Cycling help please!

ac1108 · Sep 9, 2024

Hello,

I would appreciate some help please!

I have a 400 ltr tank (this is my first one), which I've been using Dr. Tims one and only to cycle, added ammonia as instructed.
I'm 2 and a half weeks in and I've had 0 ammonia for the last 5 days, but my nitrites have been reading 1 (using RedSea test kit) for the last week with no change.
Nitrates have been reading between 2 and 10 depending on the day for the last week.

I did a 25% water change at the two week mark.

How can I reduce the nitrites? It just doesn't seem to be coming down at all.

Thanks in advance!

Cell · Sep 9, 2024

Nitrites can take a little time to go down but the great news is we are not concerned with nitrites in our saltwater aquariums. Once ammonia is processing down to zero, you are safe to start stocking slowly. The only reason we now worry about nitrite is because we cannot accurately measure nitrate if nitrite is present. So go ahead and shelve the nitrate test until the nitrite drops, which could take another week or more.

Sdoutreefer · Sep 9, 2024

I would not have done your water change yet. That can postpone the complete cycle and could also "re-cycle" the tank. Learning experience, if you will.
I would just be patient and let your tank work its magic. If your ammonia is gone, then I'm sure you're good to go.

I was in the same predicament, but my tank was a bit older than 2 weeks (5ish weeks). My Nitrites and Nitrates are all sky high (NO2 >/= 4ppm; NO3 >/= 100ppm; both salifert tests) and I added fish over the weekend. It has been 3 days and all fish are happy, showing zero signs of stress. I also added a few frags (zoas, chalice, ricordea) and all coral are very happy as well.

ac1108 · Sep 9, 2024

Cell said:
Nitrites can take a little time to go down but the great news is we are not concerned with nitrites in our saltwater aquariums. Once ammonia is processing down to zero, you are safe to start stocking slowly. The only reason we now worry about nitrite is because we cannot accurately measure nitrate if nitrite is present. So go ahead and shelve the nitrate test until the nitrite drops, which could take another week or more.

Thank you! I know people normally say to start with clownfish but I'd like a nice pair so don't really want to invest in those as my first fish to the tank so currently looking at other appropriate 'starter' fish. Open to recommendations if you have them?

ac1108 · Sep 9, 2024

Sdoutreefer said:
I would not have done your water change yet. That can postpone the complete cycle and could also "re-cycle" the tank. Learning experience, if you will.
I would just be patient and let your tank work its magic. If your ammonia is gone, then I'm sure you're good to go.

I was in the same predicament, but my tank was a bit older than 2 weeks (5ish weeks). My Nitrites and Nitrates are all sky high (NO2 >/= 4ppm; NO3 >/= 100ppm; both salifert tests) and I added fish over the weekend. It has been 3 days and all fish are happy, showing zero signs of stress. I also added a few frags (zoas, chalice, ricordea) and all coral are very happy as well.

Ahh, I wanted to get into good habits early but didn't realise your not supposed to do a water change whilst it's still cycling.

I think I'll go slow and just try with one fish tomorrow then. I definitely don't want to accidentally kill any fish (hence the fishless cycling haha).

Thanks!

Cell · Sep 9, 2024

The water change was fine.

Firefish, banghai cardinal, yellow watchman goby, blenny are all good starter fish for that tank, lots of options for a 100G. Sandbed or barebottom?

AmazingYocool · Sep 9, 2024

ac1108 said:
Hello,

I would appreciate some help please!

I have a 400 ltr tank (this is my first one), which I've been using Dr. Tims one and only to cycle, added ammonia as instructed.
I'm 2 and a half weeks in and I've had 0 ammonia for the last 5 days, but my nitrites have been reading 1 (using RedSea test kit) for the last week with no change.
Nitrates have been reading between 2 and 10 depending on the day for the last week.

I did a 25% water change at the two week mark.

How can I reduce the nitrites? It just doesn't seem to be coming down at all.

Thanks in advance!

Nitrite can still be toxic to fish, fresh or salt. Good news is ammonia is down, so your tank is cycling. If you have followed all of the directions on Dr Tims and its still a high nitrite, I would add some form of bacteria such as seed into your tank untill the cycle completly rids of the nitrite. The lowest i'd add anything is .25, but .5 and 1 is a little too high for me.

I hope it goes by fast!

ac1108 · Sep 9, 2024

Cell said:
The water change was fine.

Firefish, banghai cardinal, yellow watchman goby, blenny are all good starter fish for that tank, lots of options for a 100G. Sandbed or barebottom?

Ah good, thank you! It's has a sandbed in it.

Cell · Sep 9, 2024

Nitrite is not toxic in our saltwater tanks at the levels we experience despite what others may be telling you.

Sdoutreefer · Sep 9, 2024

ac1108 said:
Ahh, I wanted to get into good habits early but didn't realise your not supposed to do a water change whilst it's still cycling.

I think I'll go slow and just try with one fish tomorrow then. I definitely don't want to accidentally kill any fish (hence the fishless cycling haha).

Thanks!

No biggy, It won't hurt. That is really up for debate, whether or not it will postpone or stall out the cycle. Just depends how much nitrifying bacteria, and food source, you have in your sand/rock/water column.

I would get a small school of blue chromis for your testers. They're cheap and hardy.

Cell · Sep 9, 2024

No need for a school of anything to test. A single fish is sufficient. Nor is a group of chromis recommended as they typically pick each other off over time until there is only one left. Some stock groups of chromis successfully, but most do not.

Sdoutreefer · Sep 9, 2024

Cell said:
No need for a school of anything to test. A single fish is sufficient. Nor is a group of chromis recommended as they typically pick each other off over time until there is only one left. Some stock groups of chromis successfully, but most do not.

I've had nothing but luck with 3-5 chromis. Never had have issues with them picking on eachother.

Cell · Sep 9, 2024

Don't just take my word for it though. Here is our resident fish medic on nitrite.

Jay Hemdal said:
Nitrite is deadly to freshwater fish, but the sodium chloride in seawater negates the toxic effect. Marine fish have no issue with it at all.

AmazingYocool · Sep 9, 2024

Cell said:
Nitrite is not toxic in our saltwater tanks at the levels we experience despite what others may be telling you.

how so?

AmazingYocool · Sep 9, 2024

Cell said:
Don't just take my word for it though. Here is our resident fish medic on nitrite.

I just read up on it, very interesting. Thanks for informing me

ac1108 · Sep 9, 2024

Cell said:
No need for a school of anything to test. A single fish is sufficient. Nor is a group of chromis recommended as they typically pick each other off over time until there is only one left. Some stock groups of chromis successfully, but most do not.

I don't actually like chromis so won't go for them. I think I'll go for a blenny or goby, aside from the yellow watchman, are there any other ones would you recommend please?

Cell · Sep 9, 2024

Fish stocking is really a personal preference sort of thing. Are there any species other than clowns you intend to stock at some point? Do you plan on stocking coral at some point or is this fish only?

ac1108 · Sep 9, 2024

Cell said:
Fish stocking is really a personal preference sort of thing. Are there any species other than clowns you intend to stock at some point? Do you plan on stocking coral at some point or is this fish only?

It's going to be a mixed reef, I definitely want to have corals. Fish on my 'definitely' list are: clowns, banggai cardinal (any advice on keeping a group or are they better as pairs?), mandarin goby (though I believe these are better when the tank is more established) and a purple tang. Other than that I'm not really sure.

brandon429 · Sep 11, 2024

the risk to your fish was never the cycle here

it is skipping disease preps/fallow and qt. what controls the fish you add is not the cycle, it's the disease protocol selected. that affects species, pre preps, addition timing to the tank all because of the disease plan

no disease plan, wing it? still read the disease forum. fish losses in early 2025 will not be due to a parameter you can test, it'll be the need for fallow and qt.

in my opinion it's not possible to read the disease forum stickies and then think skipping preps in a large tank will work, it won't.

this is not mean it's to help you. your entire post is to determine when you can stock fish so they will stay alive

if we help you stock now, because you're cycled, but they all die in March, that's not help. the hard info is the help

B

*if you had nano reef destined for two clowns and a goby you'd have about 50% chance of no disease then.

but big tanks, destined for mixed fish, to be stocked with hundreds of items from a pet store and each and every one brings in new fish disease for the life of the tank?

.5% survival rate, see the disease thread for this takeaway summary

simply look at page one of the disease forum, read each thread.

go to the thread writer's avatar and select: find all posts

read their first posts on the reef tank...they either skipped disease altogether, or implemented it incompletely.

you can determine the age of the systems asking for help off this analysis, it'll reveal that within 8 mos that's about where most large tanks, new ones recently cycled, get fish losses which are the bulk of Jays disease thread on any given day.

old school cycling does not discuss or even consider fish disease, that's why it's dangerous.

new school cycling is opposite: no concern over ammonia control ability after day ten wait, and 100% concern over fish disease losses which are what kills new fish.

cycling does not kill fish, there aren't threads of that happening recently. but there are 500 recent fish disease threads, in Jay's forum, that's why we readjusted what matters.

as mentioned nitrite has no factor in display tank reefing at all, don't own the kit. it's important for freshwater, but not reef tanks.

reason I said not to own the kit: it presents a distraction away from what really kills fish. that's a neutral param to be giving as much consideration to.