Day 17 fishless tank cycle. Ammonia 0, Nitrite/Nitrate to the roof.

[Gabbone]

Thanks for the insight. I think I am gonna wait another week before taking any action and just let Mother Nature do her things. I also have the bottle of Nitrobac (nitrifying/denitrifying bacteria) from The Red Sea Starter Kit. Maybe I should add 5ml

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi all,

I am doing a fishless cycle with dry rock, live deep sand, and I am at day 17. I've used Red Sea Mature Starter Kit.

None of what they claimed in their instruction was accurate but somehow I managed to get 2 days ago the Ammonia at 0ppm for the first time. (I am using Hanna checkers). I only did a 5% water change on day 10.

The skimmer was off since I did not use NoPox (If you know this product you know makes messes for new tanks).

Values are pretty stable
S: 1024
T: 26* C
Ph 8.0
Dkh: 11.9 (I use red sea coral pro salt which is very high in dkh)
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: ? The checker blinks since it's an ULR and therefore the value it's higher than the maximum reading 1ppm. (Also on the red sea nitrite test the colour seems three times stronger than 1ppm).
Nitrate: 70ppm (I guess because nitrites are higher can interfere?)

My question is, what should I do now?

- Just wait for Nitrite to drop? And then wait for the nitrate to drop?
- Do a 50% Water change and introduce the first snails.

I have no rush in putting creatures since I'd rather prefer to develop strong bacteria cultures. But I am kind of stuck. The nitrite level seems never to drop and nitrate seems getting higher day after day.

Keep in mind that I got 0 ppm ammonia only 2-3 days ago.

It's my first time cycling a saltwater aquarium, be kind

Ciaooo

Maintain ammonia at zero for 5 days and you are good to go while it may be ready now. With no3- 20 or below steady also

 

[Gabbone]

I am doing a fishless cycle with marco rock currently also. Seemed to take longer for the ammonia to come downlike 10-14 days to start. As of friday I had a slight color difference (maybe not) on an api and salifert test from 0. Checked nitrite 5.0ppm I know they say nitrite is/does not effect saltwater fish but I still dont trust that info 100%.Probably true but im not in a hurry. I did add some reefroids to the tank just to get a po4 reading on sunday. On monday nitrite still hadnt moved wednesday it dropped to 2.0. Unsure if that was just because the bacteria that converts nitrite had finally begun to act or if the phosphate/carbon helped. I dont have a reliable (api) phosphate tester yet so low levels are not detectable. But if you were adding food from what ive read above I dont see carbon being the limiting factor.

Hi! I also don't trust the info about nitrites. It's science-proofed that high nitrites cause medium long-term effects on fish. We are here for the long run. I believe we should just wait for parameters to drop and maybe just do some water changes.

 

[twentyleagues]

Hi! I also don't trust the info about nitrites. It's science-proofed that high nitrites cause medium long-term effects on fish. We are here for the long run. I believe we should just wait for parameters to drop and maybe just do some water changes.

Running a little "experiment". I checked my nitrites last night still 2.0 so I added another 1/4 teaspoon of reefroids. Going to check tonight and tomorrow to see if nitrite drops again. This isnt scientific obviously as it could be coincidence.

 

[Gabbone]

Running a little "experiment". I checked my nitrites last night still 2.0 so I added another 1/4 teaspoon of reefroids. Going to check tonight and tomorrow to see if nitrite drops again. This isnt scientific obviously as it could be coincidence.

Nice! I also did a little test suggested from @Dan_P

I dilute 9ml of new salty water with 1ml of tank water for a total of 10ml and test nitrite with Hanna ultra-low range. This checker can read up to a maximum of 200 ppb.

I got as result 57 ppb.
I multiplied x 10 = 570 ppb

Then followed the conversion table from ppb to ppm.
- 570ppb*3.29/1000 = 1.87ppm

 

[twentyleagues]

Nice! I also did a little test suggested from @Dan_P

I dilute 9ml of new salty water with 1ml of tank water for a total of 10ml and test nitrite with Hanna ultra-low range. This checker can read up to a maximum of 200 ppb.

I got as result 57 ppb.
I multiplied x 10 = 570 ppb

Then followed the conversion table from ppb to ppm.
- 570ppb*3.29/1000 = 1.87ppm

I'm just using api. I didnt feel I needed to be that precise.

 

[Gabbone]

I'm just using api. I didnt feel I needed to be that precise.

No thats good!

I am doing that because my checker can detect a maximum 200ppb which is super low. Therefore anything above that value is not detectable. That's why I dilute 1:10. In this way I can see the result within my checker range and then multiply times 10 to see where I am!

 

[brandon429]

This cycle is done

You're using old cycling science which is why we're not discussing disease preps which will kill your fish if you skip them

Waiting longer, dosing anything, can't make your tank safe for fish

Only a plan for fallow and quarantine in your ready reef gives them a chance


New cycling science=knowing when to call a cycle done and focus on required disease preps. We should be discussing disease preps you're ready to implement for two pages.

*this is no fault to the op, old cycling science designed to make you buy repeat bottles of bacteria are the only formal means written about. You have to find the new stuff in forums.

Ammonia control is all that matters in display cycling and any common arrangement is done in ten days. You're twice that.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hi! I also don't trust the info about nitrites. It's science-proofed that high nitrites cause medium long-term effects on fish. We are here for the long run. I believe we should just wait for parameters to drop and maybe just do some water changes.

Show me your science info.

IMO, you are wrong. I am an expert scientist and I only make recommendations based on the available scientific information. Nitrite is not toxic in marine systems like it is in fresh water.

You may have gotten your misinformation from the freshwater world, where nitrite is toxic. Salt is toxic too, but we add it in seawater.

Nitrite and the Reef Aquarium by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

 

[brandon429]

Gabbone

that's for freshwater. do some googling *reject anything you read from bottle bac salesmen

accept anything you read by reef chemists regarding nitrite, I did a ten second search and this came up:

https://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.php

 

[brandon429]

remember: you're about to dig in heels over neutral params, wait two more weeks + two more bottles of bac unneeded, then insert fish which then die by April due to skipping all preps for fish and corals and CUC you can read about in the disease forum, that's an avoidable event.

 

[Gabbone]

I am new to this. So no hate.

I am just trying to understand what is better for the long run. I've found lots of different info and everyone said different things.

Today's value, after 20 days are:

Ammonia: 0.04ppm
NO2: 1.87ppm
NO3: 45ppm

Should I give another small water change and try to put some snails?

 

[brandon429]

if you add any life to the tank, it lives exactly as it would if you waited 6 more months, the cycle is done because ammonia control is all that matters and ammonia doesn't run zero in ready reefs, it runs trace amounts when bioloading or test loads are present.

you can simply reef right now: anything you add if acclimated correctly lives and has its bioload handled. it's the disease vectoring that you should be very very careful and studied and hesitant about, the cycle is just done. we don't track nitrite or nitrate in them (in updated cycling science threads) because those two params are neutral impact, can't help protect against fish disease even if they're ultra low. we ignore them, and focus here instead

Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis

A forum for discussing treatment and diagnosing saltwater reef fish.

www.reef2reef.com

your disease plan now limits what you can add, not the biofiltration.

post a full tank pic so we can make sure you had rocks stewing this whole time/make sure u have the normal degree of surface area.

if you want to see a cheap and creative way some people handle disease preps, read this:

Has anyone done coral/inverts only and no fish at first?

Fish seem to be the main cause of disruption in a display tank, given the current circumstances in the hobby with pests (ich, velvet, parasites, etc.). I have been in this hobby for 18 years, and the amount of pests that are showing up lately is much more (could also be the fact that we have...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[PotatoPig]

Should I give another small water change and try to put some snails?

You may want to consider hermit crabs instead.

Snails will need algae to eat and from what you’re describing you don’t have any in there yet as your lights are not on? It’ll also take a bit for it to actually grow once you do turn lights on

Hermits will eat fish food, etc. Easier to keep around until you add fish and turn on lights. Toss a couple in, toss in some empty shells for them. Call it a day.

 

[Gabbone]

Ok so,

this is my tank AIO 30g tank.

Lights has been always off to prevent algae.

 

[PotatoPig]

Ok so,

this is my tank AIO 30g tank.

Lights has been always off to prevent algae.

The algae will grow whenever you turn the lights on, no matter how long you wait. Good news - it’ll consume your nitrites and nitrates!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I am just trying to understand what is better for the long run. I've found lots of different info and everyone said different things.

That is typical of reefing, where there are all sorts of opinions on what is best.

When two opinions may be completely at odds (1 ppm nitrite is toxic vs 1 ppm nitrite is not toxic) it is worth asking folks why they believe it to be true. The scientific studies on marine organisms supporting the level of toxicity are provided in my article.

It is usually not best to take such an issue and solve it by poll.

 

[brandon429]

plenty of surface area, nice one. that picture above is literally everyone's bottle bac dry start reef, if we search out fish-in cycling (where they put fish in day one along with the bacteria) we see universally:

-anything they add lives.
-some sort of nh4 reading on a cheap test kit is driving the readers crazy because they expect zero ammonia at all times in a reef tank (old cycling science) but the animals never act harmed, because bottle bac is that good.
-You shouldn't test any more for ammonia, nitrite or nitrate because it will aim your concern away from fish disease and into over-verifying cycle readiness, that doubt is old cycling science training.
-you are nearly twenty days in where most people / many people add fish on day one and things go fine, all searches show on any site. your bacteria has had plenty of time to attach.
-no matter how someone cycles, their disease tracking runs independently and is tied to their biosecurity habits. never the cycle.

the right way to manage your reef is to choose a disease plan and solely focus on that, not any more mention of ammonia, nitrite or nitrate though that will be hard to resist

 

[Gabbone]

Ok, thank you very much, guys.

Question: when you guys talk about a disease plan mean using a standard procedure to avoid disease? If so, I am completely new to it. Could you suggest something easy and effective? I don't have a quarantine tank but the guy at the fish store assured me that they do quarantine fish. What should I do?

 

[brandon429]

no you must study disease preps like you did cycling, it can't be conceptualized any easier than the links show given so far. be sure and read them

it will take a couple weeks in the disease forum reading the troubleshoots and the stickies for you to learn disease plan options and pick one and run it.

if you skim, you'll leak in procedure and disease gets through.

simply read all the stickies in the disease forum

then read several pages of the help threads people post, 20 new ones are posted daily from people either skipping the preps or running them incompletely.