank.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Oliver199234 Welcome to the Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis Forum!

The #fishmedic team and other knowledgeable members of our community will do our best to help you resolve your questions. Please provide as much of the following as you are able:

• Brief description of the issue you are observing and answers to the following questions:
  • How long have you had the fish with the condition?
  • Did you quarantine with medication when you first acquired the fish? (If Yes, which medication?)
• Current water quality measurements
• Clear photos of the issue taken using WHITE light and/or a short video of any behaviors (post in your response or on YouTube).

If you can help us by providing as much of the above info as possible, it will make diagnosing and providing recommendations for treatment MUCH easier! The Fish Medic team will get back to you as quickly as possible. In the meantime, other members of our community may also share their experience with similar situations and advice that they may have regarding your situation.

You may also feel free to provide a more detailed description of the condition if you wish to share more info than the above list.

Additionally, these links may be useful while you await a response:

• CURRENT QT PROTOCOL LINK
• HOW TO ASK FOR DISEASE DIAGNOSIS HELP LINK

 

[MnFish1]

The normal treatment for Ich is 30 days. And you should be treating all of your fish - if the hippo has been exposed to them. Itching can persist longer - would make sure its ich (I can't see the video)

 

[Jay Hemdal]

My blue tang got ich and initially he was laying down all the time but after 2 days with cupramine he's swimming around and eating like a pig.

The only problem is he's still scratching his body. My current copper level is at 0.5mg/L - 0.6mg/L.

I test for copper everyday with Seachem Copper Testkit

Here's a video of my blue tang. My clownfish just won't get out of the way.

Is this normal? I plan to treat it for 21 days (the instruction says 14 days is enough)

How long does it take for blue tang to recover from ich completely? I'm treating them in a quarantine tank.

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Cupramine is a bit harsher than the amine-chelated copper products (coppersafe and copper power) so it is generally advised to shorten a cupramine treatment as much as possible. 14 days is really too short, 14 days past the date of the last symptoms seen is better, and this usually works out to 18 to 20 days or so.

It is probably that your tang has ich, but also has flukes. Ich does not cause fish to scratch as much as flukes do. Copper doesn't treat flukes. For that you can use Praziquantel. I prefer to not treat with cupramine and prazi at the same time, but it has been done. If you were farther along with the copper treatment, I would just say to wait until that is finished, but since you are just a few days into it, that may not be a good idea, and you may want to decide to treat both drugs at the same time.

If you do treat with praziquantel you would make certain there is really good aeration, then dose it for the actual volume of the tank (not the tank's rated capacity). Then, 8 days later, dose it again.

Jay

 

[Oliver199234]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Cupramine is a bit harsher than the amine-chelated copper products (coppersafe and copper power) so it is generally advised to shorten a cupramine treatment as much as possible. 14 days is really too short, 14 days past the date of the last symptoms seen is better, and this usually works out to 18 to 20 days or so.

It is probably that your tang has ich, but also has flukes. Ich does not cause fish to scratch as much as flukes do. Copper doesn't treat flukes. For that you can use Praziquantel. I prefer to not treat with cupramine and prazi at the same time, but it has been done. If you were farther along with the copper treatment, I would just say to wait until that is finished, but since you are just a few days into it, that may not be a good idea, and you may want to decide to treat both drugs at the same time.

If you do treat with praziquantel you would make certain there is really good aeration, then dose it for the actual volume of the tank (not the tank's rated capacity). Then, 8 days later, dose it again.

Jay

Thank you for your reply.

I've followed your suggestion. 1 month with cupramine and once the treatment is completed I'll treat it with Praziquantel.

The problem with flukes is I can't really identify it. It's not as easy as ich or velvet unless I do a freshwater dip to check it.

Would you recommend me to do a freshwater dip to check for fluke? If there isn't any fluke dropping out, is it safe to say there's no flukes?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you for your reply.

I've followed your suggestion. 1 month with cupramine and once the treatment is completed I'll treat it with Praziquantel.

The problem with flukes is I can't really identify it. It's not as easy as ich or velvet unless I do a freshwater dip to check it.

Would you recommend me to do a freshwater dip to check for fluke? If there isn't any fluke dropping out, is it safe to say there's no flukes?

No - I would skip the FW dip unless you have a microscope. Only one species of fluke (Neobenedenia) is large enough to see with the naked eye in the water after a dip.

Now, that said, there is a technique of giving the fish a 5 minute FW dip to kill off *most* of the flukes that *might* be there, just to buy you some time to finish the copper treatment.

 

[Oliver199234]

No - I would skip the FW dip unless you have a microscope. Only one species of fluke (Neobenedenia) is large enough to see with the naked eye in the water after a dip.

Now, that said, there is a technique of giving the fish a 5 minute FW dip to kill off *most* of the flukes that *might* be there, just to buy you some time to finish the copper treatment.

I went to my local fish store and showed them the video of my blue tang after several days of treatment with cupramine. They said the same thing (suspect it's flukes)

My blue tang has never had any white spots ever since I dosed cupramine and he still very itchy.

They told me to use Seachem Paraguard once my cupramine treatment is over and do a freshwater dip every 2 days for 3 mins to let the blue tang feel better.

Is Seachem Paraguard better than PraziPro?

The guy told me PraziPro is quite strong.

PS. my blue tang is still eating aggressively and getting very fat

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I went to my local fish store and showed them the video of my blue tang after several days of treatment with cupramine. They said the same thing (suspect it's flukes)

My blue tang has never had any white spots ever since I dosed cupramine and he still very itchy.

They told me to use Seachem Paraguard once my cupramine treatment is over and do a freshwater dip every 2 days for 3 mins to let the blue tang feel better.

Is Seachem Paraguard better than PraziPro?

The guy told me PraziPro is quite strong.

PS. my blue tang is still eating aggressively and getting very fat

No - please don't use Paraguard. It does not treat flukes (despite their advertising). It is just an aldehyde/malachite green medication. These are more effective in freshwater tanks.

Prazipro can be dosed with invertebrates, Paraguard cannot be. When you dose Prazipro, you must add supplemental aeration. You dose it for the net volume of the tank (if you don't know that, you subtract 15% to offset water volume displaced by rocks, etc.) You remove any carbon filtration, turn off any UV, run any skimmers, but don't collect the skimmate. Then, 8 days after your first dose, you change 25% of the water and dose it again. Three to five days after the second dose, you change another 25% of the water.

 

[Oliver199234]

No - please don't use Paraguard. It does not treat flukes (despite their advertising). It is just an aldehyde/malachite green medication. These are more effective in freshwater tanks.

Prazipro can be dosed with invertebrates, Paraguard cannot be. When you dose Prazipro, you must add supplemental aeration. You dose it for the net volume of the tank (if you don't know that, you subtract 15% to offset water volume displaced by rocks, etc.) You remove any carbon filtration, turn off any UV, run any skimmers, but don't collect the skimmate. Then, 8 days after your first dose, you change 25% of the water and dose it again. Three to five days after the second dose, you change another 25% of the water.

OK. I've realized I can't find the exact same brand "PraziPro" in my country but there are similar products which are all stated Active Ingredient: Praziquentel

I've attached a snapshot of the product description just to be safe.

Is a powerhead sufficient? I have a powerhead in my QT near the surface for more water agitation. Do I still need to place any supplemental aeration.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

OK. I've realized I can't find the exact same brand "PraziPro" in my country but there are similar products which are all stated Active Ingredient: Praziquentel

I've attached a snapshot of the product description just to be safe.

Is a powerhead sufficient? I have a powerhead in my QT near the surface for more water agitation. Do I still need to place any supplemental aeration.

Yes - that product is apparently a copy of Prazipro. A powerhead alone may not provide sufficient aeration, you should also use an air stone.

 

[Oliver199234]

OK. Thank you for your reply.

I suspect it's gill fluke since I've never seen any flukes on its skin.

I'm going to buy the medication today and wait for the cupramine to do its thing for another 2 weeks.

Lastly, would you recommend me to use Cuprisorb to remove the cupramine once the copper treatment is over?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

OK. Thank you for your reply.

I suspect it's gill fluke since I've never seen any flukes on its skin.

I'm going to buy the medication today and wait for the cupramine to do its thing for another 2 weeks.

Lastly, would you recommend me to use Cuprisorb to remove the cupramine once the copper treatment is over?

To remove copper, it is best to do two large water changes to get the k on level down, and then use cuprisorb to pull out any remaining copper.

 

[Oliver199234]

It's been 28 days since I have treated my blue tang with cupramine. No signs of white spot during these 28 days.

I have cleared cupramine by doing water changes and carbon. Tested the water so it's safe to dose Prazi.

It's been a few hours. My blue tang isn't breathing as heavily as it used too and it's not that itchy as before.

How long for Prazi to take effect?

The instruction stated "redose Prazi on the 3rd and 6th day". After that, should I continue the treatment for another week to eliminate any possible flukes?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

It's been 28 days since I have treated my blue tang with cupramine. No signs of white spot during these 28 days.

I have cleared cupramine by doing water changes and carbon. Tested the water so it's safe to dose Prazi.

It's been a few hours. My blue tang isn't breathing as heavily as it used too and it's not that itchy as before.

How long for Prazi to take effect?

The instruction stated "redose Prazi on the 3rd and 6th day". After that, should I continue the treatment for another week to eliminate any possible flukes?

Prazipro lists an odd redosing schedule, I prefer to dose it every 8 days, to try and break the life cycle of egg laying flukes. You may need to dose 3 times.

 

[Oliver199234]

I'll just follow the instruction to dose it on the 3rd and 6th day, treat the fish with Prazi for a total of 3 weeks just in case.

it's the 4th day now. My blue tang isn't that itchy. It still scratching itself against the rock but not as much as before. I can say it has reduced more than 50%

The only problem is ever since I dosed Prazi, the entire QT is covered in algae or brownish stain (looks like diatom but I don't know what that is) and the skimmer is nuts. I took away the skimmate before dosing Prazi

Now my blue tang is eating algae

The good news is it's eating like a pig and it's growing bigger. It used to be a baby hippo tang. Now it's even bigger than my clownfish (it was smaller than the clownfish when I got the blue tang)

Does this mean that the Prazi is effective?